Meath Forum

Meath V Dublin

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Replying To seadog54:  "First of all I would like to say it is great to read so many good posts with many different points of view on Meath football. I have more or less given up posting on main forum, its more like badger baiting than analysis or opinion.
Its no secret that I think current managements time is up. As for them taking Meath into modern era, I disagree, we are always at least two seasons behind the top teams, always playing catch up, I still have no idea what way we are trying to play and it was evident from Kildare and Dublin games team are struggling with whatever game plan is in place. Our fitness has improved, but physicality has to be addressed. I fell getting promoted from Div 2 has papered over too many defects. Well before start of that campaign Andy made it clear promotion was his main goal for season (and rightly so). An all out effort was made to improve the fitness and we entered competition well ahead of rest of division in that respect. Of the teams mentioned many were missing 6/7 of players who would start championship for them months later. In fairness we took full advantage of their misfortune and our fitness to gain promotion, using majority of team that would start championship for us. As a strategy to gain promotion it worked, however by time championship started our lads were played out. I can see no evidence that coach is having even a basic positive influence on this group, lads who came in over last two years are not progressing and more estabilished group have gone backwards. Management have been living off promotion for too long. You say priority is to keep Andy, I think opposite is essential. For me there is a dogmatic approach by management, trying to mould players to a system that does not suit them. Cavan showed its not rocket science, set up defence and forwards, a decent keeper and a team that were willing to give everything for the jersey. I fear unless change is made current and new talent will not receive the level of coaching and encouragement required and new players will be less willing to join panel
The warnings were there in Kildare game but management choose to ignore and put out same side against Dublin, there have been a litany of mistakes over the years and the hiding against Dublin (again) for me was the last straw."
good 10 minute discussion on the whole issue on Sky last night with Jim McGuinness

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 384 - 26/11/2020 11:49:21    2315568

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Replying To Crinigan:  "" he made a good point - who wants to watch an All Ireland or Leinster final between North Dublin and South Dublin - bar maybe people from North Dublin and South Dublin! "

With all due respect, I don't think this is a good point at all. Why wouldn't people want to watch south v north Dublin in a Leinster final? It's a competitive game between two counties afterall. Sure thousands tune in to the Dublin county finals on tg4. All people want is to see competitive football. What's the alternative? Watch Dublin hockey Meath or Laois every year? Dublin is a province, divide it into 4 counties and we'll get used to it fairly quickly."
I understand your frustration and I know all you want is to see meath back competing at the top table just like me but for me splitting Dublin in two, four or whatever would only dilute the leinster championship.It wouldn't mean as much to me to beat south Dublin in a final as it would just Dublin.I know we cant just go on with what's happening the Gaa need to spread the money more equally but the question I would be asking what is Dublin secret with the money they spend.I know people will comeback and say they have so many coaches etc but say we did get more money what will our county board spend it on?Putting up taking down floodlights in navan, doing up navan or more coaches for clubs or put more money into senior team or whatever.It needs to be a proper plan whatever they do but there will be no short term fix, you have to think longer term.For me I'd pump money into coaches for schools and clubs regarding skills and strength and conditioning when they are ready.Id loved to see more coaches from meath,meathmen/women with a genuine interest in meath gaa and the future of the kids and county.Before people start saying why only from meath I know there are coaches doing great work from other counties in meath and I'm not knocking them at all but it should be not just a job but a passion so if your coaching in your own county In my opinion it would mean more.I know navan needs to be done up but what's the point in having a top class stadium if the interest is not there, we need kids to want to play gaa not soccer, rugby etc and by investing in them you will get reward in the future.Back to now yes Dublin are very good etc but both mayo and Kerry have pushed them hard over the last few years a couple of one point wins means they aren't unbeatable.I know we aren't at mayo or Kerry's level just yet but we are not far off we have some good young players coming through we just need to coach them and make them believe they can win whether that's under current management (that's not for me to say)or someone else.I know just believing is not going to win a game but it affects your attitude, when things go against you,you dont feel sorry or give up, you keep trying just like all good teams do.I grew up with Meath teams that would never give up, they won, lost and drew but never gave up and for me if this Meath team can just get that attitude installed in them it would bring them closer to the top teams and I know we need more than just that but it would be a great start.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 254 - 26/11/2020 13:24:44    2315606

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "I understand your frustration and I know all you want is to see meath back competing at the top table just like me but for me splitting Dublin in two, four or whatever would only dilute the leinster championship.It wouldn't mean as much to me to beat south Dublin in a final as it would just Dublin.I know we cant just go on with what's happening the Gaa need to spread the money more equally but the question I would be asking what is Dublin secret with the money they spend.I know people will comeback and say they have so many coaches etc but say we did get more money what will our county board spend it on?Putting up taking down floodlights in navan, doing up navan or more coaches for clubs or put more money into senior team or whatever.It needs to be a proper plan whatever they do but there will be no short term fix, you have to think longer term.For me I'd pump money into coaches for schools and clubs regarding skills and strength and conditioning when they are ready.Id loved to see more coaches from meath,meathmen/women with a genuine interest in meath gaa and the future of the kids and county.Before people start saying why only from meath I know there are coaches doing great work from other counties in meath and I'm not knocking them at all but it should be not just a job but a passion so if your coaching in your own county In my opinion it would mean more.I know navan needs to be done up but what's the point in having a top class stadium if the interest is not there, we need kids to want to play gaa not soccer, rugby etc and by investing in them you will get reward in the future.Back to now yes Dublin are very good etc but both mayo and Kerry have pushed them hard over the last few years a couple of one point wins means they aren't unbeatable.I know we aren't at mayo or Kerry's level just yet but we are not far off we have some good young players coming through we just need to coach them and make them believe they can win whether that's under current management (that's not for me to say)or someone else.I know just believing is not going to win a game but it affects your attitude, when things go against you,you dont feel sorry or give up, you keep trying just like all good teams do.I grew up with Meath teams that would never give up, they won, lost and drew but never gave up and for me if this Meath team can just get that attitude installed in them it would bring them closer to the top teams and I know we need more than just that but it would be a great start."
Valid points on coaches.ny opinion on the outside ones is lot of them just here to boost thete cv.harsh you might say but in my view just mine i thknk thats what's goin on.in ulster and dublin you have verh good coaching workshops courses.in leinster out from dubs there poor relation.id say theres lots of passionate coaches out there but just dont get the breaks or acknowledgement from there county to get chance.
More access to learning and educating the men and women is needed in clubs and county.

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 488 - 26/11/2020 18:08:16    2315698

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "No, i would say getting promoted to div 1 with ease was the highlight of his tenure, something we hadn't done in 12 or 13 years. Lads must think we have a seriously good panel, and all that's holding us back is management...... well, we don't. We have 1 exceptional player, a handful of good solid players and a load of youthful potential......this mix doesn't just go up to div 1 and take it by storm against seasoned div 1 teams with experience and alot more talent. He has made loads of mistakes, some very frustrating, but unless your gonna get a heavy hitter like mcguinness from outside the county, getting rid of him would be a mistake......there is absolutely no alternative within the county.......none."
I don't think we got promoted to Div 1 with ease. We lost an early round to Donegal from a winning position, yes goalkeeping again. Beat a depleted Tipperary, Quinlan absent, and Armagh, I think Jamie Clarke wasn't playing and beat Kildare by a point or two. Remaining games were won easily enough by none by 9 or 10 points which would suggest ease. Right we came out on the right side of tight contests and got promoted. But what worried me most was that in the final against Donegal we took a significant lead early on BUT once Niall McGee replaced the starting full back, I think McCole was his name we made no further progress up front. And it has been the same ever since. Struggled against Clare in the final qualifier and struggling since. Forget about the big scores against Wicklow and Kildare, they were made up by goals which top and middle ranking teams don't concede. Now where do we go from here? The NFL may be around the corner, will we get promoted? Confident of beating Westmeath? Beaten as well by Dublin but not in Croker, may get 2 here, Kildare, if they learn anything about defending? Laois, have had more good days than bad ones against them but they were no worse against Dublin than we were. Clare, have had the measure of them in the league but the gap was closing, those are the middle rump of Div 2, I have an awful feeling that the hangover from the Leinster final could be still around and we could easily slip up against some of those teams. Then our demoted colleagues Mayo are in the mix, too early to see how their campaign will end, we should have beaten them in the recent game in Navan but frailty at the back cost us, man got isolated with the ball, goal!! Failure to support cost us that day and the last day, when will this ever end? Then we have the two promoted teams and two right bogey teams they are Cork, as inconsistent as ever, play the game of their lives against Kerry and lose to Tipperary, Down, the record will show that they lost by a point to the Ulster Champions but they did lead by ten, so are capable of hitting the front and there is one thing certain Down do learn from their mistakes. I doubt if we will beat all of those teams but there is some consolation, most of them will take points off each other so 'points on the road' will be important. So if the League resumes we face as competitive a Div 2 but failure to be re-promoted this year could be very damaging indeed. So have we improved? If we get promoted there is still no proof that we have. Now three times we have got promoted but on EACH occasion we have NOT won the final. How about this as a yardstick to measure improvement? If we don't win Division 2 we have not made progress and if management has not walked before then it must go or be seriously overhauled irrespective of whither the championship is around the corner or not.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1062 - 26/11/2020 18:08:20    2315699

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How come mayo can give the dubs a game every year yet we can't?

bert09 (Meath) - Posts: 1790 - 26/11/2020 18:41:12    2315712

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Replying To bert09:  "How come mayo can give the dubs a game every year yet we can't?"
Dublin beat Mayo by 10 points last year, give it time

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1454 - 26/11/2020 19:55:08    2315734

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Replying To bert09:  "How come mayo can give the dubs a game every year yet we can't?"
They have top of the class standards in sponsorship, the best fundraising efforts in Ireland, a rabid fanbase, very good and progressive structures through the age ranks, a very competetive Provincial Championship and a lively rivalry with Galway and the Rossies to push them on locally and a squad of regulars in Division One; 20-odd years I believe of being there. They also have had top managers in Horan and Rochford for the last 10 years. Although they've not won an All-Ireland, they have reached many finals and semi-finals and come agonisingly close several times over the last 20 years. They've won many provincial finals.

Now look at us and our situation.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 26/11/2020 19:56:04    2315735

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Replying To MillerX:  "I don't think we got promoted to Div 1 with ease. We lost an early round to Donegal from a winning position, yes goalkeeping again. Beat a depleted Tipperary, Quinlan absent, and Armagh, I think Jamie Clarke wasn't playing and beat Kildare by a point or two. Remaining games were won easily enough by none by 9 or 10 points which would suggest ease. Right we came out on the right side of tight contests and got promoted. But what worried me most was that in the final against Donegal we took a significant lead early on BUT once Niall McGee replaced the starting full back, I think McCole was his name we made no further progress up front. And it has been the same ever since. Struggled against Clare in the final qualifier and struggling since. Forget about the big scores against Wicklow and Kildare, they were made up by goals which top and middle ranking teams don't concede. Now where do we go from here? The NFL may be around the corner, will we get promoted? Confident of beating Westmeath? Beaten as well by Dublin but not in Croker, may get 2 here, Kildare, if they learn anything about defending? Laois, have had more good days than bad ones against them but they were no worse against Dublin than we were. Clare, have had the measure of them in the league but the gap was closing, those are the middle rump of Div 2, I have an awful feeling that the hangover from the Leinster final could be still around and we could easily slip up against some of those teams. Then our demoted colleagues Mayo are in the mix, too early to see how their campaign will end, we should have beaten them in the recent game in Navan but frailty at the back cost us, man got isolated with the ball, goal!! Failure to support cost us that day and the last day, when will this ever end? Then we have the two promoted teams and two right bogey teams they are Cork, as inconsistent as ever, play the game of their lives against Kerry and lose to Tipperary, Down, the record will show that they lost by a point to the Ulster Champions but they did lead by ten, so are capable of hitting the front and there is one thing certain Down do learn from their mistakes. I doubt if we will beat all of those teams but there is some consolation, most of them will take points off each other so 'points on the road' will be important. So if the League resumes we face as competitive a Div 2 but failure to be re-promoted this year could be very damaging indeed. So have we improved? If we get promoted there is still no proof that we have. Now three times we have got promoted but on EACH occasion we have NOT won the final. How about this as a yardstick to measure improvement? If we don't win Division 2 we have not made progress and if management has not walked before then it must go or be seriously overhauled irrespective of whither the championship is around the corner or not."
Another wasted year if no progress.has to be something fresh brought to the table.goalie freetakers Will do for start.but as on management selectors need replzcing.new ideas with mcentees plans.at least a diff voice on field and in managers office we call it.

Borderroyal (Meath) - Posts: 488 - 26/11/2020 20:00:22    2315737

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Replying To MillerX:  "I don't think we got promoted to Div 1 with ease. We lost an early round to Donegal from a winning position, yes goalkeeping again. Beat a depleted Tipperary, Quinlan absent, and Armagh, I think Jamie Clarke wasn't playing and beat Kildare by a point or two. Remaining games were won easily enough by none by 9 or 10 points which would suggest ease. Right we came out on the right side of tight contests and got promoted. But what worried me most was that in the final against Donegal we took a significant lead early on BUT once Niall McGee replaced the starting full back, I think McCole was his name we made no further progress up front. And it has been the same ever since. Struggled against Clare in the final qualifier and struggling since. Forget about the big scores against Wicklow and Kildare, they were made up by goals which top and middle ranking teams don't concede. Now where do we go from here? The NFL may be around the corner, will we get promoted? Confident of beating Westmeath? Beaten as well by Dublin but not in Croker, may get 2 here, Kildare, if they learn anything about defending? Laois, have had more good days than bad ones against them but they were no worse against Dublin than we were. Clare, have had the measure of them in the league but the gap was closing, those are the middle rump of Div 2, I have an awful feeling that the hangover from the Leinster final could be still around and we could easily slip up against some of those teams. Then our demoted colleagues Mayo are in the mix, too early to see how their campaign will end, we should have beaten them in the recent game in Navan but frailty at the back cost us, man got isolated with the ball, goal!! Failure to support cost us that day and the last day, when will this ever end? Then we have the two promoted teams and two right bogey teams they are Cork, as inconsistent as ever, play the game of their lives against Kerry and lose to Tipperary, Down, the record will show that they lost by a point to the Ulster Champions but they did lead by ten, so are capable of hitting the front and there is one thing certain Down do learn from their mistakes. I doubt if we will beat all of those teams but there is some consolation, most of them will take points off each other so 'points on the road' will be important. So if the League resumes we face as competitive a Div 2 but failure to be re-promoted this year could be very damaging indeed. So have we improved? If we get promoted there is still no proof that we have. Now three times we have got promoted but on EACH occasion we have NOT won the final. How about this as a yardstick to measure improvement? If we don't win Division 2 we have not made progress and if management has not walked before then it must go or be seriously overhauled irrespective of whither the championship is around the corner or not."
Division 2 in 2021 will be a nightmare, as always. Very little between any of the teams and a lot will depend on the variables on the day. For the betterment of our squad and progress the aim for the season must be to eak out promotion. It is doable. However I wouldnt take promotion for granted, all of the teams will fancy promotion, and they can get there. Our experience in Division one should stand to us, particularly seeing as the new season will be kicking off so soon after the end of this one so thats a cause for optimism.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 26/11/2020 20:03:01    2315739

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Replying To Young_gael:  "Division 2 in 2021 will be a nightmare, as always. Very little between any of the teams and a lot will depend on the variables on the day. For the betterment of our squad and progress the aim for the season must be to eak out promotion. It is doable. However I wouldnt take promotion for granted, all of the teams will fancy promotion, and they can get there. Our experience in Division one should stand to us, particularly seeing as the new season will be kicking off so soon after the end of this one so thats a cause for optimism."
There's a lot of talk about a regional league. If that's the case you'd presume there is no promotion, begs the question what's the point of a league in that case

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1454 - 26/11/2020 20:30:32    2315747

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Replying To Young_gael:  "Division 2 in 2021 will be a nightmare, as always. Very little between any of the teams and a lot will depend on the variables on the day. For the betterment of our squad and progress the aim for the season must be to eak out promotion. It is doable. However I wouldnt take promotion for granted, all of the teams will fancy promotion, and they can get there. Our experience in Division one should stand to us, particularly seeing as the new season will be kicking off so soon after the end of this one so thats a cause for optimism."
Yes, we 'must eek out promotion, or is doable' is all very fine. But my point is that I want to set the bar higher, we lost League finals to Monaghan (Div 3) and Donegal (Div 2) both of those counties progressed and remained in Div 1. We got promoted to Div 2 but languished there for a number of years eventually being promoted to Div 1, as runners up and were demoted because of six straight losses and one draw. This indicates to me that WINNING the Division appears to be a better yardstick by which to measure a team's progress. That's the benchmark that we must now demand before we consider that progress has been made. If this is not achieved then we have either remained static or dropped back.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1062 - 27/11/2020 00:34:56    2315821

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looking at the proposed Structure of the League for 2021, Division 2 will be split (north/south) in to 2 smaller geographical groups Down, Mayo, Meath & Westmeath, / Laois, Kildare, Clare & Cork
The football league, beginning at the end of February, will see each division split into two on a regional basis with semi-finals and finals taking the competition into April. This will guarantee every county a minimum of four games and a maximum of five

so Meath would have to win 2 of their 3 games (Vs Down, Mayo, & Westmeath) to get into a Semi, and might then have to beat Cork to get Promoted back to Div 1,


https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaas-revamped-2021-season-to-get-green-light-39797427.html

ABD09 (Meath) - Posts: 68 - 27/11/2020 10:58:27    2315875

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Replying To MillerX:  "Yes, we 'must eek out promotion, or is doable' is all very fine. But my point is that I want to set the bar higher, we lost League finals to Monaghan (Div 3) and Donegal (Div 2) both of those counties progressed and remained in Div 1. We got promoted to Div 2 but languished there for a number of years eventually being promoted to Div 1, as runners up and were demoted because of six straight losses and one draw. This indicates to me that WINNING the Division appears to be a better yardstick by which to measure a team's progress. That's the benchmark that we must now demand before we consider that progress has been made. If this is not achieved then we have either remained static or dropped back."
Im with you 100%, I just think our language is different. What you're saying makes perfect logical sense, winning is winning and we should always strive to win the division and push on and then win the next year etc too, but my from perspective, there's absolutely nothing tangible that tells me that this team will do that or has the likelihood of doing that. Our only advantage is experience in Div 1. Its not me having a go at the team at all, im just weighing off the facts. If you're playing Mayo, Cork, Laois, Westmeath, Kildare, Down and Clare and youre a Meath team that has won 2 games in the last 12 (one of which was a Div.4 regular), then it just makes more sense to set the bar a bit lower than what youre saying whilst still ultimately eyeing up promotion. There's no harm in being a bit leniant. Now isn't the time to drive the boot in. I'd even go as far as saying that a decent run in Division 2 and finishing 3/4th would be every bit as beneficial right now to our players. It's just where we're at to my reckoning. Its not where we want to be. But I do understand where you're coming from 100% and many will agree with your argument.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 27/11/2020 11:15:04    2315882

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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99:  "There's a lot of talk about a regional league. If that's the case you'd presume there is no promotion, begs the question what's the point of a league in that case"
If new set-up goes ahead there will be both promotion and relegation.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2136 - 28/11/2020 16:27:37    2316192

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Replying To seadog54:  "If new set-up goes ahead there will be both promotion and relegation."
Seen that, I thought the regional league was independent of the divisions. Thankfully it isn't

LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1454 - 28/11/2020 18:54:11    2316234

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great article 9as usual) by eamon Donoghue in irish times today , if you can get a chance to have a read of it, and then compare it with our 3 insides lads stats for not just the Dublin game but the Kildare , & even Wicklow game
proves again that andy got caught up in the optimism of goals being the way to win games

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 384 - 03/12/2020 14:20:56    2317948

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