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Kerry GAA thread

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Mick, I think you misspelt Dublin GAA Anxiety in the thread title when you started this thread! ;)"
No the thread should have been spelt dublin gaa honesty.

You're crying out for fairness over on the special Congress thread but you ignore the blatant unfairness of dublin getting 10 times more money than yer nearest rivals, you have no problem with dublin playing all yer games in Croke Park and having reffs that live and work in dublin reffing yer games.

Hypocrisy, but sure that's the dublin way.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 25/10/2021 11:52:35    2387269

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Finances are a matter of public record, let's look at the GAA distribution in 2021:

Kerry received 508k in total distribution for a population of 147k = 3.5 euro per head.

Dublin received 1.138 mill total distribution for a population of 1.388 million = 81 cent per head

Source: Page: 142, GAA Annual Report https://res.cloudinary.com/dvrbaruzq/image/upload/fl_attachment/pnbljbbprsadeyepwsxh.pdf

We're here to help with any of our esteemed fellow members Dublin anxiety issues, it's our way!

Mise le Meas,

Theusername

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4269 - 25/10/2021 12:51:04    2387280

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Finances are a matter of public record, let's look at the GAA distribution in 2021:

Kerry received 508k in total distribution for a population of 147k = 3.5 euro per head.

Dublin received 1.138 mill total distribution for a population of 1.388 million = 81 cent per head

Source: Page: 142, GAA Annual Report https://res.cloudinary.com/dvrbaruzq/image/upload/fl_attachment/pnbljbbprsadeyepwsxh.pdf

We're here to help with any of our esteemed fellow members Dublin anxiety issues, it's our way!

Mise le Meas,

Theusername"
Wow! Kerry got over half a million in funding? That's amazing! Btw, how much did Limerick, the AI hurling champions get?

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1195 - 25/10/2021 14:07:03    2387294

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Wow! Kerry got over half a million in funding? That's amazing! Btw, how much did Limerick, the AI hurling champions get?"
Figures are for financial year 2020 Forever, 2021 are out in the next few weeks,, Limericks total distribution was 451k.

An important Caveat is that every county also have a second central revenue stream from GAA administration. This comes from the provincial council. The only County that doesn't receive this is Dublin.

For example in addition to the headline Kerry and Limerick figures I posted they divy up an additional 356.574k amongst the 6 counties in Munster so Kerry and Limerick will get 1/6th of that on top of the headline figures I posted. Same in the other provinces to, with Dublin the exception.

Kerry's total distribution in 2019 was 1.24 million, second only to Dublin in the country and again they are only second in the country to Dublin in 2020, despite Dublin winning in 2020 and Kerry getting knocked out in Rd1 against Cork.

I think whatever your feeling on the amount of Dublin funding, it's clear Dublin have to make it go further with a massive population of well over a million people as I illustrate the breakdown above pro Raya. Kerry are pulling funding figures from central funds north of a million in distribution in a normal year for a population of 140k.

To be honest I think the GAA wanted to pump them to compete with Dublin for all the historical profile that goes with that fixture.

Just to be clear I wouldn't begrudge Kerry, that funding, that wouldn't be our way, they have been really successful at underage so obviously have plans and structures in place, so fair play and a lot to admire, I'm just adding factual context to some of naked comments and fear and anxiety displayed in some of the posts.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4269 - 25/10/2021 16:01:39    2387313

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Figures are for financial year 2020 Forever, 2021 are out in the next few weeks,, Limericks total distribution was 451k.

An important Caveat is that every county also have a second central revenue stream from GAA administration. This comes from the provincial council. The only County that doesn't receive this is Dublin.

For example in addition to the headline Kerry and Limerick figures I posted they divy up an additional 356.574k amongst the 6 counties in Munster so Kerry and Limerick will get 1/6th of that on top of the headline figures I posted. Same in the other provinces to, with Dublin the exception.

Kerry's total distribution in 2019 was 1.24 million, second only to Dublin in the country and again they are only second in the country to Dublin in 2020, despite Dublin winning in 2020 and Kerry getting knocked out in Rd1 against Cork.

I think whatever your feeling on the amount of Dublin funding, it's clear Dublin have to make it go further with a massive population of well over a million people as I illustrate the breakdown above pro Raya. Kerry are pulling funding figures from central funds north of a million in distribution in a normal year for a population of 140k.

To be honest I think the GAA wanted to pump them to compete with Dublin for all the historical profile that goes with that fixture.

Just to be clear I wouldn't begrudge Kerry, that funding, that wouldn't be our way, they have been really successful at underage so obviously have plans and structures in place, so fair play and a lot to admire, I'm just adding factual context to some of naked comments and fear and anxiety displayed in some of the posts."
Wow! Thanks for the detailed and informative breakdown, username. It is good to know stuff like this.

And one more thing, as Columbo might say, this is all funding outside of what the sponsors like Kerry Group, SuperMacs, AIG, or Super JP, provide to their respective counties. I know that JP is great for Limk, and that for years out of mind that Kerry Co-op or whatever it's current name is has left no stone unturned in its sponsorship of Kerry football (this is what I was referring to in my original post on this topic).

In the end of the day, I suppose money is hugely important, but as my late father would say: " An ounce of breeding, bates a tonne of feeding!" Just look at all that Dublin team whose fathers also won AI medals. Money can never buy that…quality!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1195 - 25/10/2021 16:46:05    2387318

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Wow! Thanks for the detailed and informative breakdown, username. It is good to know stuff like this.

And one more thing, as Columbo might say, this is all funding outside of what the sponsors like Kerry Group, SuperMacs, AIG, or Super JP, provide to their respective counties. I know that JP is great for Limk, and that for years out of mind that Kerry Co-op or whatever it's current name is has left no stone unturned in its sponsorship of Kerry football (this is what I was referring to in my original post on this topic).

In the end of the day, I suppose money is hugely important, but as my late father would say: " An ounce of breeding, bates a tonne of feeding!" Just look at all that Dublin team whose fathers also won AI medals. Money can never buy that…quality!"
I think it's a sad truth a chara, that you need that level of finance to compete at the table now Forever. When you look at the teams competing at the top table they are the ones who can raise the most in commercial revenue, fundraising etc.

Away from proposal B, perhaps the GAA need to look at a model of decreasing their distribution of central funds based on some kind of formula depending on commercial revenue, if Dublin get an extra 1 mill in Sponsorship hypothetically their central fund allocation should be cut and redistributed to say Leitrim or Louth. That would be the principal very hard to do, as would be a race to the bottom in practice. But I do think a fairer model or perhaps a clearer model should be there. Presently there is no rhyme or reason, you are actually better of say being Leitrim or Monaghan as opposed to say Down, the GAA actually compensate both for low populations and if you look at their funding per head of population they are some of the highest - as with most things in life it's the squeezed middle who get the raw deal, the Downs or Donegal's of the world. The Dublin, Mayos, Kerry's, Corks, Tyrone are commercial behemoths.

Actually one thing I'm always curious about in allocation of central funds is, take Kerry, Donegal and Mayo - they are counties of a similar profile in terms of mass, distance from Croke Park and population as well as relative recent success (say last ten years) there is actually are disparity to what each are allocated in central funds, Kerry coming out every year with more, when actually Donegal should if you took into account commercial revenue should get more - no rhyme or reason to it. When you actually take Dublin out of the equation, given it's unique status, the allocation of central funds is a fascinating topic as are the reasons or lack there off.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4269 - 25/10/2021 18:17:37    2387323

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Wow! Thanks for the detailed and informative breakdown, username. It is good to know stuff like this.

And one more thing, as Columbo might say, this is all funding outside of what the sponsors like Kerry Group, SuperMacs, AIG, or Super JP, provide to their respective counties. I know that JP is great for Limk, and that for years out of mind that Kerry Co-op or whatever it's current name is has left no stone unturned in its sponsorship of Kerry football (this is what I was referring to in my original post on this topic).

In the end of the day, I suppose money is hugely important, but as my late father would say: " An ounce of breeding, bates a tonne of feeding!" Just look at all that Dublin team whose fathers also won AI medals. Money can never buy that…quality!"
You might find this interesting Forever seeing we are talking about central funding and commercial revenue.

In 2019 the last normal year before Covid, Kerry made more in revenue then Dublin. Which is stark fact often not known or mentioned by the more shall we say "anxious" posters.

2019 Total County Board Revenue:

Kerry: 6.14 million

Dublin: 5.24 million

Sources:

Kerry: https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/record-income-of-61m-helps-kerry-to-a-profit-despite-14m-spend-on-teams-38752612.html

Dublin: https://www.otbsports.com/sport/dublin-gaa-commercial-revenues-pass-e2m-mark-2019-937524

The problem with the funding debate, is people don't understand the complex nature of GAA funding or the hybrid approach of central and commercial funding. Even reading the tone of two articles, the one about Dublin is very accusatory, while Kerry's (who made more money) is by the by.

One thing you learn when you learn when you've gone 16 years to win an All Ireland, then go into to win a six in a row, is need you need braid shoulders when you are loosening, but broader shoulders when your winning. ;)

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4269 - 25/10/2021 18:37:16    2387325

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Figures are for financial year 2020 Forever, 2021 are out in the next few weeks,, Limericks total distribution was 451k.

An important Caveat is that every county also have a second central revenue stream from GAA administration. This comes from the provincial council. The only County that doesn't receive this is Dublin.

For example in addition to the headline Kerry and Limerick figures I posted they divy up an additional 356.574k amongst the 6 counties in Munster so Kerry and Limerick will get 1/6th of that on top of the headline figures I posted. Same in the other provinces to, with Dublin the exception.

Kerry's total distribution in 2019 was 1.24 million, second only to Dublin in the country and again they are only second in the country to Dublin in 2020, despite Dublin winning in 2020 and Kerry getting knocked out in Rd1 against Cork.

I think whatever your feeling on the amount of Dublin funding, it's clear Dublin have to make it go further with a massive population of well over a million people as I illustrate the breakdown above pro Raya. Kerry are pulling funding figures from central funds north of a million in distribution in a normal year for a population of 140k.

To be honest I think the GAA wanted to pump them to compete with Dublin for all the historical profile that goes with that fixture.

Just to be clear I wouldn't begrudge Kerry, that funding, that wouldn't be our way, they have been really successful at underage so obviously have plans and structures in place, so fair play and a lot to admire, I'm just adding factual context to some of naked comments and fear and anxiety displayed in some of the posts."
While I hate the money argument as I have stated on numerous occasionsthat Kerry don't have money problems they definately are not nearly as high as Dublin with gaa funding.Kerry s main money comes from Kerry group and fundraising. John Connellan (Westmeath) challenged the gaa on Dublin's funding and an agreement was come to to reduce Dublin's funding in 2020.Figures released by Pat Ryan showed a large decrease for Dublin. However when John Co nellean asked to see the figures it appears there was an error and Dublin received 14 times more than the figure reported.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2931 - 25/10/2021 19:31:45    2387334

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Sorry meant Pat Teahan

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2931 - 25/10/2021 19:33:36    2387335

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "While I hate the money argument as I have stated on numerous occasionsthat Kerry don't have money problems they definately are not nearly as high as Dublin with gaa funding.Kerry s main money comes from Kerry group and fundraising. John Connellan (Westmeath) challenged the gaa on Dublin's funding and an agreement was come to to reduce Dublin's funding in 2020.Figures released by Pat Ryan showed a large decrease for Dublin. However when John Co nellean asked to see the figures it appears there was an error and Dublin received 14 times more than the figure reported."
But often the problem with the debate Mick is a comparison is like for like. If Dublin is getting say 14 times more funding then Kerry (its not) look at the figures above Kerry are getting about 50% less. Clearly Dublin and Kerry are very different, Kerry are sharing 500k amongst 147k people, Dublin are sharing 1.1 mill amongst 1.3 mill people. Dublin would need to be getting North of 3 million to be at the same pro rata rate as Kerry.

Its very simple if you have 10 apples and you are sharing then amongst three people you are in a better position then if you have a 100 apples and you are sharing them amongst 130 people. That's the equation as it relates to the funding. ive yet to see a compelling argument that a smokeing gun in regard to Dublin's funding and ive looked into it in detail. The above figures are even a bad year that's why i shared 2019 too, Kerry earned more in revenue then Dublin the last normal year pre Covid and that revenue is going around fewer in Kerry than Dublin.

Again i have no issue with any of that and more power to Kerry, if its used for the game fair play, i wouldn't begrudge it. Im just fleshing out and factualising some of the wilder comments.

Dublin funding has been cut every year since 2011, which is pretty unprecedented, generally funding increased centrally when a team is successful.

I'm generally happy for anyone to pull about the figures i posted and im very open minded on the debate. We have advantages like Croke Park, id acknowledge - we defo need to play more games outside of it, in the interests of fairness. But ive yet to see a convincing argument on the funding, especially if you put into the mix of other county finances which i did with Kerry above, to be honest you could do same with Mayo, who are incredible commercially to.

I think the bauld John has a point in regard to Leinster, how can WestMeath compete with Dublins overall funding, they cant and their is an unfairness to that. Equally i know his focus is on Leinster. But the same point apply across the provinces, how can Waterford compete with Kerry funding - its the same thing they cant. If the same principal applies to Dublin and Westmeath, then it should apply to Kerry and Waterford and Mayo and Sligo etc. Its why we plan B was the route to go tiers have been created based on resources, both natural and commercial and they are only going to get wider realistically. Id also say i think the bauld John is in it for a bit of free publicity too. But again i think it shows the need for a formula for central funding allocation Vs commercial revenue as close to the spirit of fairness we can get.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4269 - 26/10/2021 10:43:44    2387383

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Replying To TheUsername:  "But often the problem with the debate Mick is a comparison is like for like. If Dublin is getting say 14 times more funding then Kerry (its not) look at the figures above Kerry are getting about 50% less. Clearly Dublin and Kerry are very different, Kerry are sharing 500k amongst 147k people, Dublin are sharing 1.1 mill amongst 1.3 mill people. Dublin would need to be getting North of 3 million to be at the same pro rata rate as Kerry.

Its very simple if you have 10 apples and you are sharing then amongst three people you are in a better position then if you have a 100 apples and you are sharing them amongst 130 people. That's the equation as it relates to the funding. ive yet to see a compelling argument that a smokeing gun in regard to Dublin's funding and ive looked into it in detail. The above figures are even a bad year that's why i shared 2019 too, Kerry earned more in revenue then Dublin the last normal year pre Covid and that revenue is going around fewer in Kerry than Dublin.

Again i have no issue with any of that and more power to Kerry, if its used for the game fair play, i wouldn't begrudge it. Im just fleshing out and factualising some of the wilder comments.

Dublin funding has been cut every year since 2011, which is pretty unprecedented, generally funding increased centrally when a team is successful.

I'm generally happy for anyone to pull about the figures i posted and im very open minded on the debate. We have advantages like Croke Park, id acknowledge - we defo need to play more games outside of it, in the interests of fairness. But ive yet to see a convincing argument on the funding, especially if you put into the mix of other county finances which i did with Kerry above, to be honest you could do same with Mayo, who are incredible commercially to.

I think the bauld John has a point in regard to Leinster, how can WestMeath compete with Dublins overall funding, they cant and their is an unfairness to that. Equally i know his focus is on Leinster. But the same point apply across the provinces, how can Waterford compete with Kerry funding - its the same thing they cant. If the same principal applies to Dublin and Westmeath, then it should apply to Kerry and Waterford and Mayo and Sligo etc. Its why we plan B was the route to go tiers have been created based on resources, both natural and commercial and they are only going to get wider realistically. Id also say i think the bauld John is in it for a bit of free publicity too. But again i think it shows the need for a formula for central funding allocation Vs commercial revenue as close to the spirit of fairness we can get."
Of course Username the population comes into it but the figures between 2007 and 2017 were done per register player and Dublin were getting 271e per regisyed player. Mayo were 2nd with 22e per registered player and Kerry were getting 19e per registered player. Leitrim 13e and that for me is the biggest wrong. Its the lower counties that should get the bulk of funding as the big counties have plenty anyway.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2931 - 26/10/2021 13:25:17    2387438

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Of course Username the population comes into it but the figures between 2007 and 2017 were done per register player and Dublin were getting 271e per regisyed player. Mayo were 2nd with 22e per registered player and Kerry were getting 19e per registered player. Leitrim 13e and that for me is the biggest wrong. Its the lower counties that should get the bulk of funding as the big counties have plenty anyway."
Those figures aren't reliable Mick they were done by Shane Mangan as part of a student Thesis in Tallaght I.T.

For one thing, they dont take into account the provincial funding by councils for Games development, but took into account Dublin Irish Sports council grant - thats not comparing like with like. Nor did they take into account total distribution. That changes Shane's figures considerably even with a registered player lense.

The second is that registered players isnt the right metric - why would registered players need to be attracted to participation gailec games, they are already members so shouldn't be the focus of Games development funds.

The third think actually highlight the need for funding in Dublin, 38k registered players in Dublin out of a population of 1.3 million - its very clear Dublin need to something on participation and attracting kids the Gaelic games.

In all honesty, i think per head of population, or registered players are the wrong variable to analyze both are crude and not really indictive of a fair method on how finance should be distributed, id love the GAA to come on their rationale.

Id be very critical of DCB in terms of realising participation rates around the county, but we have some big problems you dont get elsewhere in terms of participation, like land and providing playing pitches. Im actually not so sure our games development money is being well spent - apart from wonderful growth amongst young girls and women - that's been the real success story - im sure you see yours're locally. I dont think there has been much growth in participation of men if im being honest, certainly in growth spots like West Dublin, were soccer has been cultivated.

Ranelagh Gaels are getting a scorching at the moment up here for playing n Dartry Public Park - residents are up in arms.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4269 - 26/10/2021 14:42:01    2387457

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Those figures aren't reliable Mick they were done by Shane Mangan as part of a student Thesis in Tallaght I.T.

For one thing, they dont take into account the provincial funding by councils for Games development, but took into account Dublin Irish Sports council grant - thats not comparing like with like. Nor did they take into account total distribution. That changes Shane's figures considerably even with a registered player lense.

The second is that registered players isnt the right metric - why would registered players need to be attracted to participation gailec games, they are already members so shouldn't be the focus of Games development funds.

The third think actually highlight the need for funding in Dublin, 38k registered players in Dublin out of a population of 1.3 million - its very clear Dublin need to something on participation and attracting kids the Gaelic games.

In all honesty, i think per head of population, or registered players are the wrong variable to analyze both are crude and not really indictive of a fair method on how finance should be distributed, id love the GAA to come on their rationale.

Id be very critical of DCB in terms of realising participation rates around the county, but we have some big problems you dont get elsewhere in terms of participation, like land and providing playing pitches. Im actually not so sure our games development money is being well spent - apart from wonderful growth amongst young girls and women - that's been the real success story - im sure you see yours're locally. I dont think there has been much growth in participation of men if im being honest, certainly in growth spots like West Dublin, were soccer has been cultivated.

Ranelagh Gaels are getting a scorching at the moment up here for playing n Dartry Public Park - residents are up in arms."
Look you certainly have a point Username but I really feel the gaa hierarchy need to make sure the weaker counties are looked after so they can play their best players without being out of pocket. Yes in Dublin young girls are taking to the gaa big time but I'm told that there s nearly always a big drop off with girls when they hit late teens. I read about Ranelagh gaels alright recently.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 2931 - 26/10/2021 16:38:49    2387478

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Replying To TheUsername:  "I think it's a sad truth a chara, that you need that level of finance to compete at the table now Forever. When you look at the teams competing at the top table they are the ones who can raise the most in commercial revenue, fundraising etc.

Away from proposal B, perhaps the GAA need to look at a model of decreasing their distribution of central funds based on some kind of formula depending on commercial revenue, if Dublin get an extra 1 mill in Sponsorship hypothetically their central fund allocation should be cut and redistributed to say Leitrim or Louth. That would be the principal very hard to do, as would be a race to the bottom in practice. But I do think a fairer model or perhaps a clearer model should be there. Presently there is no rhyme or reason, you are actually better of say being Leitrim or Monaghan as opposed to say Down, the GAA actually compensate both for low populations and if you look at their funding per head of population they are some of the highest - as with most things in life it's the squeezed middle who get the raw deal, the Downs or Donegal's of the world. The Dublin, Mayos, Kerry's, Corks, Tyrone are commercial behemoths.

Actually one thing I'm always curious about in allocation of central funds is, take Kerry, Donegal and Mayo - they are counties of a similar profile in terms of mass, distance from Croke Park and population as well as relative recent success (say last ten years) there is actually are disparity to what each are allocated in central funds, Kerry coming out every year with more, when actually Donegal should if you took into account commercial revenue should get more - no rhyme or reason to it. When you actually take Dublin out of the equation, given it's unique status, the allocation of central funds is a fascinating topic as are the reasons or lack there off."
The Kerrys Corks Donegals and Mayos don't get a gaurenteed 1 million euro every year from the irish sports Council where dublin Bertie got it written into law so it couldn't be removed when he was gone.

When you think of the money the dublin county board are spending buying up land (9 million euro at the spawell where the actually have paying tennants and receives €500,000 a year in rent) and was it ( 15 million spent buying a golf course at Holly'stown?) you'd wonder why are they still taking tax payers money and gaa development grant money when they are obviously self sufficient now.

Like Mick said the gaa hiding how much dublin are getting and giving 2 different sets of figures don't look great either.

John Connellan is looking into dublins money issues, so hopefully he'll give us a clearer vission of what's really going on, maybe primtime will need to do another show about dublin gaa's finance in the near future.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 26/10/2021 16:42:24    2387480

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "No the thread should have been spelt dublin gaa honesty.

You're crying out for fairness over on the special Congress thread but you ignore the blatant unfairness of dublin getting 10 times more money than yer nearest rivals, you have no problem with dublin playing all yer games in Croke Park and having reffs that live and work in dublin reffing yer games.

Hypocrisy, but sure that's the dublin way."
Whinging , but sure thats the kerry way

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2818 - 26/10/2021 17:33:22    2387491

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Nice bit of history being created here. I don't reckon that I saw Collins play, but I saw all these other Stacks men live, either for club or county or both. What years did Mikey Collins play?

https://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/320941

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1195 - 29/10/2021 15:54:31    2387840

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Austin Stacks beat East Kerry this evening in Tralee 1:07-1:05 also Kerins O'Rahillys beat St Kierans, South Kerry beat Feale Rangers, and the Legion beat Spa.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 30/10/2021 21:54:52    2387924

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Dingle beat mid Kerry, Crokes beat West Kerry, Templenoe beat Shannon rangers and St Brendans beat Kenmare in today's county championships games.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 31/10/2021 19:05:34    2388001

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Crokes will win it out handy enough .

kerry4sam21 (Kerry) - Posts: 103 - 01/11/2021 18:15:14    2388103

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Replying To kerry4sam21:  "Crokes will win it out handy enough ."
Ya theyre getting the luck of the draw for sure, they had West Kerry last weekend and Templenoe (minus the 2 Spillanes) this weekend so they're in a semifinal without breaking a sweat.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 02/11/2021 10:49:33    2388134

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