I have been saying that Kilkenny have been crossing the line for years and getting away with it. A few things they do better than anybody else and seem to be allowed to do so:
1. Stick the hurl in over the shoulders or between the legs to slow opposition players down and make sure they cannot get rid of the ball easily or go on a solo run
2. Take too many steps when heading for goal or trying to get out of trouble.
3. They also definitely tend to hold onto the opposition player, just little tugs or bumps.
Hey if they get away with it fair play to them. I'm surprised everybody else hasn't started doing it aswell because the tactics have been obvious for years.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 18/05/2012 10:38:55    1174961

I think this has been covered before, more than once.

jonny1951 (Mayo) - Posts: 1431 - 18/05/2012 10:59:16    1174973

about time somebody reported the other side of Kilkenny's 'physicality'
much of it is dirty and illegal

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1931 - 18/05/2012 11:01:08    1174974

unfussy refs suits the whole system...

dubbydave. (Dublin) - Posts: 3927 - 18/05/2012 11:01:46    1174977

If Kilkenny can get away with it so can Wexford, Galway, Cork, Tipp etc etc etc. Its up to the ref to pull up these fouls and I for one do not blame the Kilkenny lads one bit for "bending the rules". If our own players were a little bit cuter they'd also get away with it.

tribetastic (Galway) - Posts: 36 - 18/05/2012 11:03:59    1174978

Tend to agree with tribetastic. It would be hypocritical of anyone from Dublin to be slagging them off given that Daly is keen to take them on!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 18/05/2012 11:24:32    1175001

The successful Wexford and Clare teams of the 90's weren't exactly full of angels.

Outsider222 (UK) - Posts: 95 - 18/05/2012 11:44:55    1175022

Like it or not its what all great teams do, they play right on the border line of the rules and that is what makes kk great. How they get away with the pushing of the helmet while the ball is in the air or dragging of the face guard is the only one I would like to see been stopped.

therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 18/05/2012 12:43:48    1175080

It's a man game, get on with it.
As Brian Cody said when asked about Tommy Walsh playing on the edge, 'Where else do you want him playing'

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 18/05/2012 13:41:22    1175152

What bothers me is Kilkenny being perceived as being Dirty. I won't say any Kilkenny player is dirty, just cuter and more physical than many other counties.

KKid (Kilkenny) - Posts: 421 - 18/05/2012 14:09:17    1175188

Kilkenny are not dirty. They have a couple of players who flout the law from time to time (and sometimes get away with it which I do not like) but overall they are not dirty. The one major issue I have is the amount of steps their forwards are sometimes allowed get away with, and that changing their body position or stance means the referee re-starts the counter.
But overall I think KK play on the edge and I think other counties need to join them on that edge and up their game (my own included). They have taken physicality to a new level but overall I think it is fair physicality but I think occasionally players do over-step the mark and do get away with it. That is what the referees need to cut out.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 18/05/2012 14:58:55    1175252

I also do not think that Kilkenny are not a dirty team (or certainly no more dirty than anybody else). This Kilkenny team get widely praised for being the greatest team of all time and rightly so (in fact one Kilkenny poster even started a thread on this forum about two weeks ago inviting people on to lavish his favourite team with praise). However, if you are successful you must expect that your team is going to come under more scrutiny than the rest of teams. It is essentially the cost of being successful-every aspect of your game gets analysed.

If Dublin, Wexford, Clare etc were the share the next 10 Leinster/All-Irelands/Leagues etc between them (essentially meaning KK win nothing) then nobody is going to mention KK style of play. The focus would switch. Ultimately would Kilkenny people prefer that???

I agree with therealtmo, helmets are there to protect players from injury or decrease the risk of injury to a persons head. Umpires and linsemen should be given a mandate to watch very very carefully for any player that interferes with another's helmet. This practice is realtively new and hurling got on fine without. It should be stamped out.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 18/05/2012 18:19:57    1175484

bennybunny
County: Cork
Posts: 1338

1175484 I also do not think that Kilkenny are not a dirty team .

DOES THIS MEAN YE THINK KILKENNY ARE A DIRTY TEAM. HA HA.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 18/05/2012 21:30:24    1175616

What a pathetic thread, the OP should rename the thread title "we're sick of losing to Kilkenny and jealous of all their recent success"

The whole game of hurling has changed over the last 20 year or so, its become much more physical, Ger Loughnanes Clare teams the catalyst, compete or else!.

Every single one of the top teams are as cynical and as physical as Kilkenny, but where Kilkenny win out is they've a superior skill level to coincide with the physical side of the game, but of course their jealous retractors find it hard to find it within themselves to acknowledge this fact, any praise thats afforeded Kilkenny from rival supporters is done through gritted teeth, what you call faint praise.

kildarecat22 (Kildare) - Posts: 257 - 19/05/2012 12:33:43    1175731

Nick
County: Wexford
Posts: 792
2. Take too many steps when heading for goal or trying to get out of trouble.

Got to agree with you on point no 2 Nick. As gifted as DJ Carey was, he got away so many times with taking extra steps. I think referees at the time could not count his steps as he was so fast.
But generally I don't think KK get any more easy refereeing decisions in their favour than any other team.
Also, as a dirty team, only one KK players stands out, and that is Tommy Walsh. A fearless and skillful player, but he has a tendancy to get away with some dirty strokes during matches.

Goatsucker (Offaly) - Posts: 265 - 19/05/2012 15:47:22    1175840

Hard to disagree. The hurl up behind the helmet is what has Tommy Walsh looking like the greatest fielder of a ball in the world. Also, the thing they and Cork do more than anyone is hook the handpass. Hooking a handpass is illegal. You can't play a fellas arm with your hurl legally. It's not possible. Watch the amount of handpasses KK or Cork hook the next time they play. Because they pull arms and give little tugs and that, the opposition ball carrier is surrounded quickly. He has no hope of getting rid of the ball as his handpass gets hooked. Which means the 5 KK guys on the man take the ball. Hooking the handpass and the hurl under the helmet should be the top fould refs need to follow.

Also, regarding steps with the ball, there are two points. Refs dont count steps. When a player gets the ball a ref will count to 4 seconds. If the player hasn't played the ball, no matter how many steps they've taken, a ref will whistle. Also, referees allow advantage. So, you take 4 steps, get challenged (a borderline challenge let's say) and the ref gives you another 4 steps. Watch Brian Hogan or Sean Halpin use this trick in most games.

Another good one is Shefflin's push off tactic. He runs straight for a defender, then uses his hurl to push the defender back (usually to the faceguard) and gives him enough time to shoot. Tommy Walsh and Niall McCarthy use this frequently.

I guess a lot of it is now going similar to football. The only way for teams to beat KK, Cork or Tipp is to start employing all of these tactics themselves. Ground hurling is gone. Swarm tackling and bunch defending are in. The rest of the hurling world needs to cop on to it. The refs won't save them.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2592 - 21/05/2012 12:32:42    1177013

RULE 1.7: The ball may be carried in the hand for a maximum of four consecutive steps or held in the hand for no longer than the time needed to take four steps.

There is no mention of a player tackling you meaning you get another 4 steps icehonesty. In general you are right in your observations though.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 21/05/2012 13:28:08    1177103

Let's not be kidding ourselves here. Silken get away with fouling a lot more than other teams and Brian Cody has a lot to do with this. Why do you think he came out again before the League final, hoping that the referee would "let the game flow", and not spoil it? When you come to think about it what this means is: "let the fouls go", since no referee is going to whistle when he doesn't think a foul has occurred. It also means that Cody encourages his team to foul to gain advantage. What other intreptation can you put on this constant criticism of referees?

A referee is only doing his job when he gives a free. If he blows his whistle a lot, it means the players are fouling a lot. It is the players who spoil a game, not the referee. The rules on aggressive fouling are there for a reason and that reason is player safety.

The way it stands at the moment, with most referees officiating according to Brian Cody's rules, rather the rules in the Official guide, aggressive fouling is increasing among all hurling teams. Since helmets came in, the strikes at a player's head/face are also increasing and some day some one will suffer a serious injury because of this. Sheflin, himself, came very near loosing his eye in one game. Sadly, it seems the GAA won't cop itself on until this does happen.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 646 - 21/05/2012 13:59:56    1177157

Pinkie: I agree. I was trying to say that the rule is 4 steps, but referees allow 4 steps, then a tackle, then another 4. Which they shouldn't do. It's even worse in football.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2592 - 21/05/2012 14:12:24    1177176

Sorry icehoonesty, I thought you were saying that it was OK to do that.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 21/05/2012 14:40:11    1177208