Lads sorry for changing the subject with the game so close at hand but i'm very curious about one of gaelic footballs all time great managers, i don't know much about the meath team of 87-88 that won 2 back to back all irelands but i know quite a bit about the 96 and 99 winning teams, even bought the meath top in 99 down in galway city believe it or not. I think every gaa person in Ireland knows how good sean boylan was as a manager he built 2 teams who won 2 all Ireland's and thats exactly the reason i have started this thread.
We in tyrone have been blessed to have mickey harte a 3 time all Ireland winning manager who is rightly revered all over the country as one of the greats, but these days mickeys skills have been questioned by some of the tyrone support as having been in the job too long, being to cautious, afraid to change etc....( not myself as i see mickey as the man to take us back to an all Ireland) and some are calling for him to step down from his position. My question is, how did the people of meath treat sean boylan when it took him 8 years between 88 and 96, were there many calling for his head, questioning why this guy was starting and this guy wasn't, its been 5 years since we landed the sam maguire so in my opinion we should leave mickey too it but i'd be interested to hear your views as supporters who have saw a team built, dismantled and rebuilt?...

duke_raul (Tyrone) - Posts: 993 - 27/07/2013 16:39:42    1443867

It took him 5 years to win an All Ireland but Meath remember had won the Centenary Cup in 84 and then made their big break through when they beat Dublin to win the Leinster title in 86 so there was a good big of success leading up to the holy grail of an All Ireland. Unfortunately they came up against an ageing yet still better Kerry team that had done it all in 86 so there was still some learning to do. Worth pointing out too that during the progression, Meath held Dublin to a draw in the Leinster Championship in 83 ( 3-9 to 0-18 if I'm not mistaken ) so there were signs of progress.

So to answer your question, I'd say Meath fans were very welcoming of Boylan once these results were achieved and it wasn't a completely barren spell from 82 to 87.

Laytown Legend (None) - Posts: 424 - 28/07/2013 12:35:16    1444504

To be honest the first championship I ever remember was 1996 (a great start it has to be said!) but from what I've heard and seen results wise the only time Boylan was really in trouble between 88 and 96 was after the 95 Leinster final when Dublin beat us by 10 points. A few people would have been calling for his head at the time but Boylan had done wonderful things for Meath football and deserved a certain amount of leeway.

Mickey Harte is in similar boat at Tyrone, his team isn't what it was when he won 3 All-Irelands but like Boylan he deserves a few more years at least to rebuild his team because of what he's done for Tyrone football. I don't think there is anybody calling for his head up Tyrone though is there?

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 28/07/2013 12:47:23    1444523

Htaem
County: Meath
Posts: 4182

To be honest htaem there has always been plenty of tyrone support who have had an axe to grind with mickey and alot of them used his selecting of his son and nephew as a reason to have a go at him,if you have a look through some of the threads on the tyrone page there are a few posters who are mad looking him gone and if we'd lost yesterday they would all be calling for his head today ( some people have very short memories indeed ).
When looking at boylans record and the length he was in the job it definitely gives me hope that we can have a second coming with mickey at the helm and although we aren't the force we once were that its not impossible to get back to the top however i just don't know if we have the players coming through, reading mickey hartes autobiography he was managing the tyrone minors in 93 we we won ulster and met a meath team in that all Ireland semi final that contained darren fay,trevor giles,ollie murphy,barry callaghan and hank trainor thats some batch of players to get of the one team 3 short years later they had won it at senior both counties could do with another batch like that coming through ( our 97 runners up 98 winners ).

duke_raul (Tyrone) - Posts: 993 - 28/07/2013 13:28:52    1444577

My advice would to stick with harte you will not find better and cause alot of change thats not going to result in any silverware,people in tyrone have become used to winning and its hard when d wins dry up believe me we know what thats like,this is the hard part winning sam is hard and u need 7,8 very good footballers who are better in their positions than any other team and who will die tryin to get the ball the players are not their now as d likes of fay gilles geraghty john mac ,canavan dooher oneill sean cavanagh dont grow on trees ,so get d young fellas out playin and maybein a few years meath vs tryone all ireland final will uhave to have a dream

matthematx (Meath) - Posts: 177 - 28/07/2013 14:11:32    1444638

if meath supporters are honest with themselves the transition from the team of the late 80's to the team of the 90's wasnt as smooth as we like to believe defeat to laois in 1992 in navan was a big blow alot of people were calling for his exit, we won the 1994 league with a mix of old and young whitch calmed things a little but the 10 point defeat to dublin in the 1995 caused a stir in meath and it went to a vote between Boylan and the late Shane Mcentee (who had a good record at club level at the time winning an intermediate title with ballinlough) it was a close vote Boylan winning by 7 or 8 in the end i believe and the rest as they say is history meath won the 1996 AI and no one questioned boylan again for 10 years. i suppose as Conor Counihan said last night in his interview with rte radio when your in a high profile job any defeat can lead to harsh critism. Boylan like harte today was well spoken and very calm in all situations an absolute legend.

late_and_high (Meath) - Posts: 130 - 28/07/2013 14:29:01    1444665

Sorry - had read your initial post wrong and thought you were talking about the pre-All Ireland days.

Yes there were days when many thought it was over and yes 92 was the big one with that defeat to Laois.

BUT, Meath had had tremendous underage success around then so I'm surely Sean Boylan knew that the renaissance wouldn't be far away. Also people talk about Dublin beating Meath by 10 points in 95 but even the great man says in his autobiography, that it was only in the last 15 mins that Dublin pulled away, and that against a Meath team that had come to the end of it's cycle - hence the injection of new players the following year that would eventually win Sam. Meath were still in that game until the lasat 15 mins and ok got well beaten at full time but were not 2nd best for all of that match or anything.

Laytown Legend (None) - Posts: 424 - 28/07/2013 15:59:19    1444830

Speaking as someone who's first ever Meath match (the drawn Leinster championship match against Dublin in '83) was also Boylan's championship bow then I think I give a detailed (if jaundiced) view of the era.

Those initial 2 games with Dublin were games we went into not expecting much (having been knocked out by Longford the year previous) but came out of feeling we let it get away. Barney Rock and his free taking was the difference between the teams as was Dublin's ability to play below average yet win through their knack of goal scoring. In 1983 Offaly were the power in Leinster having won the famous 5 in a row All Ireland the year before. Dublin went on to struggle past Cork in a replayed All Ireland semi final and then beat Galway in the infamous "Dirty Dozen" final which finished with 26 players on the pitch. Meath played the All Ireland champions soon after in the opening game of the league and the future was bright.

Meath went onto win the Centenary Cup the following spring - an open draw competition which was hotly contested by all so a first national competition had was under the hat for Boylan. They went onto lose the Leinster final against Dublin again (Padraig Lyons running all the way up from corner back to miss a penalty) and then '85 almost saw the end of the Boylan era - a defeat to Laois in Portarlington when Meath couldn't score emphasing the need to find another forward apart from O'Rourke. By all accounts SB almost walked and most in the county would have let him.

'86 was the turn around. Finally they managed to beat Dublin and set up a semi-final with the great (if aging) Kerry team who had won 6 of the previous 8 all Irelands. Meath were the much better team in the first half but a soft goal conceded just before the break sealed their fate. They went on to dominate football for the next 5 seasons, along with Cork playing in 4 of the next 5 AI finals. You will find varying views in the county as to the success of the period, certainly most agree we should have added titles in 90 and 91 and probably got away with it in 88 so when we lost to Laois in 92 again the grumbling started about moving on from SB. It didn't help that from 93-95 Dublin dominated Leinster so by the time of the 95 defeat people wanted a change at the top.

When Meath played Carlow in the first round of Leinster in 96 most commentators actually thought we'd lose. We didn't and the "team of kids" went on to win an AI. There is still a feeling in the county (my own included) that this team should have actually won more than the first team. All Irelands in 97 and 98 were there for the taking but they were caught off guard by Offaly in 98 and again in 2000 when they were AI champions. This was the last year a team didn't get a second chance - I have no doubt if they did then they could have won in 2000. Defeat in the final to Galway in 2001 was a bitter blow given how they had played so strong in getting to the final, hammering a fancied Kerry side in the semi.

From there it was all downhill. Defeat in the qualifiers in 02-04 saw us going nowhere. They should have beaten Dublin the Leinster final in 05 but couldn't and it was the end of the road for Boylan.

From our experience I would say stick with Harte for the time being. Have a plan for succession (Meath had none) and when the time is right Harte will move on but from what I've seen on Saturday night he's still got the winners instinct and won't be far off come September.

Real_Slim_Shady (Meath) - Posts: 153 - 30/07/2013 11:10:16    1447319

Good assessment there Slim Shady but I'd like to add that one of the reasons Boylan left was that he was unhappy with the structuring within the county. I think I'm fairly right in saying he opposed a league format for the club championships as it meant too many games meaning it diluted the intensity to some degree ( ie players were not at a superior level they could have been with say a minimum of 1 or 2 championship games). Having two groups of 8, meant you could afford to lose a couple of matches and still qualify for the knockout stages ( meaning players would be uaed to losing and deem it ok I suppose! ) and having 6/7 championship matches in a league format also meant too many interruptions to county teams preparations. When he saw things like this and a lack of infrastructure at underage, the writing was on the wall and the time was right to go.

Mickey Harte on the other hand has or had a conveyor belt of talent coming through but at the end of the day, games at the top top level are won by a matter on inches so it doesn't always guarantee success. Ball hits the post and goes over for the winner, keeper flicks a shot on goal millimetres wide for the loser. Plus, I think a it is much harder nowadays to win an All Irelands. Teams are so much fitter and even the perceived weaker teams nowadays are harder nuts to crack.

Laytown Legend (None) - Posts: 424 - 30/07/2013 11:59:47    1447393

Very good run through of boylan years. Some inaccuracies though. Meath couldn't have beaten dublin in the 2005 leinster final as meath didn't reach it.

Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 30/07/2013 12:52:48    1447479

Adamski - you're right - it was the first round held on the June Bank Holiday weekend. Remembered best for Ciaran Whelan taking Nigel Crawford out of it in right in front of the ref and him not having the balls to deal with it.

Feel free to point out any other innacuracies

Real_Slim_Shady (Meath) - Posts: 153 - 30/07/2013 13:31:30    1447554

Laytown Legend; Contrary to your opinion on Sean Boylans unhappiness at leaving the county squad in relation to the set up while managing them. The easy option for him was to walk away and stay away from the game but not Sean. Its great to see him back as director of football within the county at the moment , see him at alot at development squad matches along with Eamon Barry, so its vital that his expertise is being harnessed for these younger players and managers alike which can provide a huge platform for years to come. A legend and a gentleman with a huge amount of knowledge to offer all these people. Long may it last that hes with us.

cilles man (Meath) - Posts: 142 - 30/07/2013 15:04:12    1447699

Cilles man : oh absolutely and like any Meath supporter, delighted to see him still involved.

I was only making the point in relation to the original title of this thread. I'm sure if Sean Boylan had gotten his way in the early part of the 2000 years, he would had stayed on longer and Meath would have been more successful during that lean time. But yes, great to hear he's still actively involved.

Laytown Legend (None) - Posts: 424 - 31/07/2013 08:26:12    1448379

Slim Shady.. great read. Totally agree on your succession point, good managers always such have a succession plan so the job can be handed over smoothly to the next person. SB never planned for this and i would lay the blame at the the co board for this.

Also Sean while managing Meath did little or nothing to assist underage football in Meath infact I would go as far as to say he hindered and frustrated serveral minor and u21 managements. Mickey Harte is very connected to the development along with ex Tyrone footballers of under age football.

Sean along with the co board should have put in place what Tyrone have put in place over the last 5-10 years. The transition from Harte to whoever will be difficult but the next person will have it easier as Harte/ Tyrone co board and under age management teams are all working to the same plan. Doesnt mean u will produce the next Cavanagh or Geraghty, just gives you higher probability of success.

Enjoy for now, would not be suprised if Tyrone win Sam 2013!! It's wide open in my opinion and any team apart from Cavan could win it.

Northmeathman (Meath) - Posts: 284 - 31/07/2013 11:08:13    1448499

Interesting topic,

there will always be those getting the knives sharpened waiting for any kind of a slip up, that's the way it was and the way it will be.

Just thought I would Dig out this gem of a thread (hopefully link works):

http://www.hoganstand.com/laois/MessagePage.aspx?PageNumber=0&TopicID=1185


After the defeat to Down in Newry early in 2008, Harte was under some serious pressure and as the saying goes "The rest is history"

Three short months later and the Sam Maguire was sitting up the front of the team bus travelling back into Aughnacloy.

NAIL_BAR (Meath) - Posts: 457 - 31/07/2013 13:45:13    1448738

This must really be annoying Delboypolecat not commenting on this thread!!!

mawmouther (Meath) - Posts: 109 - 31/07/2013 13:52:16    1448747

Not sure I agree with the assessment that Boylan cared little for Minor and U21 - certainly the team of 96 came mostly from these ranks. The minor success in 90 and 92 came some 7-9 years after Boylan took over and although the success wasn't down to him he developed the best of these into some of the best senior footballers the county has seen.

Where Sean's great strength was lay in finding great footballers outside of the senior grades. This may have given the impression he didn't bring players through but the facts are different. Sometimes he bypassed the minor grade with players altogether if they were good enough - Brendan Reilly was an example of this.

Although I agree totally that the underage strcutures have been allowed to deteriorate disgracefully in the county over the last 20 years the County board need to be made accountable for this. They have failed in their mandate to develop the games in the county and although SB should have carried enough gravitas to make them change this I doubt one man no matter how big can do this in a county the size of Meath.

Sure Tyrone's success has come and been extended by the success of their underage teams but then you look at Kerry and the argument goes out the window. I still rather the Tyrone model myself but its not the only way.

Real_Slim_Shady (Meath) - Posts: 153 - 31/07/2013 14:17:39    1448792