Tiered Leinster SHC

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In recent days, the media reported a proposal from Nicky Brennan's Committee that the Leinster SHC could be expanded and tiered. Essentially, the current 'Lein 6 & McDonagh 6' are split into 'three tiers of 4' - Lein 1, Lein 2 & McD groups. After all play 3 games: - Tier 1 top 2 to Lein SFs; other 2 to Lein QFs - Tier 2 top 2 to Lein QFs; other 2 to McD SFs - Tier 3 top 2 to McD SFs; other 2 to Relegation Final It seems this is the best solution if the Muns juggernaut is to remain intact. I would rather see mixed-Prov groups after Prov KO. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3570 - 27/09/2026 14:29:29 2695192 Link
Replying To omahant: "In recent days, the media reported a proposal from Nicky Brennan's Committee that the Leinster SHC could be expanded and tiered. Essentially, the current 'Lein 6 & McDonagh 6' are split into 'three tiers of 4' - Lein 1, Lein 2 & McD groups. After all play 3 games: - Tier 1 top 2 to Lein SFs; other 2 to Lein QFs - Tier 2 top 2 to Lein QFs; other 2 to McD SFs - Tier 3 top 2 to McD SFs; other 2 to Relegation Final It seems this is the best solution if the Muns juggernaut is to remain intact. I would rather see mixed-Prov groups after Prov KO." I'm in favour of there being mixed groups after a Provincial KO but the Provincial results would have to feed into the mixed groups IMO, could maybe make it work under a Swiss model but I fear that some may view a Swiss model as too complex ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1551 - 27/09/2026 16:43:37 2695199 Link
Actually discussing this already on the Wexford Hurling thread (not the separate 'Wexford Club Hurling' thread), from about halfway down on page 227 there Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4086 - 27/09/2026 21:28:03 2695240 Link
problem would be for the 5th and lesser extent 6th placed teams, so in this iteration Wexford and Laois The last thing Wexford need is to be playing a lower standard and then be expected to beat a top 4 team in a knock out game They would slip further behind Same for likes of Laois, Kildare and Antrim And the play offs are akin to the McDonogh Cup preliminary QFs which GAA finally managed to get rid of Leinster doesnt need further dilution Yadse (Limerick) - Posts: 290 - 29/09/2026 12:32:11 2695480 Link
Replying To Yadse: "problem would be for the 5th and lesser extent 6th placed teams, so in this iteration Wexford and Laois The last thing Wexford need is to be playing a lower standard and then be expected to beat a top 4 team in a knock out game They would slip further behind Same for likes of Laois, Kildare and Antrim And the play offs are akin to the McDonogh Cup preliminary QFs which GAA finally managed to get rid of Leinster doesnt need further dilution" The dilution bit is fair but at the same time, how do you get the likes of Laois, Carlow, Antrim, Kildare, and Westmeath to bridge the gap? Underage work probably the real answer tbh but I don't think they think the current Senior set-up is doing them any favours ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1551 - 29/09/2026 12:57:46 2695485 Link
Replying To Yadse: "problem would be for the 5th and lesser extent 6th placed teams, so in this iteration Wexford and Laois The last thing Wexford need is to be playing a lower standard and then be expected to beat a top 4 team in a knock out game They would slip further behind Same for likes of Laois, Kildare and Antrim And the play offs are akin to the McDonogh Cup preliminary QFs which GAA finally managed to get rid of Leinster doesnt need further dilution" Much the same points I made in a longer post over on the Wexford Hurling thread. And in particular, I agree that the quarter-final of 3rd in Group 1 versus 2nd in Group 2 would basically just be a repeat of the old system where either a Joe McDonagh team played 3rd in Leinster. We've only just voted to move away from that system, so why go back to it? Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4086 - 29/09/2026 13:08:11 2695491 Link
Replying To Yadse: "problem would be for the 5th and lesser extent 6th placed teams, so in this iteration Wexford and Laois The last thing Wexford need is to be playing a lower standard and then be expected to beat a top 4 team in a knock out game They would slip further behind Same for likes of Laois, Kildare and Antrim And the play offs are akin to the McDonogh Cup preliminary QFs which GAA finally managed to get rid of Leinster doesnt need further dilution" I think we'd be the big loser in this whole proposal to be honest Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4680 - 29/09/2026 13:12:22 2695493 Link
Replying To Doylerwex: "I think we'd be the big loser in this whole proposal to be honest" The problem with Wexford is they fall between the cracks . . .4th best in Leinster and too good for the Laois, Kildare, Westmeath etc. Currently Wexford won't beat a top 4 AI team no matter who they play in the Leinster Championship. Inaroundthehouse (Wicklow) - Posts: 20 - 29/09/2026 15:05:57 2695521 Link
Replying To Inaroundthehouse: "The problem with Wexford is they fall between the cracks . . .4th best in Leinster and too good for the Laois, Kildare, Westmeath etc. Currently Wexford won't beat a top 4 AI team no matter who they play in the Leinster Championship." We are 5th best currently. Kilkenny are 4th best. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 20755 - 29/09/2026 16:54:03 2695541 Link
Replying To ElGranSenor: "The dilution bit is fair but at the same time, how do you get the likes of Laois, Carlow, Antrim, Kildare, and Westmeath to bridge the gap? Underage work probably the real answer tbh but I don't think they think the current Senior set-up is doing them any favours" Nobody seems to care about it for club tems, if they get promoted and cannot hack it then they go back down. If the all ireland championship was expanded to 12 teams and run on a league style basis it may help but that will never happen. Hold on woukd it look a bit like football then! zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2242 - 29/09/2026 16:55:12 2695542 Link
This proposal looks good on paper, but it risks widening the gap rather than closing it. The strongest teams will only get stronger, while the middle counties are left in a no-man's land. Playing three group games at a lower intensity is no preparation for the jump into a sudden-death championship match against established powers. The pace, physicality and pressure are completely different. We've already seen this experiment at Minor and U20 level, where tiered provincial structures have done little to bridge the gap. If anything, they've expanded it. The top teams haven't benefited either, as Munster counties have dominated All-Ireland success at all levels in recent years. If the objective is to challenge the Munster juggernaut, this feels more like managing decline not driving improvement. The weaker counties may become more competitive among themselves or jump to mid tier, but the pathway for genuine mid-tier teams to break through and compete with the elite becomes even narrower. Loughlenegale (Westmeath) - Posts: 70 - 29/09/2026 17:10:11 2695545 Link
This is a classic GAA non solution. They never get tired of creating new tiers and coming up with over complicated and ineffective formats where the winners of a weaker tier play the losers of stronger tier. This does nothing to fix any of the problems. First, for the bottom four Leinster Championship teams all that'll happen is that you'll have removed the opportunity to consistently play top opposition. Playing a one off knockout out game against the losers of the stronger group as a "reward", is not a substitute for playing stronger teams consistently. Second, you'll weaken the Joe McDonagh by removing too many teams to the point that its in no way a useful preparation to play at a higher level. The standard of the Christy Ring Cup was similarly damaged when they started removing teams and ultimately creating the Joe McDonagh. Third, the top tier of the Leinster Championship will be extraordinarily boring. Odds are that all four teams will make the semis year in year out with limited exceptions. No one will bother to pay in to see a series of challenge games. What the McDonagh teams need is a realistic (but not guaranteed) prospect of staying in the Leinster Championship when promoted. Just make the championship 7 teams. The bottom two to three teams will have a proper battle to stay up. It gives the promoted teams a better chance to maintain their status, build in the championship by playing top teams but also by having to earn it. AllWhite (Kildare) - Posts: 173 - 29/09/2026 20:31:42 2695588 Link
Replying To AllWhite: "This is a classic GAA non solution. They never get tired of creating new tiers and coming up with over complicated and ineffective formats where the winners of a weaker tier play the losers of stronger tier. This does nothing to fix any of the problems. First, for the bottom four Leinster Championship teams all that'll happen is that you'll have removed the opportunity to consistently play top opposition. Playing a one off knockout out game against the losers of the stronger group as a "reward", is not a substitute for playing stronger teams consistently. Second, you'll weaken the Joe McDonagh by removing too many teams to the point that its in no way a useful preparation to play at a higher level. The standard of the Christy Ring Cup was similarly damaged when they started removing teams and ultimately creating the Joe McDonagh. Third, the top tier of the Leinster Championship will be extraordinarily boring. Odds are that all four teams will make the semis year in year out with limited exceptions. No one will bother to pay in to see a series of challenge games. What the McDonagh teams need is a realistic (but not guaranteed) prospect of staying in the Leinster Championship when promoted. Just make the championship 7 teams. The bottom two to three teams will have a proper battle to stay up. It gives the promoted teams a better chance to maintain their status, build in the championship by playing top teams but also by having to earn it." I agree with all you say until the last bit about just expanding to seven teams, and this is based purely on scheduling rather than the idea itself. The current system of six teams takes five rounds of matches, and throw in a free weekend, to make it six weeks needed in total. Playing a round-robin with seven teams actually takes seven rounds, and maybe brings the need for a second free weekend as well. So now you're looking at eight or nine weeks total. Finding that extra two or three weekends required would be difficult. Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 4086 - 29/09/2026 20:50:15 2695590 Link
Replying To AllWhite: "This is a classic GAA non solution. They never get tired of creating new tiers and coming up with over complicated and ineffective formats where the winners of a weaker tier play the losers of stronger tier. This does nothing to fix any of the problems. First, for the bottom four Leinster Championship teams all that'll happen is that you'll have removed the opportunity to consistently play top opposition. Playing a one off knockout out game against the losers of the stronger group as a "reward", is not a substitute for playing stronger teams consistently. Second, you'll weaken the Joe McDonagh by removing too many teams to the point that its in no way a useful preparation to play at a higher level. The standard of the Christy Ring Cup was similarly damaged when they started removing teams and ultimately creating the Joe McDonagh. Third, the top tier of the Leinster Championship will be extraordinarily boring. Odds are that all four teams will make the semis year in year out with limited exceptions. No one will bother to pay in to see a series of challenge games. What the McDonagh teams need is a realistic (but not guaranteed) prospect of staying in the Leinster Championship when promoted. Just make the championship 7 teams. The bottom two to three teams will have a proper battle to stay up. It gives the promoted teams a better chance to maintain their status, build in the championship by playing top teams but also by having to earn it." Round robin statistics don't suggest that the top 4 group would make the semi final every year. Galway, Wexford and Dublin have all been inconsistent. Offaly are improving but one good underage team isn't enough to sustain that consistently. I would be most worried about the top team in the second group to be honest. Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4680 - 29/09/2026 21:38:32 2695602 Link
The 3 tiered solution just seems like an offering that something was offered while eventually keeping the status quo. Green Proposal: status quo. Red Proposal: 3 tiered offering. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 10081 - 29/09/2026 22:40:54 2695618 Link
Replying To AllWhite: "This is a classic GAA non solution. They never get tired of creating new tiers and coming up with over complicated and ineffective formats where the winners of a weaker tier play the losers of stronger tier. This does nothing to fix any of the problems. First, for the bottom four Leinster Championship teams all that'll happen is that you'll have removed the opportunity to consistently play top opposition. Playing a one off knockout out game against the losers of the stronger group as a "reward", is not a substitute for playing stronger teams consistently. Second, you'll weaken the Joe McDonagh by removing too many teams to the point that its in no way a useful preparation to play at a higher level. The standard of the Christy Ring Cup was similarly damaged when they started removing teams and ultimately creating the Joe McDonagh. Third, the top tier of the Leinster Championship will be extraordinarily boring. Odds are that all four teams will make the semis year in year out with limited exceptions. No one will bother to pay in to see a series of challenge games. What the McDonagh teams need is a realistic (but not guaranteed) prospect of staying in the Leinster Championship when promoted. Just make the championship 7 teams. The bottom two to three teams will have a proper battle to stay up. It gives the promoted teams a better chance to maintain their status, build in the championship by playing top teams but also by having to earn it." I agree with a lot of what you say and moving to 7 teams rather than 6 would mean that we'd probably see less yo-yoing but if you move from 6 to 7 teams, that means you move from 5 to 7 rounds Now one of those rounds would be a bye and as things stand, 6 teams play 5 games across 6 weeks so maybe you could have 7 teams play 6 games across 7 weeks but that would seem like an awful lot, the league had 7 games playing six games but that was across 9 weeks I think a better format would involve 7 teams in Leinster but as part of a Swiss Model like the CL Provincial KOs Provincial Finalists in Pot A, Provincial Semi-Finalists in Pot B, and Provincial Quarter-Finalists in Pot C for the All-Ireland stage Every team must play two teams from each pot so a total of six games but the provincial games count towards the overall table and if you've already played against say a Pot A team in the Provincials, then you only have to play one other Pot A team to make up your six games Top 2 in the overall table after six games straight through to the AISFs, next 4 in the AIQFs, 11th plays 12th in the relegation final ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1551 - 29/09/2026 22:52:08 2695620 Link
Replying To ElGranSenor: "I'm in favour of there being mixed groups after a Provincial KO but the Provincial results would have to feed into the mixed groups IMO, could maybe make it work under a Swiss model but I fear that some may view a Swiss model as too complex" My feed to mixed groups: HURLING LIAM MCCARTHY CUP (14 teams; could be amended to other 'even quantity' of teams) All teams play mixed-province, inter-group ties, encompassing all Prov 'KO ties', prior to AIC KO - Munster KO 5 & Leinster KO 9 - AIC with two groups of 7 (A & B) - Groups 'formed', not drawn (after Prov SFs) - Muns QF loser to Group A, winner to B - SF1 opponent of Muns QF winner to A - Muns Finalists placed in opposite groups - Muns SF losers to opposite groups - There is a Muns trio in A & pair in B - Lein Prelim winner to Group A, loser to B - QF1 opponent of Lein Prelim winner to B - Lein QF1 & QF2 winners (SF1); Lein QF3 & QF4 winners (SF2); and Lein Finalists, each placed in a group opposite teams played - Lein QF & SF losers, each to a group opposite teams played - There is a Lein quartet in A & quintet in B - Merge to form two groups of 7 (A & B) - Each team completes a 7-game inter-group schedule, including all their Prov KO ties (1-4) - Prov KO is 'winner on the day' (1 point each, if drawn at full time) - All teams play in the last inter-group round on June 6/7, including Prov Finals [could be June 20/21 if AIC Finals were flipped (football first) and played on opposite sides of the August Bank Holiday weekend] - Top 6 of 14-team table advance to AIC KO - Top 2 earn QF byes (not necessarily including Prov Champs) - AIC KO targets non-repeat 'intra-group ties' - AI QFs could be 3v6 & 4v5 (if non repeat) - 14th relegated/ McDonagh Champ promoted - Multiple 'Kildares' stay up - Reduce NHL schedule, if necessary omahant (USA) - Posts: 3570 - 29/09/2026 23:20:51 2695622 Link
Replying To ElGranSenor: "I'm in favour of there being mixed groups after a Provincial KO but the Provincial results would have to feed into the mixed groups IMO, could maybe make it work under a Swiss model but I fear that some may view a Swiss model as too complex" My Swiss version for Lein SHC: - Three pot tiers 1, 2 & 3 (4 teams each) - Split each pot into two pairs, A & B - Six pairs then (1A/1B; 2A/2B; 3A/3B) - Each team plays 4 games - Schedule 1A v (1B & 2B); 1B v 2A; 2A v 3B; 2B v 3A; 3A v 3B - Tier 1 top 2 & Tier 2 winner to Lein SFs; Tier 1 3rd v Tier 2 2nd to Lein QF; Tier 2 bottom 2 v Tier 3 top 2 in McD Cup SFs; Tier 3 bottom 2 to Relegation Final omahant (USA) - Posts: 3570 - 29/09/2026 23:53:59 2695623 Link
This is a typical Hurling community response to a problem that has existed since the foundationof the GAA. They believe they have the best sport in the world but cannot understand why more people don't play it. The answer must be the fact that the weaker counties, are only weaker because they don't get to play inter County hurling at the top level. Has anyone ever presented evidence to show that Hurling is growing in these countries that would support lifting these counties out of current status? As much as I may have different views with Liam Griffin at least he understands the numbers game at underage. Hurling like Rugby used to think the hard man image was a way to promote the game, while not seeing the world change in front of them. Yet today we still see people with the same attitudes not understanding that the very virtues they prompte are whats killing the game. zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2242 - 30/09/2026 02:07:59 2695626 Link
What incentive is there for winning the McDonagh Cup (2nd tier AI championship) in this new proposed system? Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 953 - 30/09/2026 09:59:06 2695637 Link

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Tiered Leinster SHC