If there's a hurling county in this country that fascinates me, it's Antrim. While all the other hurling counties are geographically located right next to each other, Antrim are right up there in the corner, and what's more, it's the corner of a seriously weak hurling province. While I understand hurling still plays second fiddle to football, I have always seen Antrim as a hurling county and been fascinated by them. They have had some genuinely very good club teams, including the present bunch from Loughgiel, and in the late 80's and early 90's were great at inter county level. They also gave Tipperary and Wexford very good games in 2002 and 2003. They led Tipperary at half time in 2002 when they were All-Ireland champions, and it was only in the last 10 minutes that Tipp eventually broke away. In 2003, they really should have beaten Wexford. Since then, they haven't done a whole pile, but their club teams continue to command respect even if it's not instantly forthcoming.

Apparently, there are very passionate hurling people in Antrim, every bit as passionate as you would get down the country. But where does it come from when it can't be explained geographically? And the same applies to Down. And what about the Derry team in 2000 that gave that great Offaly side a massive fright?

Antrim have struggled since moving to the Leinster championship. Hurling is almost non existent in Monaghan and Cavan, while most of the others are weak. But here's a suggestion I've heard recently that MIGHT just invigorate Ulster hurling.

I think a combined Ulster team, as an experiment for a few years before reflection on what it's done, could be a decent idea. When you consider how weak Ulster is, and that they never even won a Railway cup, they will not challenge for All-Irelands. But they should be competitive enough. They might get some kind of support. And they offer a chance to be part of a more serious team for players from Fermanagah, Monaghan, Tyrone, Cavan, Armagh and Donegal, as well as the traditionally stronger Ulster counties to be part of a stronger Championship team.

Logisitically, it could prove problematic. But I feel it's effects could be positive, and might put hurling back in the limelight in it's least succesful province.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 17/07/2013 20:01:48    1434920

I didn't say Antrim were 'great' at inter county level in the 80's/90's...I gave a slang interpretation of 'not bad at all'.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 17/07/2013 20:12:47    1434923

Not a good idea then clearly haha...

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 17/07/2013 21:50:58    1434994

You've probably had no response because this thread had been done twice in the last 8 weeks. Read back over them for your answers.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 18/07/2013 09:19:52    1435030

Before in the mid 1800s (when the coast road was built), the Glens of Antrim were as accessible from Scotland as from Ireland. There was a lot of market trade and emigration both ways, and a very healthy Shinty culture. The song 'Airde Cuan'/'Ard Tí Chuain' tells the story of a man who had to leave his home in the Glens for Scotland because of the famine, and he reminisces about Hurling at Christmas on the White Strand (Cushendun). Shinty was a sport played by both traditions in the north up until early 1900s, but sadly the Ulster Scots tradition has become extinct, whilst it has thrived with the Irish population. This is in part due to the GAA clubs forming and players taking up the standardised GAA rules (Hurling) from 1903.

Belfast, on the other hand, had set up GAA hurling clubs in the inaugral year of the GAA with 5 hurling clubs in 1885. It wasn't many years though before the Glens and North Antrim became more competitive and successful than the South Antrim counterparts.

It is interesting now that there is a drive to try and bring shinty back to the Protestant population in the north:
http://www.shinty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Scottish-Schools-Shinty-Hurling-International-04-09-10.pdf
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/how-shinty-and-rangers-teamed-up-to-help-unite-divided-belfast-1.1052957
If Antrim could tap that resource (70% of the population) it would have a formidable hurling team in the future (but it wont).

muffin (Antrim) - Posts: 128 - 18/07/2013 12:32:35    1435179

it wont work. maybe slightly better than what you currently get from Ulster, but lets be honest, you could give the Ulster Hurling Council an All Star select team and they would arrange maybe three annual training sessions and you'd have to wait for the draw in the football qualifiers to see where they could accommodate your fixtures.

Topa_the_left (Antrim) - Posts: 250 - 18/07/2013 13:01:23    1435216

Apparently, there are very passionate hurling people in Antrim, every bit as passionate as you would get down the country. But where does it come from when it can't be explained geographically?

Could also have been down to the fact that there was a Glens of Antrim Gaeltacht and the lack of plantation within the Glens (where arguably the hurling stronghold within the county is). The Glens were always (and probably still is) an area left to their own devices due to the 'wild way' of the people which discouraged any of the Scottish or English planters from taking land here. The Coast road was mentioned and before it was built the Glens were pretty inaccessible with no real roads in (or out!) so the 'Irish' way of life was always strong and continues to be in this area of North Antrim. Its therefore no real surprise then that interest in hurling, the more ancient of the games, has dwindled in other counties while remaining strong in Antrim due to the Glens influence.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 18/07/2013 14:05:18    1435274

That's a terrific post muffin, very interesting stuff indeed and it explains a lot about where the hurling comes from in these areas. If you look at where the hurling is played in all the other counties, geography is everything. Only Dublin are not connected to the vast hurling plane in the South, and that is because they have the advantage of massive funding to promote the game. One thing is for sure, I would love to see Antrim having success, as it's effects would be immense. Sadly, it looks as far away as it ever did, but there's still a lot of passion for hurling in Antrim by the looks of it.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 18/07/2013 14:06:21    1435275

The Glens is a rocky, hilly place with mainly sheep farming and consequently the Planters left it alone because it wasn't fertile enough land for crops. Catholics were allowed to continue farming it and a strong Irish speaking corner of Ulster was left to it's own devices. Hurling and forms of it were always in Ulster and in and around the Glens which was only accessible by sea right up to the late 19th century. The Antrim coast road is the main thoroughfare and is probably one of the most scenic, beautiful drives in Europe. Antrim hurling has been treated shabbily by Croke Park and is struggling at the minute but has not got anywhere near the support the established counties have. Antrim GAA will NEVER consider a combined Ulster team. Look at Dublin to see what can happen with the right support. At the minute Antrim doesn't need or want patronising slaps on the back or sympathy; it needs practical help from the Ulster Council and Croke Park.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9822 - 18/07/2013 14:24:28    1435289

I was always fascinated by why hurling survived in isolated parts of Ulster such as parts of Fermanagh. Was it an actual survival or was it introduced from outside?

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 18/07/2013 14:58:45    1435327

Just found a reference to hurling - called camán - being played in Fermanagh before the foundation of the GAA. Keeping the game going there is massive acheivement in fairness.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 18/07/2013 15:03:44    1435333

This is turning into a fascinating discussion. Thanks for all the replies.

I think it's a great shame that the GAA have not helped Antrim in the way they have helped Dublin, if what is posted above is true. Is it because it is in the GAA's interest to promote the game in a city that can bring in huge crowds to them on a regular basis, like they do in the football? It seems a bit shabby to promote it so poorly in a county that, in parts at least, is so passionate about hurling.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 18/07/2013 15:14:53    1435339

Treaty_Exile - the below link takes you to a presentation (in slide form) of the history of the GAA in the Glens of Antrim. 155 odd slides but interesting all the same if you have a spare half hour or hour to go through it:

http://www.slideshare.net/martinmccarry/the-gaa-in-the-glens-of-antrim

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 18/07/2013 15:48:31    1435363

By far the biggest problem in north Antrim is that hurling people actually physically hate people from other clubs. Most people in Ireland see county over club being of greater importance, and can row in behind each other for a greater good, but club is everything there.

It's also a problem in football in Antrim, especially between city and country clubs.

The GAA could and would invest more in Ulster hurling, but the Ulster county boards see hurling as a threat to football.

muffin (Antrim) - Posts: 128 - 18/07/2013 15:59:54    1435369

Shinty was originally brought to Scotland by the Gaels. There were 2 forms of hurling in Ireland. Mountain/winter hurling & Leinster/summer hurling, the latter being more akin to what we know it as today, the former very like shinty. Here's a good link on its history: link

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 18/07/2013 16:07:26    1435379

Not much point in the GAA investing in Antrim hurling when the clubs hate each other!!!

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 18/07/2013 16:36:07    1435394

It does need to sort its internal problems out before looking for investment, in truth they are quite well healed as for years the divide was city v country that divide has died down now, but even when it did exist the county players did well together, where as now there is a childish rivalry going on between a couple of country clubs which is also holding us back.

Another problem we have is when ever we bring in an outside manager they never get their foot in the door before being roped in by "good" antrim hurling people, if these people face facts truth be told they have prejudices against the different grades of hurling, different geographical ares and different clubs from those they see as real hurling. Quite comical really but so frustrating to those who would die to wear the jersey only not to have the same level of talent or other reasons they did not make it such as injury.

I hope we can sort things out, but we are a long way off, i fear Kevin Ryan is the current victim of these "good" hurling people but im willing to give him a chance, it was his first year, so he will already be plotting his plan of attack for 2014.

Our structures and mindset in antrim is a elitist and also defeatist in the same light, we dont have a proper reserve structure meaning if a young fella gets injured at minor he will never come through to senior in the majority of clubs as they dont have somewhere for him to go, this in turn brings me to our awful u21 set up at club and county.

We need development leagues similar to that of south antrim and north antrim junior PROPERLY graded for players to get good senior experience, in 1989 belfast had two divisions in south antrims junior league, now they have 5 teams. North Antrim is good but their is too much of a gap in quality from top to bottom.

Our u12, 14, 16 and minor structures are good and have went all county which is of benefit to a lot of clubs, now we must drive on and create proper development leagues at adult level for boys coming out of minor to allow them to build their physical game and not have these teams clustered up with has beens.

Bit off the beaten track here but a few of the issues we have.

North Side Gael (None) - Posts: 1076 - 18/07/2013 17:50:49    1435457

Treaty_Exile
County: Limerick
Posts: 86
Iknow you will probably not read this. Alas I will try anyway. I started this exact same topic about a months ago. As did another poster. the topic has now been discussed on this site ad infinitum and no new info has been unearthed except that antrim do not want it. I dont know how you didnt see the thread I started but how bad. This thread did give some informative info about antrim hurling history and about the ulter GAA councils frankly applaing view of the promotion of hurling which they would rather see dead and buried.

Fishermantom (Limerick) - Posts: 569 - 18/07/2013 20:20:08    1435592