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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "When did the Palestinians say they wanted a Muslim theocratic State like Iran, Afghanistan etc"
"The Islamic Resistance Movement "Hamas" is a Palestinian Islamic national liberation and resistance movement. Its goal is to liberate Palestine and confront the Zionist project. Its frame of reference is Islam, which determines its principles, objectives and means."

This is article 1 of the Hamas charter. This is what the people of Gaza voted for. Although like Netanyahu in Israel Hammas didn't get 50% of the vote either.
The West Bank would be different. They are still governed by Fatah, who Hamas wiped out after the last election in 2007.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13038 - 25/05/2024 10:52:18    2546936

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "While I appreciate where your priorities are, that's exactly the attitude that's allowed this country to arrive at the horrific state we now see it."
The feed your family prioritised over the online high moral ground opinion?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7522 - 25/05/2024 11:14:57    2546941

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Ireland should continue humanitarian aid and calls for cease-fire and hostage release in Gaza. Our government did not forward any geographic context for the Palestinian State that they claim to support. What does a 2-State solution look like on paper? Why are we getting involved in a partition plan? Look in the mirror. The Good Friday Belfast Agreement was not respected by Rishi Sunak or Boris Johnson. Most of the 20th century partition plans were temporary bandaids by Brits. They do not consider other peoples as their equals. I fully support the Good Friday Agreement to be clear.
Dublin need to talk to Washington to compare ideas about 2 State solution in middle east. The Americans are reasonable people when push comes to shove. Most people in the world favour a 2 State solution except for Israelis and Palestinians I believe. Reunite Ireland first, then we can become blabber mouths to the world.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1699 - 25/05/2024 11:33:07    2546945

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Replying To Viking66:  "They didn't accept the 2 state plan not because they wanted a bigger State, but because they felt the Jews shouldn't have a state at all. Also most of the Israeli Jewish population aren't European Jews at all, most went back there from various Muslim countries in the Middle East and North Africa. Up or down the problems aren't going to be solved by looking backwards. Both sides have been guilty of atrocities, and both sides do come from that area, or at least a percentage of them do. But neither trust one another. Pretty hard to come up with a solution to that kind of mess."
That's not true. Just shy of 400k Jewish people from Europe and Russia colonised Palestine prior and up to the time Israel was created. Numbers from other Arab countries and Africa were miniscule, around 45k. It was only after Israel was created did numbers pick up from Asia and Africa and even then it was only equal to European migration.

I'd imagine they rejected it because it was after been pulled from right under their feet to make a zionist state. There is nothing radical in having a single state Palestine that contains all creeds. I'd say they were think why does a Jewish state have to be carved out of our country. Why the bloody hell didn't Germany have to give land over for it? Imagine County Wexford was carved out of Ireland to make a Ukrainian state to keep Ukrainians safe because of the actions of Russia. And all Wexford people were forced to give up their land and houses. How would that go down?

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 972 - 25/05/2024 12:05:01    2546947

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Lots of hypocrisy on all sides. Few here ever mention the genocide of the Muslim Uyghurs in China, or indeed the ongoing 70 years of genocide in Tibet. Not to mention the corruption and repression in both of the rival Palestinian states.

On other hand, Israeli response to the Hamas attacks has been completely disproportionate and is clear case of punishing civilian populations. A lot of it is driven by "settlers" from United States who have as much right to take someone's olive grove as I would to turn up mob handed and steal someone's vineyard in France. All based on absurd ancestral claim to land their ancestors left probably a 1,000 years ago.

Given the lunatics on both sides this is unlikely to end well. Especially for the innocent civilians unfortunate enough to be living in hellholes like Rafah. A hellhole no doubt before the bombs, but they hardly improve matters."
It's not olive groves being taken, but patches of stony mountainside desert. The olive groves have needed the Israelis to spend vast sums of money on wells and irrigation. That still doesn't make it right for those patches of desert to be taken though.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13038 - 25/05/2024 12:20:47    2546950

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Replying To Viking66:  ""The Islamic Resistance Movement "Hamas" is a Palestinian Islamic national liberation and resistance movement. Its goal is to liberate Palestine and confront the Zionist project. Its frame of reference is Islam, which determines its principles, objectives and means."

This is article 1 of the Hamas charter. This is what the people of Gaza voted for. Although like Netanyahu in Israel Hammas didn't get 50% of the vote either.
The West Bank would be different. They are still governed by Fatah, who Hamas wiped out after the last election in 2007."
The Palestinians resistance was initially spearheaded by the PLO which was fairly secular left wing. Add to that the first intifada was a grassroots, non religious and lead by academics and students in a lot of cases. With the crushing of secular resistance that paved the way for more religious fundamentalists like Hamas. If you constantly put road blocks and beat down people you force them down the paths of desperation. Israel actually secretly encouraged Hamas as they saw them as a way to weaken the PLO and split the Palestinians. Divide and conquer, the oldest trick of the colonist.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 972 - 25/05/2024 13:02:38    2546956

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "Ireland should continue humanitarian aid and calls for cease-fire and hostage release in Gaza. Our government did not forward any geographic context for the Palestinian State that they claim to support. What does a 2-State solution look like on paper? Why are we getting involved in a partition plan? Look in the mirror. The Good Friday Belfast Agreement was not respected by Rishi Sunak or Boris Johnson. Most of the 20th century partition plans were temporary bandaids by Brits. They do not consider other peoples as their equals. I fully support the Good Friday Agreement to be clear.
Dublin need to talk to Washington to compare ideas about 2 State solution in middle east. The Americans are reasonable people when push comes to shove. Most people in the world favour a 2 State solution except for Israelis and Palestinians I believe. Reunite Ireland first, then we can become blabber mouths to the world."
Who's going to "reunite Ireland"????

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1709 - 25/05/2024 13:31:49    2546962

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "The feed your family prioritised over the online high moral ground opinion?"
You've heard the "I'm alright Jack" concept?

All that's required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2947 - 25/05/2024 14:21:28    2546967

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Who's going to "reunite Ireland"????"
We the people by the ballot box will get the chance some day soon hopefully to reunite Ireland.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2896 - 25/05/2024 14:38:33    2546969

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "You've heard the "I'm alright Jack" concept?

All that's required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2896 - 25/05/2024 14:39:02    2546971

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Who's going to "reunite Ireland"????"
nobody I suppose, that is my whole point. We are trying to create countries for other peoples instead.
Thank God for the GAA.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1699 - 25/05/2024 15:17:46    2546977

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "We the people by the ballot box will get the chance some day soon hopefully to reunite Ireland."
United Ireland is a fairy tale, unionists will never take it lying down

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2005 - 25/05/2024 15:20:08    2546978

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "You've heard the "I'm alright Jack" concept?

All that's required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
You're alright Jack. The Palestinians and Israelis aren't but sure we can boost their morale on Hoganstand with our in depth knowledge of their situation.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7522 - 25/05/2024 16:06:07    2546985

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "You're alright Jack. The Palestinians and Israelis aren't but sure we can boost their morale on Hoganstand with our in depth knowledge of their situation."
I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need the support of others who are too busy looking after themselves to care what happens to you.

Good luck to you.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2947 - 25/05/2024 16:36:49    2546988

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "One trophy and Champions league qualification is a whole lot better than nothing and a mid table finish… Utd are a complete comedy club…."
They won the FA Cup today my good man.

bruffgael (Limerick) - Posts: 175 - 25/05/2024 17:09:05    2546991

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Replying To bruffgael:  "They won the FA Cup today my good man."
They'll be partying like its 1999 so.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2005 - 25/05/2024 17:40:33    2546997

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need the support of others who are too busy looking after themselves to care what happens to you.

Good luck to you."
I'll be comforted to know that some anonymous posters in a forum who haven't a clue about my circumstances can type meaningless opinions.

I know an Israeli man. Lives and works in Ireland more than 8 years and loves it here. Did mandatory service in the army. Wasn't too happy to do it but such is life. Can recognise that Palestinians are getting a raw deal and bears them no malice. He says some Israelis are similar. But they detest Hamas and he that some Palestinians feel that Hamas do not represent them. There's no stats there, just some Israelis and Palestinians. If you lived in a war zone you'd probably be happy to live and work in Dublin too. We have no problems here in comparison.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7522 - 25/05/2024 17:51:41    2547001

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "While I appreciate where your priorities are, that's exactly the attitude that's allowed this country to arrive at the horrific state we now see it."
Bulls)1t lad. What attitude should I have? If I quit my job what difference will that make? Ireland committing economic suicide will not make one bit of difference to what happens in the Middle East.

I wholeheartedly disagree with what Israel are doing. Nothing I can do about it and I don't understand the situation historically out there nor would pretend to.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11331 - 25/05/2024 18:30:15    2547008

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I hope you never find yourself in a situation where you need the support of others who are too busy looking after themselves to care what happens to you.

Good luck to you."
What have you done for them?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11331 - 25/05/2024 18:31:14    2547010

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People will forget what you did for them but they will never forget how you made them feel.

katser (Galway) - Posts: 2394 - 25/05/2024 18:58:27    2547023

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