Meath Forum

Club Transfers

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Replying To winatallcost:  "Disagree with you entirely here. Aside from Eastern Gaels who are very early in their development and St Paul's, I think if you look back most of the games conceded were from larger clubs 2nd teams that couldn't be bothered to take long journeys for Tuesday A leagues games. This wasn't just limited to the lowest division either. Eastern Gaels struggles were not helped by Cilles objection to transfers for players that weren't even getting games either."
Absolute rubbish, this idea that larger clubs second teams 'weren't bothered to travel' is horse dung. When both teams are fixed to play the same night around the time of county and college football as well as the usual injuries/travel/work commitments that causes lads to miss the occasional game from time to time it makes it very hard to get 40 lads out on the same night. Whether or not you agree with amalgamations (personally I think some clubs definitely need to in order to survive, but not all of the above mentioned) trying to blame walkovers on larger clubs second teams when the actual issue was with the fixtures planner is just plain wrong.

ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 07/03/2024 09:00:58    2530158

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Replying To ratlag:  "Absolute rubbish, this idea that larger clubs second teams 'weren't bothered to travel' is horse dung. When both teams are fixed to play the same night around the time of county and college football as well as the usual injuries/travel/work commitments that causes lads to miss the occasional game from time to time it makes it very hard to get 40 lads out on the same night. Whether or not you agree with amalgamations (personally I think some clubs definitely need to in order to survive, but not all of the above mentioned) trying to blame walkovers on larger clubs second teams when the actual issue was with the fixtures planner is just plain wrong."
What is your definition of a big club or a small club for that matter? I think a big club can be defined as a club with 3 or more teams while a smaller club could have 2 or less teams. The "Big" clubs I referred to would have 45 plus players as they would have 3 OFF teams. While it is not ideal fixture wise having more than one team out on same night, maybe you can explain how a club with 45 plus players couldn't field a 2nd team on same night? I have never heard of all 3 teams being out the same night.

winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 523 - 07/03/2024 10:14:51    2530163

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Replying To ratlag:  "Absolute rubbish, this idea that larger clubs second teams 'weren't bothered to travel' is horse dung. When both teams are fixed to play the same night around the time of county and college football as well as the usual injuries/travel/work commitments that causes lads to miss the occasional game from time to time it makes it very hard to get 40 lads out on the same night. Whether or not you agree with amalgamations (personally I think some clubs definitely need to in order to survive, but not all of the above mentioned) trying to blame walkovers on larger clubs second teams when the actual issue was with the fixtures planner is just plain wrong."
I don't agree that the issue was with the planner it was a club issue. A number of senior clubs plays on average 6 players on both there first and second teams. These numbers were published by the football review committee in Croke Park a few years back and its in every county. When clubs are asked to name players they will name lads who have even emigrated and its because they want to maximise their options. Last years walk overs were Feis Cup 1, Res D1 4 Res Div2 10 & Res Div 3 7. Leagues were Div 1A = 3, 2A =2, 2B=2, 3A = 7, 3B,=2. premier div 1-9 221 games played and 31 walkovers. And one of the main reason was that there were to many first teams players being used. Out of 1321 adult games played 122 walkovers and the main reason was that teams couldn't field a team and ironically this is mainly made up of senior clubs 2nd and 3rd teams. At the start of the year clubs are aske to affiliate their teams in competitions, Clubs don't give this enough thought and can be quite ambitious and will register 2, 3 or even four teams. Then when the facts are known later in the year they realise that they don't have enough players, Jimmy has gone travelling, Mikey has retired and Barry is willing to pay on all three teams. Then the wear and tear kicks in, Barry gets injured, Holidays kick in and the stags are happening. So guess what happens? O we don't have a team so we will give a walk over. Some clubs benefitted by walk overs when they went up league tables without kicking a ball. I looked through a lot of reports on HS last year and you see a lot of overlap of names on the team reports. So my point is that anyone who is close to there club/teams going on will relate to this but to also say that there is noting wrong with the planner. This year however its going to be different, named players will be published so everyone will see who is named and on what team. Senior clubs have to name 15, inter 13 and junior 11. So if a senior club has 4 teams they will have to names 39 players who wont be able to play on their 4th team. But to say its the planners is not at all true....

199710 (Meath) - Posts: 120 - 07/03/2024 10:57:01    2530173

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Replying To winatallcost:  "What is your definition of a big club or a small club for that matter? I think a big club can be defined as a club with 3 or more teams while a smaller club could have 2 or less teams. The "Big" clubs I referred to would have 45 plus players as they would have 3 OFF teams. While it is not ideal fixture wise having more than one team out on same night, maybe you can explain how a club with 45 plus players couldn't field a 2nd team on same night? I have never heard of all 3 teams being out the same night."
Yes, a big club can have 3 teams but as anyone involved in these teams will tell you, a third team is generally down in the bottom league/championship divisions and is made up of lads who solely want to play third team, train maybe once a week and do it as a social outlet rather than a competitive one and will plan their work/social life around that as it is easy and simple to do so.
Obviously I can't speak for every club but with my own for example, we gave one walk over last year with our second team on a night when that game was also scheduled with a senior game. Between county players, college, injuries and travelling we were missing 14 players so basically had our second team togging for the senior game. So even with 60 players if you remove the 14 above and then add in to that any random work related or illness issues, you still struggle even with 3 teams. I'm not saying this is the only reason and applies to every club but if those games had been one night after the other (second team playing the first night so that first team players wouldn't be risked in both) then you would have at least gotten 15-16 lads to play the second team game (any subs for the first team game would have played second team game).
I can admit that there is no perfect solution but if clubs don't have teams playing on the same night then it will massively reduce the number of walkovers because (and this is the line that irked me in your original comment) any lads who play football, even on second team is never 'not *****' travelling. Everyone wants to play football, but if you can't field a team because players are needed to fill the first team on the same night then it is a fixtures issue. This year looks to have avoided that issue so far (again only looking at my own clubs fixtures) with most games being on a Thursday/Saturday and alternating which level plays first

ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 07/03/2024 11:29:08    2530175

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Replying To 199710:  "I don't agree that the issue was with the planner it was a club issue. A number of senior clubs plays on average 6 players on both there first and second teams. These numbers were published by the football review committee in Croke Park a few years back and its in every county. When clubs are asked to name players they will name lads who have even emigrated and its because they want to maximise their options. Last years walk overs were Feis Cup 1, Res D1 4 Res Div2 10 & Res Div 3 7. Leagues were Div 1A = 3, 2A =2, 2B=2, 3A = 7, 3B,=2. premier div 1-9 221 games played and 31 walkovers. And one of the main reason was that there were to many first teams players being used. Out of 1321 adult games played 122 walkovers and the main reason was that teams couldn't field a team and ironically this is mainly made up of senior clubs 2nd and 3rd teams. At the start of the year clubs are aske to affiliate their teams in competitions, Clubs don't give this enough thought and can be quite ambitious and will register 2, 3 or even four teams. Then when the facts are known later in the year they realise that they don't have enough players, Jimmy has gone travelling, Mikey has retired and Barry is willing to pay on all three teams. Then the wear and tear kicks in, Barry gets injured, Holidays kick in and the stags are happening. So guess what happens? O we don't have a team so we will give a walk over. Some clubs benefitted by walk overs when they went up league tables without kicking a ball. I looked through a lot of reports on HS last year and you see a lot of overlap of names on the team reports. So my point is that anyone who is close to there club/teams going on will relate to this but to also say that there is noting wrong with the planner. This year however its going to be different, named players will be published so everyone will see who is named and on what team. Senior clubs have to name 15, inter 13 and junior 11. So if a senior club has 4 teams they will have to names 39 players who wont be able to play on their 4th team. But to say its the planners is not at all true...."
There will always be an overlap of players in league games for the reason I mentioned in the above post (county/work/college/injuries/travel). And if a club enters 4 teams when they barely have about 60-70 adult players in total then that is completely their own fault. However when a club does things properly and then has to field two teams on the same night at the same time, taking into account all of the above reasons for missing players then it is a problem with fixtures. There is no reason at all why a first and second team game can't played the day after each other and it then removes the excuse for a walkover on these grounds. Its about removing as much possibility for walkovers happening as possible. If a senior player plays a full game on a Tuesday night, it is highly highly unlikely that he will play again on a Wednesday for the second team, only the subs might play the second team game which still means the players are available and the walkover is avoided. The subs are also most likley second team players anyway but who are on the fringes and will be used in league games for the first team

ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 07/03/2024 11:36:41    2530177

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Replying To ratlag:  "Yes, a big club can have 3 teams but as anyone involved in these teams will tell you, a third team is generally down in the bottom league/championship divisions and is made up of lads who solely want to play third team, train maybe once a week and do it as a social outlet rather than a competitive one and will plan their work/social life around that as it is easy and simple to do so.
Obviously I can't speak for every club but with my own for example, we gave one walk over last year with our second team on a night when that game was also scheduled with a senior game. Between county players, college, injuries and travelling we were missing 14 players so basically had our second team togging for the senior game. So even with 60 players if you remove the 14 above and then add in to that any random work related or illness issues, you still struggle even with 3 teams. I'm not saying this is the only reason and applies to every club but if those games had been one night after the other (second team playing the first night so that first team players wouldn't be risked in both) then you would have at least gotten 15-16 lads to play the second team game (any subs for the first team game would have played second team game).
I can admit that there is no perfect solution but if clubs don't have teams playing on the same night then it will massively reduce the number of walkovers because (and this is the line that irked me in your original comment) any lads who play football, even on second team is never 'not *****' travelling. Everyone wants to play football, but if you can't field a team because players are needed to fill the first team on the same night then it is a fixtures issue. This year looks to have avoided that issue so far (again only looking at my own clubs fixtures) with most games being on a Thursday/Saturday and alternating which level plays first"
100% agree. Doe's appear fixtures issue is resolved tbf

Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 07/03/2024 12:01:39    2530179

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Replying To Meathooooo:  "Firstly this is my opinion. So it's as valid as you take it be. I definitely understand the concerns with regards to community etc

However lots of these clubs players go to the same schools, live in the same parish. Maybe my point should focus more on clubs within the same parish. As I actually think it's farcical having multiple clubs in one parish drawing players committees and finances from the one area.

If you go back far enough a lot of clubs are amalgamations of sorts, including St Colmcilles.

I'd reverse your point, show me a proper amalgamation (two clubs at all levels) that's failed. Because if you look at Meath Gaa there are a lot of successful amalgamations.

Turning off the lights in clubs is simply not what would happen. Ladies, Mens, Kids football requires lot of facilities. Therefore each clubs facilities could be given a specific use, or designation under the new amalgamations. Which would help with training schedules and fixture congestion.

With conceding games, I think you really need to look more closely at past seasons. Concessions are not solely down to second teams. You can't simply exclude St Paul's and EG, to validate your counter argument on a debate based on the fact that there are too many small clubs in Meath!

Together is better, in many cases.

Kilmacud Crokes have membership in the 1000s.
And I hate reference to Dublin Gaa. But facts are facts, bigger is better."
You continue to make your point with quotes. Bigger may be better when you are on one of their best teams, but that does little for the guy left on the sideline with no matches. You quote a club who continually import players just like what they do in the premiership. The GAA is a community sport with parishes in every county having one or two clubs. Again the club you quote has a pick /population greater than the total population of Leitrim, Fermanagh and Longford having only recently imported a player from Galway to win an AI, doing so with 16 players in the field of play - I think they should have only 15! -not a good example to use to further you claim.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 07/03/2024 20:52:40    2530230

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Replying To browncows:  "You continue to make your point with quotes. Bigger may be better when you are on one of their best teams, but that does little for the guy left on the sideline with no matches. You quote a club who continually import players just like what they do in the premiership. The GAA is a community sport with parishes in every county having one or two clubs. Again the club you quote has a pick /population greater than the total population of Leitrim, Fermanagh and Longford having only recently imported a player from Galway to win an AI, doing so with 16 players in the field of play - I think they should have only 15! -not a good example to use to further you claim."
Even with all their players they gave a walkover in the DIV 1 league final.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41285098.html

Islander21 (Meath) - Posts: 12 - 07/03/2024 22:19:21    2530239

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Good debate. Throwing in my tuppence worth. Clubs need to be formed for right reasons. Not because you did not get on the team that you wanted to be on, or you were not picked as the manager, or you did not like the manager, or you did not get the pitch you wanted to train on etc etc etc. Beware a soccer mentality

seasiderblues (Meath) - Posts: 344 - 08/03/2024 07:34:38    2530256

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There seems a bit of a double standard for who should be allowed field a 2nd team.

On one hand the premier rules where clubs only need to name 9 players are praised for letting clubs field 2 teams using only about 25 players. We're told this is great and gets more football for more players.

But when a club enters a 2nd team in the league and find it impossible to field 2 teams simulataneously (on top of the high chance they have county players already missing off their first team) the response becomes "tough, you shouldn't have entered a 2nd team then".

Where's all the sympathy and accomodation gone? What happened to the concern about getting more football for more players?

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1653 - 08/03/2024 09:15:57    2530264

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Replying To browncows:  "You continue to make your point with quotes. Bigger may be better when you are on one of their best teams, but that does little for the guy left on the sideline with no matches. You quote a club who continually import players just like what they do in the premiership. The GAA is a community sport with parishes in every county having one or two clubs. Again the club you quote has a pick /population greater than the total population of Leitrim, Fermanagh and Longford having only recently imported a player from Galway to win an AI, doing so with 16 players in the field of play - I think they should have only 15! -not a good example to use to further you claim."
I actually fail to see your point to be honest. The lad on the side line may go to the B team or try harder. It's spirt, competitive sport not a social club.

I haven't used one quote in any of my arguments.

Just to help you, this is an example of a quote:

"Arguing with ignorance is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good you are, the bird is going to knock the pieces over, crap on the board, and strut around like it's victorious." - Scott D. Weitzenhoffer

Maybe read up on participation levels within all sports.
Look at ESRI data going back to 2013 showing a minimum drop of 50% between ages of 18-22 in GAA alone, male and female

Look at clubs struggling to field in this county!

Look at the worldwide trend of urbanisation where populations are moving to larger towns and cities. Draining countryside of population. Then the issue of over subscribed clubs in Dublin struggling to have enough space due to poor planning, creating mega clubs, who create super players. There are problems both ends. However Meaths problems lie at the bottom end with many many clubs. Stop fooling ourselves, we are in bother.

Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 08/03/2024 12:23:51    2530307

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Replying To seasiderblues:  "Good debate. Throwing in my tuppence worth. Clubs need to be formed for right reasons. Not because you did not get on the team that you wanted to be on, or you were not picked as the manager, or you did not like the manager, or you did not get the pitch you wanted to train on etc etc etc. Beware a soccer mentality"
Couldn't agree more. Prime example in Meath. Big celebration over a new club. Absolutely ridiculous. CB was sold a pup.

Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 08/03/2024 12:25:22    2530308

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Replying To Meathooooo:  "Couldn't agree more. Prime example in Meath. Big celebration over a new club. Absolutely ridiculous. CB was sold a pup."
They have more players than some rural clubs playing at the minute so id be waiting a while before I'd criticise . It appears that you are a little angry over this decision which would mean that you are from the area. just my opinion....

199710 (Meath) - Posts: 120 - 08/03/2024 13:31:51    2530313

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Replying To 199710:  "They have more players than some rural clubs playing at the minute so id be waiting a while before I'd criticise . It appears that you are a little angry over this decision which would mean that you are from the area. just my opinion...."
Not from area. Not here to insult teams. But I strongly believe that EG was formed for all the wrong reasons.

No shortage of teams in area outside of St Colmcilles.

Just further weakens Meaths hand and club competitions.

Any one playing for them.were playing before.
No underage structure so they'll have to attract players from other local clubs, weakening them.

Strategic own goal by Meath CB.

Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 08/03/2024 13:48:37    2530316

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Replying To Meathooooo:  "Not from area. Not here to insult teams. But I strongly believe that EG was formed for all the wrong reasons.

No shortage of teams in area outside of St Colmcilles.

Just further weakens Meaths hand and club competitions.

Any one playing for them.were playing before.
No underage structure so they'll have to attract players from other local clubs, weakening them.

Strategic own goal by Meath CB."
I'm sorry but how can this weaken Meath's hand? or club football in Meath. No one from outside of the area will be allowed transfer in unless its an intercounty, Parish Rule will come into play. There was an agreement on a new boundary a number of years back to allow Cilles develop and now when the shoe is on the other foot there is an issue. By its formation you are getting more people playing the game, take Simonstown as an example and look what they went onto do in the game. There formation came in similar circumstances.

199710 (Meath) - Posts: 120 - 08/03/2024 14:29:35    2530321

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Replying To Meathooooo:  "I actually fail to see your point to be honest. The lad on the side line may go to the B team or try harder. It's spirt, competitive sport not a social club.

I haven't used one quote in any of my arguments.

Just to help you, this is an example of a quote:

"Arguing with ignorance is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good you are, the bird is going to knock the pieces over, crap on the board, and strut around like it's victorious." - Scott D. Weitzenhoffer

Maybe read up on participation levels within all sports.
Look at ESRI data going back to 2013 showing a minimum drop of 50% between ages of 18-22 in GAA alone, male and female

Look at clubs struggling to field in this county!

Look at the worldwide trend of urbanisation where populations are moving to larger towns and cities. Draining countryside of population. Then the issue of over subscribed clubs in Dublin struggling to have enough space due to poor planning, creating mega clubs, who create super players. There are problems both ends. However Meaths problems lie at the bottom end with many many clubs. Stop fooling ourselves, we are in bother."
You make some interesting points -

I think the population shift is a significant challenge for the GAA, GAA Clubs and players! It has already impacted - Dublin have an advantage purely in the size of their population while other counties are losing players as they need to move for work etc. This impact is felt further as generations develop.

I think some of the bigger clubs are doing a great job accommodating the numbers that they have! Kilmacud were mentioned earlier - I work with a lad who is involved on the hurling side in Crokes! He is from waterford but has lived in Dublin for 20 years - He coaches in Crokes and has played on their 'E' championship team while in his 40's!! They have a huge membership of adults and juveniles and battle to fit them all in - they have decent facilities but not nearly enough to deal with their membership

On the other side, his own club in Waterford struggle to field teams in both Hurling and football at every level!


In Meath - there seems to be a resentment towards the village teams with the bigger populations - but these clubs are developing Meath players of the future! hardly the fault of those clubs that some of the rural clubs are struggling when their populations are shrinking and the demographics are changing!

We are already seeing amalgamations at juvenile level and let's be honest the regional competition also is am amalgamation to enable lads play at higher levels! This will become the norm in time I believe! I drive through Dunboyne, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath and Ashbourne in particular and I'm amazed by the new developments being built! These should all bring new members to the local GAA teams - particularly if managed right! Even Kilbride has new developments going on - it won't be long before we see them benefit from that! Some of these clubs have already developed good facilities and I know some of them have further plans to develop - they need to start planning or run the risk of not being able to accommodate in the future!

Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 484 - 08/03/2024 14:36:42    2530323

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Replying To Royalblufill:  "You make some interesting points -

I think the population shift is a significant challenge for the GAA, GAA Clubs and players! It has already impacted - Dublin have an advantage purely in the size of their population while other counties are losing players as they need to move for work etc. This impact is felt further as generations develop.

I think some of the bigger clubs are doing a great job accommodating the numbers that they have! Kilmacud were mentioned earlier - I work with a lad who is involved on the hurling side in Crokes! He is from waterford but has lived in Dublin for 20 years - He coaches in Crokes and has played on their 'E' championship team while in his 40's!! They have a huge membership of adults and juveniles and battle to fit them all in - they have decent facilities but not nearly enough to deal with their membership

On the other side, his own club in Waterford struggle to field teams in both Hurling and football at every level!


In Meath - there seems to be a resentment towards the village teams with the bigger populations - but these clubs are developing Meath players of the future! hardly the fault of those clubs that some of the rural clubs are struggling when their populations are shrinking and the demographics are changing!

We are already seeing amalgamations at juvenile level and let's be honest the regional competition also is am amalgamation to enable lads play at higher levels! This will become the norm in time I believe! I drive through Dunboyne, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath and Ashbourne in particular and I'm amazed by the new developments being built! These should all bring new members to the local GAA teams - particularly if managed right! Even Kilbride has new developments going on - it won't be long before we see them benefit from that! Some of these clubs have already developed good facilities and I know some of them have further plans to develop - they need to start planning or run the risk of not being able to accommodate in the future!"
You're pretty spot on. Likes of Kilbrides and St Mary's will benefit from population growth and urban spread. Both with very good facilities. Probably need additional pitches going forward. Good problems!

Meathooooo (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 08/03/2024 15:09:47    2530332

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Replying To Meathooooo:  "Not from area. Not here to insult teams. But I strongly believe that EG was formed for all the wrong reasons.

No shortage of teams in area outside of St Colmcilles.

Just further weakens Meaths hand and club competitions.

Any one playing for them.were playing before.
No underage structure so they'll have to attract players from other local clubs, weakening them.

Strategic own goal by Meath CB."
Not sure where you're getting your information from but I am living in the area and I know for a fact that a number of players that played for them last year had never played gaa before.

Not sure of there underage structure but again I know for a fact they've an academy and they also give their time coaching in the schools.. So I presume that's where they're starting an underage structure.

Best of luck to them.

royaljackeen (Meath) - Posts: 37 - 08/03/2024 19:08:51    2530365

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A lot of people get easily caught up and somehow try to diminish community clubs with the argument that success of elite intercounty teams is paramount.
Clubs are so much more to a community than 20 lads pulling on a jersey. Some amalgamations work, some do not with cliques and divides still dominating.
We have a new club in Meath and should be proud of that. Imagine if people had dismissed Simonstown Gaels 50 years ago as being not needed.
The reality is that no two clubs are the same. The commuter clubs close to the Dublin border have massive numbers and try to model themselves on clubs in the capital. Clubs in other parts of the county have lesser numbers but are the heartbeat of their community. Telling them to amalgamate so that the Meath footballers can be better is most un GAA-like.

Roger (Meath) - Posts: 473 - 09/03/2024 07:54:51    2530400

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