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Tradition

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It seems the original topic "Tradition - When did the tradition of the bishop throwing in the ball at the start of a game cease", has turned in to a slanging match between secularism and religion. Give it enough time and it will end up a slanging match between Dublin and Kerry, as most topics on here eventually do.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2775 - 14/01/2021 20:03:10    2327467

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Replying To Greengrass:  ""They" for a start are the chattering class commentariat who populate our media. Don't kid yourself MesAmis. They wield very significant power in this country. They are every bit as intolerant as the Church was. There is no doubt that this country is infinitely more socially inclusive than it used to be but then that can also be said of other societies in Europe including our neighbours across the water. However, as has already been pointed out to you if someone voices an opinion contrary to the consensus in this country they can now find themselves the subject of a vicious backlash from the so called liberal consensus. People of faith and their faith itself are now very regularly sneered at. How often have you seen the terms like "the fairy in the sky" used to describe faith. In relation to abuse the vast bulk of abuse was and continues to be perpetrated by lay people. What was done by the clergy was beyond description in terms of horrific cruelty but it was only the tip of the iceberg."
The chattering classes?

What actual power do these chattering people have?

People see the Woke Bogeyman everywhere they go but there's rarely any substance to their claims.

If you've got faith then more power to you, that faith should be strong enough to ensure someone calling your God a 'fairy in the sky'. Are we so soft that we can't take anything contrary to what we believe? Do we get so offended by contrary opinions.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 14/01/2021 20:05:42    2327468

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I'm perfectly happy attending my local mass every Saturday night. Say a few prayers , get a bit of head space to get away from it all, meet a few neighbours and off about my business for another week.Any priest i ever encountered in our parish over the years did lots of good work with the sick, elderly , vulnerable etc and a couple of them were good players as well on local team .
Im not saying i haven't done things wrong in my life or the church is perfect but it brings a lot of comfort and hope to plenty of people still in this and plenty other countries. I had a couple of difficult times in my life and a few prayers helped me. You will find the same for other religions be they Muslim , Protestant etc etc . If you have no faith thats your own business but dont be going round hassling those that do.

hurler32 (Limerick) - Posts: 870 - 14/01/2021 20:07:20    2327469

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Replying To MicktheMiller:  "Won't give over for you sunshine. Dream on."
So I'll take that as you showing that you've no way of showing your Woke Bogeyman to be in any way comparible to the Catholic Church's power and influence?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 14/01/2021 20:07:28    2327470

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "It seems the original topic "Tradition - When did the tradition of the bishop throwing in the ball at the start of a game cease", has turned in to a slanging match between secularism and religion. Give it enough time and it will end up a slanging match between Dublin and Kerry, as most topics on here eventually do."
slanging?
What else was a thread called tradition and has an op about bishop throwing ball into games going to turn in?

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3758 - 14/01/2021 20:50:28    2327475

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Replying To MesAmis:  "So you're comparing the likes of Ronan Mullen get some abuse online to the heinous crimes of the Catholic Church over centuries.

Is that really it? Jaysus that's weak."
No...
I'm not. I was talking about intolerance in Ireland in its different forms.

In fact your reactions are a fairly good example of what I was talking about.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1106 - 14/01/2021 21:04:46    2327476

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Replying To MesAmis:  "So I'll take that as you showing that you've no way of showing your Woke Bogeyman to be in any way comparible to the Catholic Church's power and influence?"
A guard took his own life last week. While many will blame the likes of Gemma O Dohery and likes yet the new woke left wing polititions and the likes are as much to blame. Their Anti Garda rhetoric is there for all to see in the last few weeks.

It's very clear you're in the group of "I'm always right no matter what" Any one who dares say anything you disagree with is shot down straight away. Yet anyone who shares your view is always right.

Like always you'll have something that in your own head makes you right and everyone else is wrong.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1628 - 14/01/2021 21:08:50    2327477

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As a practising Catholic and a very proud Irish man, I'm very upset, troubled and ashamed of what has come out of mother and baby homes and other religionist institutions in my country, I nearly lost my faith because of it but I managed to not let it ruin my faith for me. I'm not trying to be a sensationalist but i do believe those involved in those crimes who are still alive should be on trial for crimes against humanity because this is much more and doesn't compare to criminal acts, and I also believe those who are dead are getting what they deserve now. It's a stain on our wonderful country that should never be forgotten.

At the moment the Catholic church is in a bad place in this country, they have to take responsibility for their wrongs and give full apologies followed by actions and I would go as far as to say the pope as leader of the Catholic church should meet with survivers and apologise personally for what the church did to them.

Now all that said I must say there is good people in the church too, I had some personal trouble last year and my parish priest supported me the best he could. In fairness the genuine good clergy are there and willing to help and counsel people if they are needed and I do believe that's a good thing.

On the topic of wokeism, I think it is a real danger to western society, people who promote it substitute fact for their ideology. Bad idea's have to be challenged and facts and truths around social issues need to highlighted no matter who is upset or offended by them.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 1038 - 14/01/2021 21:18:40    2327479

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Replying To KillingFields:  "slanging?
What else was a thread called tradition and has an op about bishop throwing ball into games going to turn in?"
"slanging?"

Slanging: To use angry and abusive language.

Slanging match: A dispute in which insults and accusations are made by each party against the other

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2775 - 14/01/2021 22:11:22    2327485

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Replying To skillet:  "You disagree with me, that's fine but I think you're in complete denial about the reality of Irish society now.

In my experience, the intolerance in this country is breathtaking.. Its a lot more subtle than the Catholic Church in its heyday but equally as vindictive..its just at the opposite end of the spectrum now.

Look at the vitriol the likes of Ronan Mullen gets,
In fact Ask anyone whose voiced an opinion that doesn't fit the all encompassing Liberal ideology..

There's an agenda at work, that if you disagree with it you suffer.
In essence one form of intolerance has replaced another.."
Ronan Mullen lol. It's possible people can be continually wrong and offensive you know. No one with a clear conscience needs to worry about cancel culture.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12342 - 15/01/2021 11:58:06    2327535

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So much whataboutery on here and all to deflect from the fact that the oppressive cult (not all the individuals) some people follow is pure evil and what they've done to this country cannot be excused. I appreciate it's hard to face up to but you're gonna have to eventually.

I have no issue with people having a faith but unfortunately that's exactly what's exploited by religious orgs to allow their heinous crimes against the most vulnerable.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12342 - 15/01/2021 12:06:45    2327536

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Replying To skillet:  "No...
I'm not. I was talking about intolerance in Ireland in its different forms.

In fact your reactions are a fairly good example of what I was talking about."
So my actions, ie disagreeing with you, are a good example of what you're talking about which is comparible to the power and influence the Church had in Ireland?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 15/01/2021 13:06:37    2327551

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Replying To oneoff:  "A guard took his own life last week. While many will blame the likes of Gemma O Dohery and likes yet the new woke left wing polititions and the likes are as much to blame. Their Anti Garda rhetoric is there for all to see in the last few weeks.

It's very clear you're in the group of "I'm always right no matter what" Any one who dares say anything you disagree with is shot down straight away. Yet anyone who shares your view is always right.

Like always you'll have something that in your own head makes you right and everyone else is wrong."
So woke left wing politicians have the same power and influence in the Ireland of today as the Church had in the Ireland of yesterday?

Anyone who disagrees with me gets "shot down"?

I think you're confused. I'm disagreeing with your, and others, point of view. You're not being silenced, you have as much a platform as I. To use the old cliche "I'll defend your right to an opinion etc" but what you don't have is a right to have your opinion unchallenged.

Whenever anyone puts out the whole "I'm being shot down" or "silenced" or "cancel culture" it often seems that they just wish their opinion wasn't been challenged so that they don't have to defend it.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 15/01/2021 13:13:13    2327552

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Replying To MesAmis:  "So woke left wing politicians have the same power and influence in the Ireland of today as the Church had in the Ireland of yesterday?

Anyone who disagrees with me gets "shot down"?

I think you're confused. I'm disagreeing with your, and others, point of view. You're not being silenced, you have as much a platform as I. To use the old cliche "I'll defend your right to an opinion etc" but what you don't have is a right to have your opinion unchallenged.

Whenever anyone puts out the whole "I'm being shot down" or "silenced" or "cancel culture" it often seems that they just wish their opinion wasn't been challenged so that they don't have to defend it."
And people disagreeing with the likes of Ronan Mullen forcing his personal interpretation of "faith" in his particular deity on them politically are somehow intolerant

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12342 - 15/01/2021 13:20:50    2327554

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Replying To DUALSUPPORT:  "As a practising Catholic and a very proud Irish man, I'm very upset, troubled and ashamed of what has come out of mother and baby homes and other religionist institutions in my country, I nearly lost my faith because of it but I managed to not let it ruin my faith for me. I'm not trying to be a sensationalist but i do believe those involved in those crimes who are still alive should be on trial for crimes against humanity because this is much more and doesn't compare to criminal acts, and I also believe those who are dead are getting what they deserve now. It's a stain on our wonderful country that should never be forgotten.

At the moment the Catholic church is in a bad place in this country, they have to take responsibility for their wrongs and give full apologies followed by actions and I would go as far as to say the pope as leader of the Catholic church should meet with survivers and apologise personally for what the church did to them.

Now all that said I must say there is good people in the church too, I had some personal trouble last year and my parish priest supported me the best he could. In fairness the genuine good clergy are there and willing to help and counsel people if they are needed and I do believe that's a good thing.

On the topic of wokeism, I think it is a real danger to western society, people who promote it substitute fact for their ideology. Bad idea's have to be challenged and facts and truths around social issues need to highlighted no matter who is upset or offended by them."
I'm glad your PP helped you with your personal troubles. He's to be commended, but non-religious people are there for you to talk to also. The fact he's a well paid member of an oppressive cult does not elevate his actions above anyone else.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12342 - 15/01/2021 13:27:57    2327556

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For every "woke left wing politician" in Ireland, there are a multiples of that who have committed or facilitated the most disgusting and monstrous crimes in the name of their god.

But it's more or less the same thing right?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12342 - 15/01/2021 13:42:39    2327564

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If there's a "woke left wing politician" who has buried a baby in a septic tank in the name of their god, then by all means we can make comparisons.

Blaming "woke left-wing politicians" for the tragic death of a Gardai, following terrible abuse by right-wing religious bigots, and accusing them of intolerance is an alarming leap.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12342 - 15/01/2021 13:49:21    2327566

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Replying To MesAmis:  "So woke left wing politicians have the same power and influence in the Ireland of today as the Church had in the Ireland of yesterday?

Anyone who disagrees with me gets "shot down"?

I think you're confused. I'm disagreeing with your, and others, point of view. You're not being silenced, you have as much a platform as I. To use the old cliche "I'll defend your right to an opinion etc" but what you don't have is a right to have your opinion unchallenged.

Whenever anyone puts out the whole "I'm being shot down" or "silenced" or "cancel culture" it often seems that they just wish their opinion wasn't been challenged so that they don't have to defend it."
So woke left wing politicians have the same power and influence in the Ireland of today as the Church had in the Ireland of yesterday? "

Where had anyone here said this? You're the only one who's saying it.

it often seems that they just wish their opinion wasn't been challenged so that they don't have to defend it."

Excatly like you. Anyone who disagrees with you is always wrong. Look at your comments here. People put their point out there and all you do is come back with the same response, something that btw you're the only one saying, and refuse to answer.

You'll now agree with everything Breffni40 without questioning them. Why's that I wonder....

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1628 - 15/01/2021 14:29:09    2327573

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Replying To oneoff:  "So woke left wing politicians have the same power and influence in the Ireland of today as the Church had in the Ireland of yesterday? "

Where had anyone here said this? You're the only one who's saying it.

it often seems that they just wish their opinion wasn't been challenged so that they don't have to defend it."

Excatly like you. Anyone who disagrees with you is always wrong. Look at your comments here. People put their point out there and all you do is come back with the same response, something that btw you're the only one saying, and refuse to answer.

You'll now agree with everything Breffni40 without questioning them. Why's that I wonder...."
You're free to question what I've said

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12342 - 15/01/2021 14:43:31    2327575

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Replying To oneoff:  "So woke left wing politicians have the same power and influence in the Ireland of today as the Church had in the Ireland of yesterday? "

Where had anyone here said this? You're the only one who's saying it.

it often seems that they just wish their opinion wasn't been challenged so that they don't have to defend it."

Excatly like you. Anyone who disagrees with you is always wrong. Look at your comments here. People put their point out there and all you do is come back with the same response, something that btw you're the only one saying, and refuse to answer.

You'll now agree with everything Breffni40 without questioning them. Why's that I wonder...."
The post that I originally replied to made the comparison between the "Woke, permanently offended" and the Catholic Church's control in Ireland in the past.

I have simply asserted that I disagree with that comparison.

Yourself and a number of other posters have taken exception to my disagreement.

None of you have offered any examples of the power and influence of the "Woke, permanently offended" that is comparible to the huge power and influence that the Church once had in Ireland.

"Anyone who disagrees with you is always wrong" - that's your assertion. Many people, posters on this site included, have disagreed with me and they've been correct. What they've had in common though was an ability to actually back up their opinion and make an argument beyond using borrowed cliches and labels and using their factual knowledge to explain to me how I am wrong. That is yet to happen on this thread.

If people have direct examples that show that the Liberal Woke Brigade exert the same level of power and influence and are just as dangerous to the average person on the street as the church once were then I'm all ears.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 15/01/2021 15:05:42    2327581

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