|
@StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 2175 - 05/10/2026 16:42:58
Maybe two mixed-Prov Groups of 5 is best:
- Start with Muns 5 & Lein 8 KO
- 'Top 7' ranked earn group byes; 'Other 6' to Playoff KO
- 2 mixed groups of 5 (A & B, 10 teams after Playoff KO)
- Split Muns teams evenly between groups (likely 2-3)
- Round robin groups (4 games per team)
- ALL teams with >3 pts advance to AIC KO
- AIC QF bye teams (variable, most pts in either group)
- Target inter-group ties in AIC KO to avoid repeat (if able)
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3583 - 06/10/2026 19:00:09
2696448
Link
0
|
|
Replying To StoreysTash: "If ever there was a worse idea (except the no-jeopardy Wexford champ of last year) than this 2-group Leinster championship, this one takes the biscuit.
While Munster have a cut-throat, kill and be killed championship Leinster have a "let everybody take part", risk-free alternative which is leaving none of the Leinster counties fit for battle when we play them.
The same is happening at underage and Leinster counties are falling further and further behind. The underage structures make no sense either.
Its crazy that Leinster is allowing ourselves to be the development guinea pig for hurling. Whether or not there are more Leinster counties is neither here nor there.
The Leinster championship was weak this year already, this will weaken it further.
Its time to seperate provincial hurling from Liam McCarthy and open up underage championship to ensure the counties don't just play the same 4-5 counties year on year.
The slide in Leinster is alarming and its partly our own fault but we're trying to sit between two stools - promoting hurling and winning things - and we're all losing out.
At some point, Willie Maher and his team need to be asked is developing hurling solely the job of Leinster counties? While Munster counties hoover up All-Irelands at underage and adult levels." Very well put. This change makes no sense at all. The league is there for developing teams.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 511 - 07/10/2026 16:53:10
2696535
Link
0
|
|
To add a bit of jeopardy to Lein SHC proposal:
After 3 games per team, assume table positions are:
Group 1: Teams 1,2,3,4
Group 2: Teams 5,6,7,8
Group McD: Teams 9,10,11,12
______
Eliminated: Team 4
Lein QF: Team 6 hosts Team 3
Lein SFs: Team 1 hosts (6/5) and Team 2 hosts (3/5)
McD SFs: Team 7 hosts Team 10; Team 9 hosts Team 8
McD Relegation Final: Team 11 hosts Team 12
______
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3583 - 07/10/2026 19:41:12
2696546
Link
0
|
|
I would like to know is there anyone on here who actually supports the idea
I think it's an awful idea and it seems most other people do too
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1567 - 07/10/2026 20:30:42
2696549
Link
0
|
|
The hurling league had no jeopardy and has only been fixed in recent years. Leinster is now taking on a low jeopardy lose 3 games and you are through to a Leinster quarter final.
The Joe Mac final had a lot on the line. The Joe Mac final has been devalued. Madness.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10087 - 07/10/2026 21:02:38
2696553
Link
1
|
|
Replying To zinny: "This is a typical Hurling community response to a problem that has existed since the foundationof the GAA. They believe they have the best sport in the world but cannot understand why more people don't play it. The answer must be the fact that the weaker counties, are only weaker because they don't get to play inter County hurling at the top level. Has anyone ever presented evidence to show that Hurling is growing in these countries that would support lifting these counties out of current status? As much as I may have different views with Liam Griffin at least he understands the numbers game at underage. Hurling like Rugby used to think the hard man image was a way to promote the game, while not seeing the world change in front of them. Yet today we still see people with the same attitudes not understanding that the very virtues they prompte are whats killing the game." Ive never played hurling and i think its the best game in the world,and i like many different sports.
I tried to start hurling at 14 but simply couldn't get the hang of it,even the basics took ages to master.
In order to create a hurling culture you need to have youngsters playing it regularly at a decent level from a young age and that takes alot of encouragement, time and effort,three things that are absent in areas where hurling is traditionally weak.
Add to that the fact that hurling in these areas will be competing against sports that have more promotion via sky etc, are easier to play, and can potentially offer a professional career,and there will unfortunately only be one winner.
Nothing at all to do with any so called hard man image.
Seniorleague (Galway) - Posts: 365 - 07/10/2026 21:32:43
2696555
Link
0
|
|
I really do try to be positive (honestly) but this is pretty bad.
Form a Galway point of view, the only difference between winning 3 games and losing 3 games is one extra game before a leinster semi final. The first 3 games of the year are glorified challenge games with no jeopardy at all. For example, we could lose to KK, Dublin and Offaly, then beat Laois and be at the same stage as KK who won all their games.
Apparently there is a yo-yo 'Problem'. So the solution is to shuffle things upward and make Wexford and Offaly the yo-yo teams (Apologies wexford and offaly fans, just basing it on the most likely imo.)
A lot of momentum for this seems based off of kildare putting in a few decent performances this year. So the solution to their relegation is to make it next to impossible for them to ever get a game against Galway or Kilkenny- Or if they do it will be because they are at a very low ebb having been relegated.
What's basically happening is Leinster will be shrunk and Joe Mcdonagh has become 'group 2' and the now Joe mcdonagh is a 3 game semi final and final with no incentive to win the final.
it's pretty similar to the Leinster u20 the last few years which as a Galway supporter i barely watch until the semi final. You'll be there either way so what does it matter.
Meanwhile Munster counties will play 4 high quality games and hockey the living you know what out of the 3rd (and sometimes second) place leinster team. All the existing gaps are going to grow as a result of this. It's complete change for the sake of change
Overdahill (Galway) - Posts: 154 - 08/10/2026 09:53:53
2696571
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Overdahill: "I really do try to be positive (honestly) but this is pretty bad.
Form a Galway point of view, the only difference between winning 3 games and losing 3 games is one extra game before a leinster semi final. The first 3 games of the year are glorified challenge games with no jeopardy at all. For example, we could lose to KK, Dublin and Offaly, then beat Laois and be at the same stage as KK who won all their games.
Apparently there is a yo-yo 'Problem'. So the solution is to shuffle things upward and make Wexford and Offaly the yo-yo teams (Apologies wexford and offaly fans, just basing it on the most likely imo.)
A lot of momentum for this seems based off of kildare putting in a few decent performances this year. So the solution to their relegation is to make it next to impossible for them to ever get a game against Galway or Kilkenny- Or if they do it will be because they are at a very low ebb having been relegated.
What's basically happening is Leinster will be shrunk and Joe Mcdonagh has become 'group 2' and the now Joe mcdonagh is a 3 game semi final and final with no incentive to win the final.
it's pretty similar to the Leinster u20 the last few years which as a Galway supporter i barely watch until the semi final. You'll be there either way so what does it matter.
Meanwhile Munster counties will play 4 high quality games and hockey the living you know what out of the 3rd (and sometimes second) place leinster team. All the existing gaps are going to grow as a result of this. It's complete change for the sake of change" There have been two problems with Leinster in recent years
1. The teams haven't been good enough
2. There's a clear top 5 and whoever comes up goes straight back down
This proposal stops the 6th best team yo-yoing although as you said, there is now yo-yoing between 4th and 5th (Tbf, it's not quite the same as both teams can still win Leinster from the second group in theory)
However, it doesn't do anything to make the teams better and if anything, it makes the quality level worse
People are saying it brings jeopardy into Leinster because there are now knockout games
But there already is jeopardy under the current structure, it's just that the teams haven't been good enough!
Munster doesn't need knockout games and there's plenty of jeopardy in their group stages, it's all down to quality
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1567 - 08/10/2026 11:04:28
2696579
Link
2
|
|
Replying To ElGranSenor: "There have been two problems with Leinster in recent years
1. The teams haven't been good enough
2. There's a clear top 5 and whoever comes up goes straight back down
This proposal stops the 6th best team yo-yoing although as you said, there is now yo-yoing between 4th and 5th (Tbf, it's not quite the same as both teams can still win Leinster from the second group in theory)
However, it doesn't do anything to make the teams better and if anything, it makes the quality level worse
People are saying it brings jeopardy into Leinster because there are now knockout games
But there already is jeopardy under the current structure, it's just that the teams haven't been good enough!
Munster doesn't need knockout games and there's plenty of jeopardy in their group stages, it's all down to quality" The Group system was abolished in football because there "wasn't enough jeopardy" with 3 of the 4 teams going through.
Now it's proposed the Leinster hurling have a group with 4 out of 4 qualifying!
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 962 - 08/10/2026 11:43:12
2696586
Link
0
|
|
Replying To brianb: "Very well put. This change makes no sense at all. The league is there for developing teams." That's an interesting view from a Kildare hurling man, considering how as I've already said over on the Wexford thread where this is also being discussed, the word on the grapevine is that all those counties are mad keen on the idea. That they love the idea of more of them being able to play in the "proper" Leinster Championship every year, and have a chance to play a "proper" quarter-final.
Not that I expect you to be able to speak on behalf of all of Kildare hurling and your County Board, mind you!
The expectation is that it will sail through. It's the recommendation of Leinster's own committee. Kilkenny unlikely to go against it, partly because of who it's led by, and party because of how despite their bad (by their standards) showing this year, they'll expect to have a semi-final spot just about every other year.
Even a large portion of Wexford people could be swayed by it if they think it'll mean a return to the days of trips to Croke Park for a Leinster semi-finals double-header. But so far as I know, that hasn't been stated anywhere in the plan. Could be the case that one semi-final would be somewhere like Portlaoise and the other somewhere like Nowlan Park.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4119 - 08/10/2026 12:02:38
2696590
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Overdahill: "I really do try to be positive (honestly) but this is pretty bad.
Form a Galway point of view, the only difference between winning 3 games and losing 3 games is one extra game before a leinster semi final. The first 3 games of the year are glorified challenge games with no jeopardy at all. For example, we could lose to KK, Dublin and Offaly, then beat Laois and be at the same stage as KK who won all their games.
Apparently there is a yo-yo 'Problem'. So the solution is to shuffle things upward and make Wexford and Offaly the yo-yo teams (Apologies wexford and offaly fans, just basing it on the most likely imo.)
A lot of momentum for this seems based off of kildare putting in a few decent performances this year. So the solution to their relegation is to make it next to impossible for them to ever get a game against Galway or Kilkenny- Or if they do it will be because they are at a very low ebb having been relegated.
What's basically happening is Leinster will be shrunk and Joe Mcdonagh has become 'group 2' and the now Joe mcdonagh is a 3 game semi final and final with no incentive to win the final.
it's pretty similar to the Leinster u20 the last few years which as a Galway supporter i barely watch until the semi final. You'll be there either way so what does it matter.
Meanwhile Munster counties will play 4 high quality games and hockey the living you know what out of the 3rd (and sometimes second) place leinster team. All the existing gaps are going to grow as a result of this. It's complete change for the sake of change" I don't agree totally. I think on balance, it's an improvement. What are the advantages? 1) A significant reduction in the volume of round robin mismatches. 2) 2 counties added, but only 2 additional games to be played, so a perfect fit with existing calender. 3) the useless Joe Mc finalists v 3rd place provincial games will be dropped from the allireland schedule, at no loss whatsoever.
I take your point about a lack of jeopardy in the Group A games, but they should still be useful challenge games before the ko rounds, if teams want to treat them that way.
As for 'yoyoing', it's a factor in all levels of GAA and worldwide sports, and isn't something that's usually solved from without, but will solve from within when/if teams become capable of improving their standards. History shows that we've rarely seen such an improvement in 125+ years of hurling.
Nicky Brennan says it's about fixing the 'yoyoing', and 8 team involvement will improve that aspect, but the biggest improvement i see is the change from a 15_1 (and those 15 games were between 3or4 arguably 'strong' teams pitted about 2or3 arguably 'tier2 outfits, which meant that up to half the games were unappealing) split of round robin_ko games to a 12-6 split. That's a ratio change that I would welcome, and the competition has been crying out for imo.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4925 - 08/10/2026 12:32:11
2696594
Link
0
|
|
Not a fan of the format but it's a Leinster matter.
The Group B winner should at least get to host the Group A bottom team in the quarter final. 3rd in Group A possibly hosting the Group B runners up.
Group B is kind of like the old qualifier group. Top 2 going through. If they win the quarter final, they take the place of their beaten opponent. Otherwise they stay in the Group B (Qualifier Group).
If Kerry make the McDonagh Cup final in the future - Kerry should be allowed into Munster. There would have to be musical chairs to fill the gap. Possibly allowing the Ring Cup to reduce to 5 teams for one year so that Group B and the McDonagh group retain 4 teams each. Wrinkles can be ironed out.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10087 - 08/10/2026 13:25:51
2696603
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "I don't agree totally. I think on balance, it's an improvement. What are the advantages? 1) A significant reduction in the volume of round robin mismatches. 2) 2 counties added, but only 2 additional games to be played, so a perfect fit with existing calender. 3) the useless Joe Mc finalists v 3rd place provincial games will be dropped from the allireland schedule, at no loss whatsoever.
I take your point about a lack of jeopardy in the Group A games, but they should still be useful challenge games before the ko rounds, if teams want to treat them that way.
As for 'yoyoing', it's a factor in all levels of GAA and worldwide sports, and isn't something that's usually solved from without, but will solve from within when/if teams become capable of improving their standards. History shows that we've rarely seen such an improvement in 125+ years of hurling.
Nicky Brennan says it's about fixing the 'yoyoing', and 8 team involvement will improve that aspect, but the biggest improvement i see is the change from a 15_1 (and those 15 games were between 3or4 arguably 'strong' teams pitted about 2or3 arguably 'tier2 outfits, which meant that up to half the games were unappealing) split of round robin_ko games to a 12-6 split. That's a ratio change that I would welcome, and the competition has been crying out for imo." On your number 3 in what you say are "advantages", i.e. "he useless Joe Mc finalists v 3rd place provincial games will be dropped from the allireland schedule" -
A point I've been making is that one of the quarter-finals wouldn't be that different at all. It would be 3rd best against 6th best, rather than 3rd best against 7th or 8th best. But in any given year, you'd still expect it to be something like Galway/Dublin/Offaly/Wexford v Kildare/Carlow/Laois/Westmeath, which is exactly the sort of match-up you'd have had in those "useless" old games anyway.
By the way, here's a separate point that hadn't occurred to anybody here, and not to me until I read a bit more about this thing during lunchtime. How to determine the third Leinster team to go through to the All-Ireland series, to play the Munster runner-up?
Turns out there'd be a playoff between the two losing Leinster semi-finalists. Another form of an All-Ireland preliminary quarter-final.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4119 - 08/10/2026 14:44:58
2696612
Link
0
|
|
Replying To legendzxix: "Not a fan of the format but it's a Leinster matter.
The Group B winner should at least get to host the Group A bottom team in the quarter final. 3rd in Group A possibly hosting the Group B runners up.
Group B is kind of like the old qualifier group. Top 2 going through. If they win the quarter final, they take the place of their beaten opponent. Otherwise they stay in the Group B (Qualifier Group).
If Kerry make the McDonagh Cup final in the future - Kerry should be allowed into Munster. There would have to be musical chairs to fill the gap. Possibly allowing the Ring Cup to reduce to 5 teams for one year so that Group B and the McDonagh group retain 4 teams each. Wrinkles can be ironed out." Rule was actually changed three years ago to say that if Kerry ever win Joe McDonagh, they go into Munster, and Munster temporarily becomes a six-team competition.
But that throws up something else I've just thought of -
The Leinster proposal is that the Joe McDonagh Cup finalists of any given year would be in Group B the following year. Which on the face of it means that if Kerry reach the McDonagh Final, they'd go into Leinster.
And then if they win the McDonagh Final, they'd go into Munster. Would be a fair old fixtures pile-up if they're expected to play in both!
Seriously, though - would expect there'd have to be a safeguard built into the Leinster thing to prohibit Kerry from coming in if they made the McDonagh Final. And then you'd need another playoff, between the two losing McDonagh semi-finalists, to determine the last spot in Leinster Group B for the following year.
This whole thing doesn't get any better in my eyes, but considering top table of Leinster Council themselves are actually backing it, would be a big surprise if it doesn't come in.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4119 - 08/10/2026 14:50:16
2696614
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Seanfan: "The Group system was abolished in football because there "wasn't enough jeopardy" with 3 of the 4 teams going through.
Now it's proposed the Leinster hurling have a group with 4 out of 4 qualifying!" Absolute farce
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20796 - 08/10/2026 15:26:22
2696617
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "That's an interesting view from a Kildare hurling man, considering how as I've already said over on the Wexford thread where this is also being discussed, the word on the grapevine is that all those counties are mad keen on the idea. That they love the idea of more of them being able to play in the "proper" Leinster Championship every year, and have a chance to play a "proper" quarter-final.
Not that I expect you to be able to speak on behalf of all of Kildare hurling and your County Board, mind you!
The expectation is that it will sail through. It's the recommendation of Leinster's own committee. Kilkenny unlikely to go against it, partly because of who it's led by, and party because of how despite their bad (by their standards) showing this year, they'll expect to have a semi-final spot just about every other year.
Even a large portion of Wexford people could be swayed by it if they think it'll mean a return to the days of trips to Croke Park for a Leinster semi-finals double-header. But so far as I know, that hasn't been stated anywhere in the plan. Could be the case that one semi-final would be somewhere like Portlaoise and the other somewhere like Nowlan Park." The latest is that underdogs might have home advantage. Shame this forum doesn't do emojis.....
Although maybe we will have all our games at home now?!!!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20796 - 08/10/2026 15:28:09
2696618
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Pikeman96: "That's an interesting view from a Kildare hurling man, considering how as I've already said over on the Wexford thread where this is also being discussed, the word on the grapevine is that all those counties are mad keen on the idea. That they love the idea of more of them being able to play in the "proper" Leinster Championship every year, and have a chance to play a "proper" quarter-final.
Not that I expect you to be able to speak on behalf of all of Kildare hurling and your County Board, mind you!
The expectation is that it will sail through. It's the recommendation of Leinster's own committee. Kilkenny unlikely to go against it, partly because of who it's led by, and party because of how despite their bad (by their standards) showing this year, they'll expect to have a semi-final spot just about every other year.
Even a large portion of Wexford people could be swayed by it if they think it'll mean a return to the days of trips to Croke Park for a Leinster semi-finals double-header. But so far as I know, that hasn't been stated anywhere in the plan. Could be the case that one semi-final would be somewhere like Portlaoise and the other somewhere like Nowlan Park." I might indeed be in the minority in Kildare - but I don't think the system is broken.
The league was a bug bear of mine for a while. With 7 team divisions and 2 up and down the developing teams will get more games at a high level albeit slightly below championship level. This is now fixed.
The championship needs to be a full on meritocracy. My main bug bear with it is there is no relegation from the Munster Championship. A fair competition would have the bottom team in Leinster play off against the bottom team in Munster to retain their spot. We'll never know how Kildare would have got on against Tipp in this year's relegation playoff - the only Munster team Kildare played this year was Clare in the league who won by 4 points. Perhaps these games would be closer than people might assume.
With the aim being to reduce the yo-yo effect; its also funny that a different yo-yo team has been promoted each of the last 6 years:
2021 - Westmeath up; Antrim down
2022 - Antrim up; Laois down
2023 - Carlow up; Westmeath down
2024 - Offaly up; Carlow down
2025 - Kildare up; Antrim down
2026 - Laois up ; Kildare down
The current setup has brought the Joe McDonagh teams up considerably to the extent that they no longer roll over easily for the established counties. By including all in a bizarre tournament where its hard to get knocked out I feel standards will start to slip once more - to the detriment of all.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 511 - 08/10/2026 16:03:43
2696622
Link
0
|