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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "One trophy and Champions league qualification is a whole lot better than nothing and a mid table finish… Utd are a complete comedy club…."
Yes indeed United are experiencing the same levels of mediocrity that Liverpool did for 30 odd years before klopps arrival.

In all seriousness it was amazing to see them join big clubs like Blackburn and Leicester city with one premier League title. Fantastic achievement that I'm sure Ferguson was in awe of.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2925 - 08/05/2024 12:38:56    2543654

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Replying To Breffni40:  "
Replying To Galway9801:  "[quote=Breffni40:  "All you can do with these discussions is agree to disagree. All they have is subjective stuff about luck and opposition and whatnot, stuff that of course they would never apply to any other team. I mean Galway9801 said, presumably with a straight face, that Ferguson's career achievements were the same as what Benitez nearly achieved in 3 years. There's no middle ground to be achieved in this context."
I didn't say that Breff. I said benitez, in 3 seasons, almost equalled Fergies champions league tally over 20 years, and seeing as how that's a fact, yes, I said it with a straight face.
I'll add this to the list of instances you put words in my mouth."
He didn't equal it though, so how do you twist that to be relevant or factual?

Do you think Benitez had any good fortune in that time? What was the subjective standard of opposition in hindsight? Or is that kinda stuff exclusive to your analysis of United and Ferguson?

Ferguson almost won other Champions Leagues but nobody crows about that to undermine other managers and teams"]You're at it again.
I didn't say he equalled it.
I never said he equalled it.

And Fergie didn't almost win more champions leagues. He reached two other finals and was trounced in both of them.

As for your point about undermining other managers, the only person/team being undermined here are city and guardiola. Myself and others are just challenging those opinions.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1845 - 08/05/2024 12:52:15    2543657

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Yes indeed United are experiencing the same levels of mediocrity that Liverpool did for 30 odd years before klopps arrival.

In all seriousness it was amazing to see them join big clubs like Blackburn and Leicester city with one premier League title. Fantastic achievement that I'm sure Ferguson was in awe of."
Utd were useless for 40 years before Whisky noses arrival and are now back where they belong for the last 10/12 years… mid table mediocrity.., Comedy club…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2215 - 08/05/2024 13:12:51    2543661

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "One trophy and Champions league qualification is a whole lot better than nothing and a mid table finish… Utd are a complete comedy club…."
I must correct you - United could still win the cup.

And I couldn't care less what type of nose Sir Alex has ...... HE IS A LEGEND.

bruffgael (Limerick) - Posts: 171 - 08/05/2024 13:34:43    2543668

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Utd were useless for 40 years before Whisky noses arrival and are now back where they belong for the last 10/12 years… mid table mediocrity.., Comedy club…"
Honestly I don't really care that much, but they're the most successful club England along with Liverpool.... The first to win the champions League, and totally dominated the premier League era for two decades.

I said it earlier but I'll say it again, Ryan Giggs is more successful than most clubs.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2925 - 08/05/2024 13:51:25    2543672

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Replying To Galway9801:  "
Replying To Breffni40:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=Breffni40:  "All you can do with these discussions is agree to disagree. All they have is subjective stuff about luck and opposition and whatnot, stuff that of course they would never apply to any other team. I mean Galway9801 said, presumably with a straight face, that Ferguson's career achievements were the same as what Benitez nearly achieved in 3 years. There's no middle ground to be achieved in this context."
I didn't say that Breff. I said benitez, in 3 seasons, almost equalled Fergies champions league tally over 20 years, and seeing as how that's a fact, yes, I said it with a straight face.
I'll add this to the list of instances you put words in my mouth."
He didn't equal it though, so how do you twist that to be relevant or factual?

Do you think Benitez had any good fortune in that time? What was the subjective standard of opposition in hindsight? Or is that kinda stuff exclusive to your analysis of United and Ferguson?

Ferguson almost won other Champions Leagues but nobody crows about that to undermine other managers and teams"]You're at it again.
I didn't say he equalled it.
I never said he equalled it.

And Fergie didn't almost win more champions leagues. He reached two other finals and was trounced in both of them.

As for your point about undermining other managers, the only person/team being undermined here are city and guardiola. Myself and others are just challenging those opinions."]What exactly are you saying then?

Ferguson nearly won others just the same as Benitez nearly did. One is fact the others are trouncings. This is all your own logic not mine. Just be consistent in your analysis or don't bother

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12145 - 08/05/2024 13:53:44    2543676

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Between 2008 and 2011 Alex Ferguson nearly won 3 champions leagues, equalling Pep Guardiola's record with Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Manchester City

Does this help to show how ridiculous you sound talking about Benitez? You've insisted this is a fact too

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12145 - 08/05/2024 15:12:49    2543691

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Yes indeed United are experiencing the same levels of mediocrity that Liverpool did for 30 odd years before klopps arrival.

In all seriousness it was amazing to see them join big clubs like Blackburn and Leicester city with one premier League title. Fantastic achievement that I'm sure Ferguson was in awe of."
1 more than Utd managed in the 25 years between 67 and 93?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12948 - 08/05/2024 15:21:53    2543692

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Replying To bruffgael:  "I must correct you - United could still win the cup.

And I couldn't care less what type of nose Sir Alex has ...... HE IS A LEGEND."
They might win the cup if City don't turn up … The pure miserableness of Whiskey nose led to the Glazers purchasing Utd whose fans now despise despite spending more money than any other club in the world… how ironic.. When Ten Bob said Utd were the most entertaining team in the league he wasn't wrong…. everybody is laughing at them and him.. Comedy Club

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 2215 - 08/05/2024 16:12:24    2543701

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "Utd were useless for 40 years before Whisky noses arrival and are now back where they belong for the last 10/12 years… mid table mediocrity.., Comedy club…"
Sure Liverpool were the same before the 70s. Two great decades and then back to mediocrity until recently. I don't know where you got 40 years from as Busbys last trophy was 68 and the start of Fergies trophy binge was 1990.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 959 - 08/05/2024 16:25:39    2543709

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Replying To Breffni40:  "
Replying To Galway9801:  "[quote=Breffni40:  "[quote=Galway9801:  "[quote=Breffni40:  "All you can do with these discussions is agree to disagree. All they have is subjective stuff about luck and opposition and whatnot, stuff that of course they would never apply to any other team. I mean Galway9801 said, presumably with a straight face, that Ferguson's career achievements were the same as what Benitez nearly achieved in 3 years. There's no middle ground to be achieved in this context."
I didn't say that Breff. I said benitez, in 3 seasons, almost equalled Fergies champions league tally over 20 years, and seeing as how that's a fact, yes, I said it with a straight face.
I'll add this to the list of instances you put words in my mouth."
He didn't equal it though, so how do you twist that to be relevant or factual?

Do you think Benitez had any good fortune in that time? What was the subjective standard of opposition in hindsight? Or is that kinda stuff exclusive to your analysis of United and Ferguson?

Ferguson almost won other Champions Leagues but nobody crows about that to undermine other managers and teams"]You're at it again.
I didn't say he equalled it.
I never said he equalled it.

And Fergie didn't almost win more champions leagues. He reached two other finals and was trounced in both of them.

As for your point about undermining other managers, the only person/team being undermined here are city and guardiola. Myself and others are just challenging those opinions."]What exactly are you saying then?

Ferguson nearly won others just the same as Benitez nearly did. One is fact the others are trouncings. This is all your own logic not mine. Just be consistent in your analysis or don't bother"]Well you've managed to reply to a post of mine without wrongly putting words in my mouth. I guess that's progress.

I am being consistent in my analysis. Those two finals utd lost were to a vastly superior team who united simply weren't going to beat. They weren't good enough, and I'm sure Ferguson and his players would admit that themselves. Sure they reached the final, but the trophy was still realistically out of reach for them.
Liverpool on the other hand were arguably the better team than Milan in 07, they were at the very least competitive with them.
That's where my logic is.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1845 - 08/05/2024 17:53:14    2543719

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Replying To Breffni40:  "Between 2008 and 2011 Alex Ferguson nearly won 3 champions leagues, equalling Pep Guardiola's record with Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Manchester City

Does this help to show how ridiculous you sound talking about Benitez? You've insisted this is a fact too"
As I said in an above post he didn't nearly win 3 champions leagues, he reached three finals, won one with some fortune, and lost the other two to a team who would have beaten them 100 times out of a 100.
Sure they reached the showpiece event, but they weren't ever gonna win it.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1845 - 08/05/2024 17:57:05    2543720

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "They might win the cup if City don't turn up … The pure miserableness of Whiskey nose led to the Glazers purchasing Utd whose fans now despise despite spending more money than any other club in the world… how ironic.. When Ten Bob said Utd were the most entertaining team in the league he wasn't wrong…. everybody is laughing at them and him.. Comedy Club"
Proves my observations about Liverpool supporters whare correct!

bruffgael (Limerick) - Posts: 171 - 08/05/2024 19:31:47    2543729

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Replying To Viking66:  "1 more than Utd managed in the 25 years between 67 and 93?"
United won 13 .... YES 13!!!! Titles between 1990 and 2013.

Liverpool didn't win one from 1990 until 2020.

A mathematics lesson is what you need.

bruffgael (Limerick) - Posts: 171 - 08/05/2024 19:33:58    2543731

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Replying To bruffgael:  "United won 13 .... YES 13!!!! Titles between 1990 and 2013.

Liverpool didn't win one from 1990 until 2020.

A mathematics lesson is what you need."
I never said they won anything between 90 and 2013. Only that they won none between 67 and 93. They had a great team in the 90s and noughties, but I still don't like them, any more than I like Liverpool.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12948 - 09/05/2024 07:06:22    2543752

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Replying To Galway9801:  "As I said in an above post he didn't nearly win 3 champions leagues, he reached three finals, won one with some fortune, and lost the other two to a team who would have beaten them 100 times out of a 100.
Sure they reached the showpiece event, but they weren't ever gonna win it."
So you don't see how stupid your comparison is and where you are adding subjective opinions to objective realities to form what you consider facts?

Stop crying about me putting words in your mouth too. I haven't. You just haven't articulated your nonsense and doubled down on it when challenged

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12145 - 09/05/2024 09:00:57    2543774

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It's clear you're absolutely incapable of understanding the difference between facts, opinions and hypotheticals unless they suit your groundbreaking analysis

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12145 - 09/05/2024 09:03:09    2543776

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What do people get from "supporting" a team they have no connection to other than I led them when I was kid.

I support Luton Town because I was born and brought up there, I work with 2 Brummies who are all big Villa fans and a Blackburn fan from Blackburn.

Me supporting Chelsea, Utd or Liverpool is the same as buying a Rolling Stones album and saying I'm in the band, or buying a Google scarf.

Funny to think that 15/16 year olds have no memory of utd ever being successful.

dolfos (Longford) - Posts: 117 - 09/05/2024 10:43:32    2543798

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Replying To dolfos:  "What do people get from "supporting" a team they have no connection to other than I led them when I was kid.

I support Luton Town because I was born and brought up there, I work with 2 Brummies who are all big Villa fans and a Blackburn fan from Blackburn.

Me supporting Chelsea, Utd or Liverpool is the same as buying a Rolling Stones album and saying I'm in the band, or buying a Google scarf.

Funny to think that 15/16 year olds have no memory of utd ever being successful."
So do you have to grow up in Brooklyn New York to be a fan of Mike Tyson too? Buying a Rolling Stones album and saying you're in the band isn't what sports fans do with the team/athletes they support either, is it? I don't hear any fans saying they're available for selection when they follow their team. Just like music, if you like an artist you want to go and see them live. What's the big deal? Why does someone elses passions annoy you and others so much?

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2436 - 09/05/2024 12:23:12    2543815

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Replying To Galway9801:  "As I said in an above post he didn't nearly win 3 champions leagues, he reached three finals, won one with some fortune, and lost the other two to a team who would have beaten them 100 times out of a 100.
Sure they reached the showpiece event, but they weren't ever gonna win it."
Manchester United were actually slight favourites going into the 2009 final, thus "100 times out of 100" and "weren't ever gonna win it" may be stretching it.....

streaker (Galway) - Posts: 499 - 09/05/2024 12:28:35    2543818

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