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Replying To Cumann1: "You're not very familiar with Irish politics.
SF are not far left, Connolly is.
Connolly has never been aligned to SF and isn't now either. She aligned herself with Daly and Wallace.
Yea SF backed her after 4 other parties had done so but you said she was their nominee which she wasn't.
She got on the ballot back in July and had a lot of campaigning done before SF decided to jump on her bandwagon.
Connolly has always acted independently" Maybe to you SF aren't far left but their fondness for Castro, Chavez and now Maduro proves that they are. In your opinion FF FG are Center Right when in reality they're Center Left. Ireland has no true party Right of Center
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 611 - 28/10/2025 14:33:10
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Replying To updwell: "Maybe they are CNN headlines slayer but I don't think any fair minded individual would disagree that the majority of stuff I mentioned is at least worrying and probably strange to see. I'm not left or right, more or less in the middle and I'm not Democrat or Republican. To be honest I find people supporting any political party blindly and regardless of what to do to be strange because parties don't care about individuals. Getting back to Trump I just find the parallels with the 1930s and rise of Fascism to be too coincidental to be comfortable with and it needs to be called out before it's too late." I totally agree in reference to parties. That said, I was a fan of Reagan, however like all politicians he too had questions never answered - eg Lockerbie.
I'm not defending Trump's behaviour and no way would I ever blindly follow any politician. But there are people here (I am one) who think Joe Biden's term in office led to a lot of problems, which led to policy reversal under the new administration. Many on the Republican side felt a huge bias for years, eg with big tech companies. Barack Obama was President for two terms and while a fantastic orator, a pleasant person when visiting, what did his terms achieve? The hope we all felt in January 2009 was gone before his second term began. The Republicans didn't have a credible alternative.
Now the shoe is on the other foot. The Democrats don't have an alternative. Two wrongs don't make a right. But the problem is when one side feels alienated, blamed, not listened to , when they get into power they'll go after their foe. How many district attorneys tried to hunt down Trump under Biden's term?
I think their system is a poor one. While ours is far from perfect and while I think the leaders of FF/FG are arrogant because they've been in government so long, we don't see the swing to the left or right that the USA does. If they change from one party to the other every four years it is a race to make policy change before the mid terms. If they endure eight years of one party it is almost guaranteed the other will win because people are tired of the lack of change.
I am all for free speech so I don't agree with anyone being scared to speak. When people on the right had their social media accounts shut down nobody cared. Now it is happening in reverse and there's outcry. Both are wrong in my opinion, very wrong.
slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6619 - 28/10/2025 14:43:23
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SF are a Socialist Party, their love for communist dictators Castro, Chavez and now Maduro prove this.
SDs while not as left as SF they still are on the far left side of the ledger.
Labour was a far left wing socialist party that swallowed their pride to get into power with FG proving that FG weren't a Center Right party. Labour now is like the Greens inconsequential.
PBPs are a extreme far left Marxist party.
FF like FG now are Left of Center
Aontu I don't think know what they are so it's hard for anyone else to define them. They are a breakaway from SF.
A political party can't be considered Center Right and push laws restricting it's peoples rights. What FF FG did during covid proved this. FF FG position on Climate Change puts them Center Left. FF FG position on emigration puts them Center Left.
FF FG position on abortion puts them Center Left. I can't come up with one thing that would move either to the Center never mind Center Right.
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 611 - 28/10/2025 14:56:23
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Replying To slayer: "I totally agree in reference to parties. That said, I was a fan of Reagan, however like all politicians he too had questions never answered - eg Lockerbie.
I'm not defending Trump's behaviour and no way would I ever blindly follow any politician. But there are people here (I am one) who think Joe Biden's term in office led to a lot of problems, which led to policy reversal under the new administration. Many on the Republican side felt a huge bias for years, eg with big tech companies. Barack Obama was President for two terms and while a fantastic orator, a pleasant person when visiting, what did his terms achieve? The hope we all felt in January 2009 was gone before his second term began. The Republicans didn't have a credible alternative.
Now the shoe is on the other foot. The Democrats don't have an alternative. Two wrongs don't make a right. But the problem is when one side feels alienated, blamed, not listened to , when they get into power they'll go after their foe. How many district attorneys tried to hunt down Trump under Biden's term?
I think their system is a poor one. While ours is far from perfect and while I think the leaders of FF/FG are arrogant because they've been in government so long, we don't see the swing to the left or right that the USA does. If they change from one party to the other every four years it is a race to make policy change before the mid terms. If they endure eight years of one party it is almost guaranteed the other will win because people are tired of the lack of change.
I am all for free speech so I don't agree with anyone being scared to speak. When people on the right had their social media accounts shut down nobody cared. Now it is happening in reverse and there's outcry. Both are wrong in my opinion, very wrong." Obamacare was actually a very brave idea that cost him a lot of support from people in the middle. And Republicans only aim and still their only aim is to get rid of anything that resembles Obamacare. He also tried to properly enforce gun control but of course that was shot down.
He was pretty powerless to enforce a lot of things in his second term as the GOP had control of the Senate. They spent 8 years objecting to any decent idea Obama had.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8602 - 28/10/2025 15:33:44
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Replying To cluichethar: "SF are a Socialist Party, their love for communist dictators Castro, Chavez and now Maduro prove this.
SDs while not as left as SF they still are on the far left side of the ledger.
Labour was a far left wing socialist party that swallowed their pride to get into power with FG proving that FG weren't a Center Right party. Labour now is like the Greens inconsequential.
PBPs are a extreme far left Marxist party.
FF like FG now are Left of Center
Aontu I don't think know what they are so it's hard for anyone else to define them. They are a breakaway from SF.
A political party can't be considered Center Right and push laws restricting it's peoples rights. What FF FG did during covid proved this. FF FG position on Climate Change puts them Center Left. FF FG position on emigration puts them Center Left.
FF FG position on abortion puts them Center Left. I can't come up with one thing that would move either to the Center never mind Center Right." Mis spelling CENTRE as CENTER(sic) ...
Enough said!
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 188 - 28/10/2025 15:34:02
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Obamacare was actually a very brave idea that cost him a lot of support from people in the middle. And Republicans only aim and still their only aim is to get rid of anything that resembles Obamacare. He also tried to properly enforce gun control but of course that was shot down.
He was pretty powerless to enforce a lot of things in his second term as the GOP had control of the Senate. They spent 8 years objecting to any decent idea Obama had." You said you lived in the US so you should know that gun control and gun rights clash a lot. The State of Vermont is a very liberal State yet it has almost no gun control laws and anyone that tries to bring them in gets voted out quickly.
Obama care was brought in as a beginning to National Health. Obama said if you like your doctors you can keep them, that turned out to be a lie. He also said if you like your health insurance now you can keep it also a lie. He said the cost of health care would come down it went up. There was some good aspects of Obama care but there was also some horrible ones.
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 611 - 28/10/2025 17:01:13
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Replying To cluichethar: "You said you lived in the US so you should know that gun control and gun rights clash a lot. The State of Vermont is a very liberal State yet it has almost no gun control laws and anyone that tries to bring them in gets voted out quickly.
Obama care was brought in as a beginning to National Health. Obama said if you like your doctors you can keep them, that turned out to be a lie. He also said if you like your health insurance now you can keep it also a lie. He said the cost of health care would come down it went up. There was some good aspects of Obama care but there was also some horrible ones." 1. I never said gun control wasn't divisive.
2. I never said Obamacare was great all round.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8602 - 28/10/2025 17:08:19
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Replying To cluichethar: "You said you lived in the US so you should know that gun control and gun rights clash a lot. The State of Vermont is a very liberal State yet it has almost no gun control laws and anyone that tries to bring them in gets voted out quickly.
Obama care was brought in as a beginning to National Health. Obama said if you like your doctors you can keep them, that turned out to be a lie. He also said if you like your health insurance now you can keep it also a lie. He said the cost of health care would come down it went up. There was some good aspects of Obama care but there was also some horrible ones." Also your points on Obamacare are like something straight out of Fox News. It wasn't like you stated. It effected different people in different ways. And I saw it first hand. My brother in law is American, a Republican and his health insurance went up and he was absolutely seething. But then people he worked with were delighted as it helped them. There was no easy fix.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8602 - 28/10/2025 17:14:05
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1. I never said gun control wasn't divisive.
2. I never said Obamacare was great for everyone.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8602 - 28/10/2025 17:18:25
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Replying To TheFlaker: "1. I never said gun control wasn't divisive.
2. I never said Obamacare was great for everyone." I never said you did, i was just stating some facts that some might not know.
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 611 - 28/10/2025 17:51:04
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Also your points on Obamacare are like something straight out of Fox News. It wasn't like you stated. It effected different people in different ways. And I saw it first hand. My brother in law is American, a Republican and his health insurance went up and he was absolutely seething. But then people he worked with were delighted as it helped them. There was no easy fix." Now Flacker there's no need for insults, I think I've been very cordial. I could say that all your points are from RTE or CNN or some other leftwing news outlet. Facts are neither right or left they're simply facts and what it stated was fact. The biggest problem with Obama Care was the 30,000 pages it took when all the regulations were added in. Anything more than two pages and the bill should fail. My own primary care physician retired because of all the paperwork he had to do after it passed.
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 611 - 28/10/2025 18:05:20
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Replying To cluichethar: "I never said you did, i was just stating some facts that some might not know." Well my mistake but your post seemed directed to me as someone you thought didn't understand the US even if i lived there.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8602 - 28/10/2025 18:19:04
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Replying To cluichethar: "Now Flacker there's no need for insults, I think I've been very cordial. I could say that all your points are from RTE or CNN or some other leftwing news outlet. Facts are neither right or left they're simply facts and what it stated was fact. The biggest problem with Obama Care was the 30,000 pages it took when all the regulations were added in. Anything more than two pages and the bill should fail. My own primary care physician retired because of all the paperwork he had to do after it passed." Where's the insult? Seriously? You pointed out only negatives about Obamacare ? So yeah Fox News. It's not facts. You absolutely know Obamacare wasn't negative across the board. I know it wasn't positive across the board. I even pointed out a negative with a family member. So you can't say i am some blinded pro Democrat. Because I absolutely am not. Your post was totally negative ignoring the millions who benefited.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8602 - 28/10/2025 18:29:51
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Replying To letsgetgoing: "I certainly am not against a border poll. All I said in my post is that it will be a while before there will be one for various reasons. Answering my post by saying " scaremongering partionist propaganda" is way over the top.
You are fairly new to the Hogan Stand but seem to have an opinion on everything. Maybe you should study people's posts before replying or better still, take a break for while." I was highlighting that there seems to always be an excuse why partition shouldn't be ended by a segment in the south. There has been years of political and media influence in trying to normalise partition or promoting a St Augustine approach, make us reunited but just not yet. A lot down to a well known mustachioed journalist/political agitator who had huge influence in RTE and Indo. When we were a basket case of a country it wasn't suitable, when the economy is thriving it isn't suitable. When there was violence it wasn't suitable, when there's peace it isn't suitable. The north realistically isn't going to improve much more as the big decisions are made by a overwhelmingly English parliament which they have minimal influence on. But they are not in a terrible place economically either.
I'm curious to know when is a person allowed to have more than one topic to have an opinion on? Do we need to submit an application to yourself for approval?
FullOfPorter (Roscommon) - Posts: 435 - 28/10/2025 19:21:42
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Replying To cluichethar: "Maybe to you SF aren't far left but their fondness for Castro, Chavez and now Maduro proves that they are. In your opinion FF FG are Center Right when in reality they're Center Left. Ireland has no true party Right of Center" SFs fondness of those 3 proves nothing. Nobody from SF ever claimed to be far left. Their actions in the Northern Assembly show they aren't far left.
I never claimed FF FG are centre right
Cumann1 (Mayo) - Posts: 108 - 28/10/2025 19:43:55
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Replying To cluichethar: "SF are a Socialist Party, their love for communist dictators Castro, Chavez and now Maduro prove this.
SDs while not as left as SF they still are on the far left side of the ledger.
Labour was a far left wing socialist party that swallowed their pride to get into power with FG proving that FG weren't a Center Right party. Labour now is like the Greens inconsequential.
PBPs are a extreme far left Marxist party.
FF like FG now are Left of Center
Aontu I don't think know what they are so it's hard for anyone else to define them. They are a breakaway from SF.
A political party can't be considered Center Right and push laws restricting it's peoples rights. What FF FG did during covid proved this. FF FG position on Climate Change puts them Center Left. FF FG position on emigration puts them Center Left.
FF FG position on abortion puts them Center Left. I can't come up with one thing that would move either to the Center never mind Center Right." You've changed your tune again. Socialism isn't the same as far left. You said SF are far left
Cumann1 (Mayo) - Posts: 108 - 28/10/2025 19:58:59
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Replying To TheFlaker: "1. I never said gun control wasn't divisive.
2. I never said Obamacare was great for everyone." Why do you even care??
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2553 - 28/10/2025 20:01:50
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Where's the insult? Seriously? You pointed out only negatives about Obamacare ? So yeah Fox News. It's not facts. You absolutely know Obamacare wasn't negative across the board. I know it wasn't positive across the board. I even pointed out a negative with a family member. So you can't say i am some blinded pro Democrat. Because I absolutely am not. Your post was totally negative ignoring the millions who benefited." I said that there was good points and bad points to Obama Care but you choose to ignore that. Your quib about Fox News was used as an insult as if I only get my news from there. For your information I get my information from numerous sources.
What did I say that that wasn't factual?
cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 611 - 28/10/2025 20:46:34
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