Its a funny one. In modern football, a supersub is as important as any player you have. Kmac for Dublin being a prime example. When a game is in the melting pot with 20 to go, a top class player coming on and the impact he makes on a game can be the winning of a match. Witness last years AI Final, Kerrys super sub was going to be Galvin, Dublins was Kmac. The 20 mins in JOC plays his card too early. So when the game was in the melting pot with 20 to go, Kerry had no "impact players" to bring on, we brought on Kmac and he changed the game.
Remember PC for Tyrone in 08!

So the question is, with the supersub impact in mind and how it can win you and lose you a game, do managers, should managers, hold back one of their 6 best forwards to that very reason. Is it plausable to start only 5 of your best 6 with an eye to bringing on number 6 to "win you the game" against tired legs in the last 20. Do you start a potentially weaker player in the hope he can do a job and when the time comes, he makes way for the impact man?
Or should you just start your best 6 and trust them to do the job for 70 mins and dont mind this supersub nonsense :)

Ironically if, as some reports are suggesting Gilroy actually does call CKK into the Dubs squad this year, then Kmac could see himself starting every game only to be the man to make way for the "new supersub" when games get tasty!

Swings and roundabouts!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8170 - 23/05/2012 10:03:19    1178576

If only JH could see our Ciaran Mac would be the finest super sub any team could ever have.

51longago (Mayo) - Posts: 2981 - 23/05/2012 10:10:42    1178583

No, if a coach deliberately leaves one of their best players on the sideline "just in case" theyre needed to change the game later on they are saying i dont have the confidence in my starting 15 to beat the oppositions 15.
In my view you should start your best 15 and if they are not good enough then the opposition is better than you.
Not starting one of your best players is just silly mind games

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 23/05/2012 10:19:22    1178589

At this stage some teams wont starts there six best forwards as it does not suit there game plan I.e Wex with Colm Morris who is a wing back put placed in the Wong forward line to pick up loose ball... U should always start with the players showing the best in training and at this stage of intercounty level it would be very rare that a team wouldn't have four or five forwards of the same calibre fighting over three or four places... To answer your question for me I would start with my best team

wexcore (Wexford) - Posts: 740 - 23/05/2012 10:21:25    1178592

Start your best players definitely. Look at Darren O'Sullivan. He was considered an impact sub player and last year he was surely 5 minutes away from being footballer of the year. All these sub decisions are all only judged masterstrokes in hindsight anyway. How many matches have players put on to make no impact at all or do well and end up on the losing side where no-one remembers them?

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 23/05/2012 10:47:17    1178612

Lads, I see ye're point, but say last year in the final with 20 to go, if we didnt have Kmac on the bench to bring on..........would we have won Sam? The Ultimate Prize...?
Starting him would he have made so much of a difference that Kerry would not have been ahead by 4 with 5 to go?

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8170 - 23/05/2012 11:07:17    1178631

Would Kildare have bet Tyrone if Fogarty didn't come on?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 23/05/2012 11:20:04    1178644

If the referee had noticed McManamon bouncing the ball twice on his own 50-yard line while the game was level would he still have been such a super-sub?

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 23/05/2012 11:35:10    1178664

If the referee had noticed McManamon bouncing the ball twice on his own 50-yard line while the game was level would he still have been such a super-sub? >>>>>Agreed.

And if the ref noticed he took about 10 steps in the build up to the goal, he wouldnt of been much of a super-sub either.

Patchy (Kerry) - Posts: 74 - 23/05/2012 11:45:21    1178678

If only we all had a super sub

Southsham (Limerick) - Posts: 753 - 23/05/2012 12:31:55    1178724

Billy Byrne, the greatest super sub ever.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 23/05/2012 14:33:17    1178855

I think a lot of it depends on circumstances - panel size, strength in depth, etc. For the smaller counties such as ourselves, we're not going to leave the likes of Ciarán Lyng or Red Barry on the bench in the hope that they will make an impact with twenty minutes to go. We simply don't have the depth of talent to in any way compensate for their loss. Whereas say if Lyng was from Dublin, he might not make the starting fiftenn (i.e. they have many players of similar quality) but he would make their panel and would be a great sub for them to have.

Then you obviously have players who are a step above these, the likes of Gooch, Bernard Brogan, I think Colm O'Neill will come into this category in time... you always start these players.

To sum it up, if you just have six forwards who you reckon are up to the mark then I wouldn't drop one of them just so he can potentially make an impact later on. However if you have seven, eight or nine guys who you believe are up to the job (like a lot of the top counties do) then there's no harm considering who may make the best impact later on.

Paddywex (Wexford) - Posts: 12 - 23/05/2012 14:52:49    1178867

Pinkie
County: Wexford
Posts: 1987

1178855
Billy Byrne, the greatest super sub ever.


my choice would be Peter Canavan

Floops (Dublin) - Posts: 1623 - 23/05/2012 15:20:55    1178896

Ya can't beat Seamus Darby

Southsham (Limerick) - Posts: 753 - 23/05/2012 15:43:00    1178915

first off kev mcmannoman hasnt got 70 minutes in him thats why i feel hes best at coming on when a game is looser and players are tired his direct approach to run at teams works so it is a far better idea keeping him as a sub.
meath had jodie devine no good when he started super when he came on changed games on his own.
differant players are suited to this role so it does work if you have the right players for it.
where as gilroy left whelan and shane ryan on bench v kerry 09 that didnt work.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 23/05/2012 15:52:25    1178928

Seanie Walsh.............nobody comes close.

Cute_Kerry_Hoor (Kerry) - Posts: 2518 - 23/05/2012 16:27:31    1178961

If he started he wouldn't be a sub never mind a super sub!

ballybannongael (Down) - Posts: 547 - 23/05/2012 16:59:33    1179007

Padraig Joyce and Michael Meehan -supersubs in the making?

fairplay4ever (Galway) - Posts: 461 - 23/05/2012 18:30:21    1179099

Tommy Freeman for the Farney men today! Came off the bench and kicked two crucial scores.

gaelicgab (USA) - Posts: 884 - 27/05/2012 18:33:26    1181383