Meath Forum

Meath V Derry Rd 7.

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Replying To ratlag:  "Jesus wept, what absolute rubbish!! If hes the best free taker in the team, then hes the best free taker in the team, his position doesn't make any difference to that whatsoever. If he wasn't comfortable coming up to take the frees I'm sure he would say this to Andy and the duty would be passed on. Lads on here giving out the last 4-5 years about us not having a consistent free taker and now that we do, he's playing the wrong position to be taking them!! Plus the fact, he is only taking frees from roughly 30-35 meters out, anything inside is been taken by both Walsh and Morris.
There is absolutely zero problems with Hogan taking frees, and if he keeps up his current strike rate, then long may it continue"
I don't think the OP was having a go off Harry, just raising a small concern and point to discuss. I don't think or at least i didn't take it that they were giving out, more talk in general terms. Are we not allowed have an opinion any more?

Yes Hogan has been decent on free's, nothing to write home about, but better than most of our free takers in recent years, but i think it's fair to ask what happens in a situation where Harry might come under pressure if he misses a few and the impact it might have on him as the poster said given its his first full season, that it's a lot to put on him. But looked maybe he's thriving on the pressure and good luck to him if he is.

I think it's strange that some times Harry is called up and at others Morris/ Walsh/ O'Reilly will have a go. I'd personally prefer one free taker only and look if that's Harry, so be it.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 31/03/2022 09:39:51    2408538

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Replying To brian:  "I don't think the OP was having a go off Harry, just raising a small concern and point to discuss. I don't think or at least i didn't take it that they were giving out, more talk in general terms. Are we not allowed have an opinion any more?

Yes Hogan has been decent on free's, nothing to write home about, but better than most of our free takers in recent years, but i think it's fair to ask what happens in a situation where Harry might come under pressure if he misses a few and the impact it might have on him as the poster said given its his first full season, that it's a lot to put on him. But looked maybe he's thriving on the pressure and good luck to him if he is.

I think it's strange that some times Harry is called up and at others Morris/ Walsh/ O'Reilly will have a go. I'd personally prefer one free taker only and look if that's Harry, so be it."
This is my biggest frustration, that one week Harry kicks 5 frees and looks good and the next the forwards inside are kicking wides. May not be ideal but Harry has to take them end of.

Thejoeshow (Meath) - Posts: 687 - 31/03/2022 10:01:36    2408553

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Replying To brian:  "I don't think the OP was having a go off Harry, just raising a small concern and point to discuss. I don't think or at least i didn't take it that they were giving out, more talk in general terms. Are we not allowed have an opinion any more?

Yes Hogan has been decent on free's, nothing to write home about, but better than most of our free takers in recent years, but i think it's fair to ask what happens in a situation where Harry might come under pressure if he misses a few and the impact it might have on him as the poster said given its his first full season, that it's a lot to put on him. But looked maybe he's thriving on the pressure and good luck to him if he is.

I think it's strange that some times Harry is called up and at others Morris/ Walsh/ O'Reilly will have a go. I'd personally prefer one free taker only and look if that's Harry, so be it."
Neither do I, and I wasn't trying to belittle the opinion, more asking what exactly are people looking for?? To me it is fairly obvious, anything from outside say 30m, a tight angle or into the wind and Hogan takes them as he is the most accurate. On a calm day, or with the wind inside 30-35m then it is given to Walsh or Morris, with O Reilly or O Sullivan only taking them if the first two aren't on the pitch.

As far as pressure goes, I don't buy that. Plenty of you lads kicking frees for their county in the early years of togging out, O Shea with Kerry, O Donoghue with Mayo, again it goes back to 'If you're good enough, you're old enough'. Take hurling as an example, the likes of Nash and Davy Fitz taking penos as they were the best on the team at them, it doesn't mean other lads cant/couldn't have taken them but the keepers were the best and so they took the responsibility.

I think theres a number of other things that we aren't doing well (but are trying to improve and work on) we can look at and query without nit picking at something that is clearly after being improved upon and working

ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 556 - 31/03/2022 11:08:03    2408582

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Replying To Thejoeshow:  "This is my biggest frustration, that one week Harry kicks 5 frees and looks good and the next the forwards inside are kicking wides. May not be ideal but Harry has to take them end of."
That's fair Joe

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 31/03/2022 11:12:29    2408583

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Replying To ratlag:  "Neither do I, and I wasn't trying to belittle the opinion, more asking what exactly are people looking for?? To me it is fairly obvious, anything from outside say 30m, a tight angle or into the wind and Hogan takes them as he is the most accurate. On a calm day, or with the wind inside 30-35m then it is given to Walsh or Morris, with O Reilly or O Sullivan only taking them if the first two aren't on the pitch.

As far as pressure goes, I don't buy that. Plenty of you lads kicking frees for their county in the early years of togging out, O Shea with Kerry, O Donoghue with Mayo, again it goes back to 'If you're good enough, you're old enough'. Take hurling as an example, the likes of Nash and Davy Fitz taking penos as they were the best on the team at them, it doesn't mean other lads cant/couldn't have taken them but the keepers were the best and so they took the responsibility.

I think theres a number of other things that we aren't doing well (but are trying to improve and work on) we can look at and query without nit picking at something that is clearly after being improved upon and working"
I take your point, Hogan has proved to be a decent free taker (no idea what his stats are) something we have needed for quite a while, as you said many young players take frees for their county, but these are by and large forwards. Nash and Fitzy were tasked with penalty shots, so asked to step forward 2/3 times a season and not 5/6 times per game. Our kickouts still need a lot of work and see no issue with Hogan taking frees from distance, do we really need him for the close in frees, are our forwards that lacking in basic skills? As said I take your point and suppose we need to use every advantage we have. Maybe he thrives on pressure, my concern is loss of form in one area of his game will affect the other.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2131 - 31/03/2022 14:21:38    2408670

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Replying To seadog54:  "I take your point, Hogan has proved to be a decent free taker (no idea what his stats are) something we have needed for quite a while, as you said many young players take frees for their county, but these are by and large forwards. Nash and Fitzy were tasked with penalty shots, so asked to step forward 2/3 times a season and not 5/6 times per game. Our kickouts still need a lot of work and see no issue with Hogan taking frees from distance, do we really need him for the close in frees, are our forwards that lacking in basic skills? As said I take your point and suppose we need to use every advantage we have. Maybe he thrives on pressure, my concern is loss of form in one area of his game will affect the other."
AS we've seen in the last while, we don't have forwards who are consistent enough. I've said before, Walsh, Morris, McMahon, O Sullivan all take frees for their respective clubs and have come up short at Inter County level. Hogan seems to be hitting (and I stand to be corrected) about 70% which is the best we have had since Ward/Newman and he has so much time and scope to improve I see no point in removing him. His kick outs are pretty decent, I'd more look at the movement out the field as more of an issue. I don't remember many if any going out over the side line (possibly 1 against Derry) and between the Derry and Cork game he hit a few short ones into tight areas that give me confidence going forward.
You're concern about loss of form in one area affecting the other areas can be said of any player in any position. If a forward misses and easy free, is he more or less likely to be conscious about his next shot, either trying to force it or not taking it at all. This is a mentality thing and why you need players with a strong mentality on the frees which as I've said, if Hogan was happy enough to consistently put his hand up to take them then he clearly has the mental toughness to get over missing one

ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 556 - 31/03/2022 14:46:18    2408683

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Replying To ratlag:  "AS we've seen in the last while, we don't have forwards who are consistent enough. I've said before, Walsh, Morris, McMahon, O Sullivan all take frees for their respective clubs and have come up short at Inter County level. Hogan seems to be hitting (and I stand to be corrected) about 70% which is the best we have had since Ward/Newman and he has so much time and scope to improve I see no point in removing him. His kick outs are pretty decent, I'd more look at the movement out the field as more of an issue. I don't remember many if any going out over the side line (possibly 1 against Derry) and between the Derry and Cork game he hit a few short ones into tight areas that give me confidence going forward.
You're concern about loss of form in one area affecting the other areas can be said of any player in any position. If a forward misses and easy free, is he more or less likely to be conscious about his next shot, either trying to force it or not taking it at all. This is a mentality thing and why you need players with a strong mentality on the frees which as I've said, if Hogan was happy enough to consistently put his hand up to take them then he clearly has the mental toughness to get over missing one"
It was me that suggested that too much was being asked of young Hogan. AT the moment of course he is our best option but something just doesn't sit well with me that our main free taker is also our goalie. Of course he needs to take them if he is our most accurate, and consistent.

One of my points was however that he has a particularly important role in the team that needs a lot of development. A kickout strategy to be developed and ongoing development of his shotstopping skills. He would also need to be practicing his free kick taking. Before games you often see a goalie practicing his kickouts to get a handle on the wind, also practicing his shotstopping with one of the forwards. You also would see the free taker practicing the frees and getting a feel for the conditions. I just hope that we are not putting all of our eggs in one basket.

Anyway, I appreciate that it may not be a popular thought and I think he is our first option but Andy does need to be developing others as contingency (which of course he should be doing anyway)

stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 223 - 31/03/2022 16:19:31    2408720

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Mickey Newman still a young man could be approached to return.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 518 - 31/03/2022 21:42:23    2408773

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Replying To Ashrules:  "Mickey Newman still a young man could be approached to return."
Mickey Newman won't be going back for multiple reasons

1) He shouldn't be playing football, his hips are banjaxed
2) He was brought back last year and told he'd have a role
3) Was lied to be management and left sitting twiddling his thumbs v Dublin when he could've impacted the game
4) Wasn't even given a cursory gesture of a minute or two when the Dublin game was done and dusted

The lad has been carrying injuries since he was a minor and was barely able to walk at times

Great article here by Gordon Manning on his retirement. Mickey deserved a lot more

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/gaa-football/8285817/mickey-newman-meath-injuries-gaa-career/

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1954 - 01/04/2022 10:30:16    2408794

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Replying To ratlag:  "I don't agree with he was lied to, he may well have been told he would have a role coming back in (depending on his performances in training etc) but personally I think Mickey hasn't been good enough for county football for the last 3 years or so. Injuries destroyed what started out looking like a very promising career, but when he got back after the surgeries his pace and sharpness was nowhere near where it needed to be. I'm a big fan of his and as I said, only for serious injuries I think he would have been up there with some of our best, but the fact is that for the last few seasons he just hasn't been at the pace required (now I know the lads in there at the minute aren't setting the world alight) but I don't think he would have changed many results at all.
As for the Dublin game last year, we were on top in the second half and were clawing them back as the half went on, the subs made all had an impact and contributed so I don't think bringing Newman on would have made any difference tbh.
I've no doubt that McEntee asked him back in hoping he could rekindle the form of old and be a real asset but he's looking at him every day in training and comparing him to everyone else that's there and he made his call (one that I personally agree with but clearly others like yourself don't), that's what the manager is there to do, and as you've rightly said, Mickey won't be going back in there as he knows himself, even with a new manager that he isn't capable of it any more."
He did not stop having talent. Even if a little less pacier than before he could be used. Placed beside our faster lads and we have the fastest in Ireland, etc. The team have certainly made places for lads lacking pace who would not have near Mickey Newman's skill. Would differ with you on 'not good enough for county football'

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 518 - 01/04/2022 16:50:03    2408946

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