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Davy Fitzgerald Returning To Waterford

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Replying To Dec82andahalf:  "No not at all but they've gone from not winning a game in Munster in those 3 years to contesting 3 Munster finals.

The 3 years post Davy Clare won 6 games in Munster and lost 5 and 2 of those were finals.

2020 Lohan came in and started building the team again, he's bringing through young lads. If your showing form for your club, you'll get your chance. Cian Nolan being an example. Davy played the same 17 or 18 players every year. Peter Duggan never got a look in with Davy, despite being one of the best forwards on the club scene.

I don't expect Clare to be challenging for all irelands every year but I expect them to be competitive and they weren't under Davy."
Clare certainly weren't competitive against Kilkenny this Summer. That was as poor a performance as I can remember from a Clare team. Clare won 4 All Ireland U21 titles 2009-2014. The only senior return was 1 All Ireland with no Munster title at all. That's disappointing. I'm not blaming Davy but it is a disappointing senior return from such underage success. I wish Davy well with the Deise. Most people would love to see Waterford win an All Ireland. I'm not sure Davy's the right fit for Waterford at the moment but time will tell about that. Waterford supporters don't seem in general to be that happy with his appointment so he'll be under pressure from the outset.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2232 - 16/08/2022 15:28:12    2437683

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Replying To Canuck:  "Yes i agree with that. Under age he was great and there were big expectations. Kieran was never expected to make it at senior but improved drastically from his early years. A credit to him. Stephen was late at senior because of repeat hip surgeries. That delay may be helping him now if the hips hold out. The same I think is going on with Gleeson expecting him to fill every weakness. Put him some place (full forward) and let him there."
Losing the 2 Bennetts will be a blow. Waterford despite what people think aren't blessed with a huge depth. They have depth but the drop off is a challenge. Those 2 lads if not starting were very quickly off the bench. That drops the depth again.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1167 - 16/08/2022 15:43:17    2437686

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A few posts here questioning Dec82andahalf.

I think the Clare man is talking sense and truth. A few other comments from my fellow Limerick posters also in that category. I don't think Davy wants any presence in the camp to challenge his authority. This is why he and Kinnerk went in different directions in 2014.

Kiely's management style has allowed Kinnerk to flourish. I think it is that Management style that this Waterford team needs which is why I thought someone from within the county would have worked better.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 16/08/2022 16:20:38    2437691

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Replying To Dec82andahalf:  "No not at all but they've gone from not winning a game in Munster in those 3 years to contesting 3 Munster finals.

The 3 years post Davy Clare won 6 games in Munster and lost 5 and 2 of those were finals.

2020 Lohan came in and started building the team again, he's bringing through young lads. If your showing form for your club, you'll get your chance. Cian Nolan being an example. Davy played the same 17 or 18 players every year. Peter Duggan never got a look in with Davy, despite being one of the best forwards on the club scene.

I don't expect Clare to be challenging for all irelands every year but I expect them to be competitive and they weren't under Davy."
I wish Davy well in Waterford but as well as Duggan we saw nothing of Jamie Shanahan Cathal Malone Seanha Morey in his era panel was left static and slave to the tactics for too long also his treatment of Nicky O Connell & O Halloran of Eire og very badly handled

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 938 - 16/08/2022 16:36:45    2437698

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Replying To munsterchamps:  "the reason clare were so successful for that 3 or 4 year period was paul kinnerk.......winning munster minors, 3 u21s all irelands in a row and the senior all ireland win in 2013 was paul kinnerks coaching ........colin ryan who won the a senior all ireland in 2013 said that paul kinnerk leaving was the biggest loss to clare hurling......gerry o connor who managed clare with donal moloney for the minor and u21 successes stated the kinnerk completely changed clare hurling."
He changed Limerick too he was undoubtedly a huge loss to Clare you see himself & Kiely on the line together all the time talking. J Kiely smarter by far all seem to be able to have their opinion

But I do think Waterford for a couple of years will be a lot better with d Fitz

clooney (Clare) - Posts: 938 - 16/08/2022 16:42:02    2437702

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Why do i get the feeling that if Davy had Brians record at this stage, 3 seasons and an all Ireland semi final wipe out the zenith, you'd be going to town on him?"
I have been critical of Lohan but he's doing most things right and he'll leave the squad in a far better place than Davy. His job was also made far harder than Davys ever was.

Dec82andahalf (Clare) - Posts: 34 - 16/08/2022 16:47:28    2437703

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Replying To endgame:  "Clare certainly weren't competitive against Kilkenny this Summer. That was as poor a performance as I can remember from a Clare team. Clare won 4 All Ireland U21 titles 2009-2014. The only senior return was 1 All Ireland with no Munster title at all. That's disappointing. I'm not blaming Davy but it is a disappointing senior return from such underage success. I wish Davy well with the Deise. Most people would love to see Waterford win an All Ireland. I'm not sure Davy's the right fit for Waterford at the moment but time will tell about that. Waterford supporters don't seem in general to be that happy with his appointment so he'll be under pressure from the outset."
Kilkenny was a disaster and I did mention that here after the game but overall the squad and performances have improved year after year.

It is disappointing and I think it would have been different if Kinnerk was allowed to do his thing.

I can't see Waterford improving under Davy unless he uses a different approach to his tactics. Slayer explained it better than I would of.

Dec82andahalf (Clare) - Posts: 34 - 16/08/2022 16:59:48    2437705

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Replying To daveboy:  "Losing the 2 Bennetts will be a blow. Waterford despite what people think aren't blessed with a huge depth. They have depth but the drop off is a challenge. Those 2 lads if not starting were very quickly off the bench. That drops the depth again."
Yes it does make a difference as they are experienced guys with All-Ireland medals. Even a bigger loss to the little hamlet of Ballysaggart. The cousin Eoin Bennett is no slouch either.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2728 - 16/08/2022 18:09:17    2437715

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Replying To slayer:  "A few posts here questioning Dec82andahalf.

I think the Clare man is talking sense and truth. A few other comments from my fellow Limerick posters also in that category. I don't think Davy wants any presence in the camp to challenge his authority. This is why he and Kinnerk went in different directions in 2014.

Kiely's management style has allowed Kinnerk to flourish. I think it is that Management style that this Waterford team needs which is why I thought someone from within the county would have worked better."
Totally agree. Unity of purpose without hierarchy or personal egos is what is need. I don't care what Cody did. It won't work in Waterford. Or most other places for that matter either. Hopefully Davy has grown in other factions of leadership. Delegating, encouraging and empowering the managing team members. There is an abundance of these skills in Waterford that are professionally trained. Davy's knowledge, enthusiasm and dedication is beyond approach. Hopefully we are getting a more rounded man this time. If not then ignoring our own will have repercussions.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2728 - 16/08/2022 18:33:20    2437720

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Replying To slayer:  "A few posts here questioning Dec82andahalf.

I think the Clare man is talking sense and truth. A few other comments from my fellow Limerick posters also in that category. I don't think Davy wants any presence in the camp to challenge his authority. This is why he and Kinnerk went in different directions in 2014.

Kiely's management style has allowed Kinnerk to flourish. I think it is that Management style that this Waterford team needs which is why I thought someone from within the county would have worked better."
But the fact he's going so hard on Davy, while giving Lohan a reprieve, would suggest he just has a bit of a set on Fitzgerald.
I've nothing against Lohan by the way.
Also, this thing about u21 success, and Davy apparently not building on it, underage success is no guarantee of senior success, however good the manager is.
Take it from a galwayman.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1796 - 16/08/2022 19:09:11    2437724

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Replying To ahsure.:  "How did Clare do before/after him and how did Wexford do before him? (This is a not a put down on Wexford and Clare btw)

When you put it in that context you can see why people think he is a good manager."
Or was Kinnerk's influence in '13 far bigger than he ever got credit or.- some of the players of that year seem to think it was. When you look at what he has achieved with his home county, maybe it was.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4365 - 17/08/2022 07:06:37    2437738

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Replying To ahsure.:  "My point is he won them an all ireland and they have not, realistically, come close since."
Yes, but Clare won four 21 All Ireland's In six years from '09 to '14. Should they have not have won more under Davy?.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4365 - 17/08/2022 07:18:28    2437739

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Replying To Viking66:  "He made some crucial saves in 95 and 97. And he brought Kinnerk in in 2013. Not sure if its true they wouldn't have won those 3 without him though. That Clare team of the mid 90s were excellent and well motivated by Loughnane. And they won 3 u21 AIs in a row in the teens they had some excellent hurlers at that time."
Viking, four in six years actually, so the pool should have been good.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4365 - 17/08/2022 07:22:12    2437740

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Replying To Shocs07:  "Harsh considering he's managed Clare to 25% of their All Ireland wins.."
And had a central role in 75 per cent of them.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4365 - 17/08/2022 07:24:08    2437741

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Replying To Bon:  "I agree with a lot of what you said but to be fair to Davy if he's with you he's 110% behind his team's and backs them to the last and he seems to get fierce loyalty from players under him.
And as he told Waterford players in the past, he has two all ireland medals and they have #### all ."
Dermot Healy, Michael Bond, Cyril Farrell, John Kiely Her Loughnane and Liam Griffin never won All Ireland's and all managed as many and more All Ireland winning teams than Davy. Many great players were poor managers, Mick Mackey among them.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4365 - 17/08/2022 07:30:27    2437742

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Replying To Galway9801:  "But the fact he's going so hard on Davy, while giving Lohan a reprieve, would suggest he just has a bit of a set on Fitzgerald.
I've nothing against Lohan by the way.
Also, this thing about u21 success, and Davy apparently not building on it, underage success is no guarantee of senior success, however good the manager is.
Take it from a galwayman."
U-21 success is indeed no guarantee of senior success, but that 12-13 of the Clare u-21 winners from their four u-21 successes were involved in the 2013 success does suggest that those u-21s were successful at senior level.

That's a relatively high return from u-21 players. Nowhere near the Limerick u-21 team of 2015, where 14 of the starting 15, plus a couple of subs, now all have senior medals.

Limericks under-21s have been managed very well (the 2017 winners also). I don't think Clare managed things too well. 12-13 of those u-21s coming through to win in 2013 was a huge harvest. Where are they now (only 3-4 still involved)? What happened them post-2013?

Galway is different in that the underage players never came through to deliver at senior. In Clare, 12-13 players did in 2013. If they proved themselves at senior level in 2013, why weren't those underage players good enough to go on and win more at senior level? Many factors, I suspect

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2009 - 17/08/2022 19:39:25    2437815

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "U-21 success is indeed no guarantee of senior success, but that 12-13 of the Clare u-21 winners from their four u-21 successes were involved in the 2013 success does suggest that those u-21s were successful at senior level.

That's a relatively high return from u-21 players. Nowhere near the Limerick u-21 team of 2015, where 14 of the starting 15, plus a couple of subs, now all have senior medals.

Limericks under-21s have been managed very well (the 2017 winners also). I don't think Clare managed things too well. 12-13 of those u-21s coming through to win in 2013 was a huge harvest. Where are they now (only 3-4 still involved)? What happened them post-2013?

Galway is different in that the underage players never came through to deliver at senior. In Clare, 12-13 players did in 2013. If they proved themselves at senior level in 2013, why weren't those underage players good enough to go on and win more at senior level? Many factors, I suspect"
I still say that had that clare team won nothing, it wouldn't have raised too many eyebrows.

Clare have won 3 all Irelands in over a hundred years, you cant just come along and expect them to win a load of them. I know limerick have done it but in the history of the GAA it's very rare for a county outside the top 3 to manage that feat, especially when at the same time kilkenny and tipp were fielding arguably their greatest ever teams.

I'm not sure what your point is regarding the clare players post 2013,when you ask what happened to them?

And please, no Chinese proverbs this time :)

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1796 - 18/08/2022 11:54:22    2437873

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I still say that had that clare team won nothing, it wouldn't have raised too many eyebrows.

Clare have won 3 all Irelands in over a hundred years, you cant just come along and expect them to win a load of them. I know limerick have done it but in the history of the GAA it's very rare for a county outside the top 3 to manage that feat, especially when at the same time kilkenny and tipp were fielding arguably their greatest ever teams.

I'm not sure what your point is regarding the clare players post 2013,when you ask what happened to them?

And please, no Chinese proverbs this time :)"
Limerick have done it before. After the big 3 they are by quite a margin the next most successful county.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12830 - 18/08/2022 15:14:10    2437916

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I still say that had that clare team won nothing, it wouldn't have raised too many eyebrows.

Clare have won 3 all Irelands in over a hundred years, you cant just come along and expect them to win a load of them. I know limerick have done it but in the history of the GAA it's very rare for a county outside the top 3 to manage that feat, especially when at the same time kilkenny and tipp were fielding arguably their greatest ever teams.

I'm not sure what your point is regarding the clare players post 2013,when you ask what happened to them?

And please, no Chinese proverbs this time :)"
I believe Clare have won by 4 All Ireland hurling titles. 1915, 1995, 1997, 2013.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1793 - 18/08/2022 15:34:39    2437921

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Replying To Viking66:  "Limerick have done it before. After the big 3 they are by quite a margin the next most successful county."
That's only correct to a point. Before the current Limerick team's 4 All Irelands in 5 years, Limerick had won 7 hurling All Irelands which is just one more than your own Wexford and Dublin. Limerick had a great team in the 1930s that won 3 All Irelands in 7 years but Limerick only won one All Ireland in the following 77 years. The current Limerick side are just a brilliant team . Great players astutely managed. Nothing to do with that famous gaa word tradition.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2232 - 18/08/2022 15:40:29    2437922

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