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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Ah now, Barney. Your claim was: "a third of prison population is non national".

So, here's "hard evidence" from the Irish Prison Service, who should know best about this sort of thing. It's the most recent of the monthly publications they produce with figures for this sort of thing, covering February of this year:
https://www.irishprisons.ie/wp-content/uploads/documents_pdf/FEBRUARY-2026.pdf

Page 2 shows average daily prison population was 5,785.
Page 4 shows that 1,078 of them were non-nationals.
Simple maths shows that's 18.6%, not 33%.

Only mention of 33% I can find comes from gript.ie, which is not exactly renowned for accuracy, where the writer includes a significant estimate (rounding up from just under 25% to 33%), and where he refers to a figure for number of people committed to prison, which is a different thing from actual prison population."
The source you refer to links to official reports. If they were wrong they would have been challenged probably to Press Council.

Non national is only around 75 - 80% of those born overseas. An African born Irish passport holder was still.born in Africa..

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4223 - 20/04/2026 17:30:45    2667557

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Of the non nationals how many are Ukrainian? I would assume that caused a big sudden jump in figures? People on here claiming 1 in 3 people here are immigrants? Have a lie down lads.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8815 - 20/04/2026 18:18:37    2667570

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Of the non nationals how many are Ukrainian? I would assume that caused a big sudden jump in figures? People on here claiming 1 in 3 people here are immigrants? Have a lie down lads."
There are a lot of different stats being floated from all sides, I'm not 100% on the actual correct stats (Maybe someone can share the correct stats). but regardless, anything over 5% influx of immigrants within a 20 year period could pose serious issues down the road and by the sounds of it, we are well past that threshold.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1776 - 20/04/2026 20:58:55    2667602

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The source you refer to links to official reports. If they were wrong they would have been challenged probably to Press Council.

Non national is only around 75 - 80% of those born overseas. An African born Irish passport holder was still.born in Africa.."
I know loads of people born to Irish parents who are living here most of their lives but were born in England in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Dozens. In a small rural village with a population of only 400. And thats just the lads here who I know well enough to know where they were born. There are likely many more.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19280 - 20/04/2026 21:17:26    2667606

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Of the non nationals how many are Ukrainian? I would assume that caused a big sudden jump in figures? People on here claiming 1 in 3 people here are immigrants? Have a lie down lads."
Around 10% of overseas born are Ukrainians now.

No one said one in three. In 2022 Census overseas born was 20%. Official estimates range from 23% up. Probably 25%.

These are all CSO figures. Not some fantasy or 'far right' misinformation.

If you think that's fine then grand. You are entitled to your opinion.

Don't deny the facts.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4223 - 20/04/2026 21:34:22    2667610

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Replying To Saynothing:  "18% of people in prison are non nationals, take into account that 23% of the population are non nationals and it doesn't make good reading for Ireland in years to come."
So, if your figures are correct (and I'm not disputing them). . .

23% of the overall population are non-national.

18% of prison population are non-national.

This would suggest that non-nationals are more law-abiding than the 'native' Irish. (Otherwise the non-national share of the prison population would be 23%+).

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5320 - 20/04/2026 22:01:28    2667613

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Another one for Barney :)

Eurostat data for 2025 says that 23.3% of the population here were non-nationals.
That Prison Service report for 2024 says that 24.7% of all committals to prison involved non-nationals.
Those two percentage figures are broadly in line.

Now, according to the CSO, population of Dublin in 2025 was 1.568 million, and population of Ireland was 5.46 million.
Dublin therefore made up 28% of the population.
That same Prison Service report says that 34.1% of those committed to prison were from Dublin.
There's a significant difference between those two percentage figures.

Statistical conclusion: Dubs are far more likely to be committed to prison than non-nationals. :D

And by the way, that 34.1% is before considering the 11.6% of committals who declared themselves as being of no fixed abode.

So, in the manner of the Gript writer who you seem to have so much faith in....a "good" estimate of the actual number from Dublin would be around 38 to 40%.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3508 - 20/04/2026 23:22:45    2667630

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Replying To Viking66:  "I know loads of people born to Irish parents who are living here most of their lives but were born in England in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Dozens. In a small rural village with a population of only 400. And thats just the lads here who I know well enough to know where they were born. There are likely many more."
UK born is a surprisingly small %. Look up the Census 2022 tables yourself. You can find almost what people have for their dinner.

People born to Irish parents in UK are obviously Irish by the way. Just as people born here to non Irish parents are culturally and in other ways not Irish.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4223 - 21/04/2026 08:21:22    2667639

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Replying To cavanman47:  "So, if your figures are correct (and I'm not disputing them). . .

23% of the overall population are non-national.

18% of prison population are non-national.

This would suggest that non-nationals are more law-abiding than the 'native' Irish. (Otherwise the non-national share of the prison population would be 23%+)."
The % of prisoners born overseas was closer to one third. So opposite point applies.

You do not appear to grasp the difference between 'non national' and born overseas. There are several hundred thousand people with Irish passports who are Irish 'nationals' but born overseas.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4223 - 21/04/2026 09:24:18    2667652

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David McWilliams wrote a good piece in the Times recently.
The gist of it was that Ireland is a wealthy country, and we don't lack ambition when it comes to big infrastructure projects. But what we do lack is a very profound level of competence when it comes to public sector money and how it is spent.

"In the real world, Excel spreadhseets are deployed and hard budgets are normal"

If there was a lot more accountability and scrutiny over how public money was spent, maybe we'd get the required housing built.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 10302 - 21/04/2026 09:56:07    2667660

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "David McWilliams wrote a good piece in the Times recently.
The gist of it was that Ireland is a wealthy country, and we don't lack ambition when it comes to big infrastructure projects. But what we do lack is a very profound level of competence when it comes to public sector money and how it is spent.

"In the real world, Excel spreadhseets are deployed and hard budgets are normal"

If there was a lot more accountability and scrutiny over how public money was spent, maybe we'd get the required housing built."
100% correct, Billions of taxpayers money wasted every year, bloated admin levels, overpaid roles and all inefficiencies are guarded by Trade Unions.

We need more front line workers, we need to take better care of our frontline workers. Modern apps and even AI would reduce admin levels significantly, but change is far too slow.

Now the flip side of this, is that half the Country probably wouldn't get mortgages without at least one person having a public sector permanent role.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1776 - 21/04/2026 11:02:56    2667675

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "The % of prisoners born overseas was closer to one third. So opposite point applies.

You do not appear to grasp the difference between 'non national' and born overseas. There are several hundred thousand people with Irish passports who are Irish 'nationals' but born overseas."
I wrote a long-ish post last night pointing out flaws in how you're interpreting those statistics from the Irish Prison Service and also how you misunderstand the roles and powers of the Press Council and the Press Ombudsman, but for some reason it seems it's not being let through. I won't attempt to re-write it all in a different way.

But just to say here that as I've already shown, according to the latest monthly report from the Prison Service (February 2026), the actual portion of non-nationals was 18.6%

I understand how there's a difference between "non-national" and "born overseas". But if you're making the assumption that almost as many again of that 18.6% were born overseas but have since become an Irish national, on what grounds are you making that assumption? What figures, stats, or report do you have to back it up?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3508 - 21/04/2026 14:49:39    2667730

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A man with 179 previous convictions - Charged with stealing a caravan in Donegal at the weekend.

https://www.donegallive.ie/news/crime---court/2066451/donegal-man-with-179-previous-convictions-charged-over-caravan-theft.html

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1776 - 21/04/2026 16:09:15    2667741

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I wrote a long-ish post last night pointing out flaws in how you're interpreting those statistics from the Irish Prison Service and also how you misunderstand the roles and powers of the Press Council and the Press Ombudsman, but for some reason it seems it's not being let through. I won't attempt to re-write it all in a different way.

But just to say here that as I've already shown, according to the latest monthly report from the Prison Service (February 2026), the actual portion of non-nationals was 18.6%

I understand how there's a difference between "non-national" and "born overseas". But if you're making the assumption that almost as many again of that 18.6% were born overseas but have since become an Irish national, on what grounds are you making that assumption? What figures, stats, or report do you have to back it up?"
"That Prison Service report for 2024 says that 24.7% of all committals to prison involved non-nationals."

That is all committals, the 18% one is a daily snapshot. The 24.7% is more accurate and you can add to that those born overseas with citizenship. At very least a 4/5% difference.

The very fact that we are arguing about the massive % of non Irish people in anything tells its own tale!

As for us having our own n'er do wells, we can't help that. It is not an excuse for importing others who have no claim on us.

(BTW, having an address in Dublin is not the same as being from Dublin, same as living in Ireland is not the same as being Irish.)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4223 - 21/04/2026 16:19:24    2667742

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  ""That Prison Service report for 2024 says that 24.7% of all committals to prison involved non-nationals."

That is all committals, the 18% one is a daily snapshot. The 24.7% is more accurate and you can add to that those born overseas with citizenship. At very least a 4/5% difference.

The very fact that we are arguing about the massive % of non Irish people in anything tells its own tale!

As for us having our own n'er do wells, we can't help that. It is not an excuse for importing others who have no claim on us.

(BTW, having an address in Dublin is not the same as being from Dublin, same as living in Ireland is not the same as being Irish.)"
Let's take the first two lines of your post there, and then swing back to your original claim. :)

That original claim made by you was: ""a third of prison population is non national".

Now you seem to be accepting the 18% "daily snapshot" prison population figure instead. So at least you've come to accept you were wrong, even if you're not admitting it.

Anyway, curious about something else, since you seem convinced that a significant number of foreign-born people who go on to become Irish nationals end up being committed to prison as well -

To become a citizen, you have to have lived here for a minimum of five years, and have a Garda report to say you were of good behaviour and character for all that time.

So, if these people have been perfectly law-abiding for at least five years, what do you think it is that makes them turn into criminals after they've been granted citizenship?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3508 - 21/04/2026 16:51:36    2667744

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "UK born is a surprisingly small %. Look up the Census 2022 tables yourself. You can find almost what people have for their dinner.

People born to Irish parents in UK are obviously Irish by the way. Just as people born here to non Irish parents are culturally and in other ways not Irish."
What was the percentage of UK born?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19280 - 21/04/2026 17:49:07    2667755

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To become a citizen, you have to have lived here for a minimum of five years, and have a Garda report to say you were of good behaviour and character for all that time.

So, if these people have been perfectly law-abiding for at least five years, what do you think it is that makes them turn into criminals after they've been granted citizenship?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3501 - 21/04/2026 16:51:36

So if a immigrant or refugee is convicted of a crime during their initial 5 year period here, they cannot become an Irish Citizen?

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1776 - 21/04/2026 22:20:38    2667793

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Replying To Commodore:  "To become a citizen, you have to have lived here for a minimum of five years, and have a Garda report to say you were of good behaviour and character for all that time.

So, if these people have been perfectly law-abiding for at least five years, what do you think it is that makes them turn into criminals after they've been granted citizenship?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3501 - 21/04/2026 16:51:36

So if a immigrant or refugee is convicted of a crime during their initial 5 year period here, they cannot become an Irish Citizen?"
All applications for citizenship require full disclosure and are vetted. Applications with a conviction are decided upon by the Minister for Justice on a case by case basis taking into account the nature of the offence, when it happened etc. Its not an automatic exclusion but it makes it very difficult.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 216 - 22/04/2026 09:41:01    2667835

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Yes, as Tadhg2020 says above - if the Garda report is "clean", then you should have no problem in becoming a citizen so long as you satisfy the other requirements too.

However, if it discloses one or more convictions of the type likely to lead to a committal to prison, then it becomes highly unlikely you'll be granted citizenship.

Barney seems to believe that many prisoners are people who originally come from other countries and who committed crime after first taking out citizenship here.

So my question remains: what does he think it is that makes these people who have been law-abiding for a minimum five years turn to crime and commit prison-worthy offences after they've been granted citizenship?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3508 - 22/04/2026 10:58:30    2667860

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All applications for citizenship require full disclosure and are vetted. Applications with a conviction are decided upon by the Minister for Justice on a case by case basis taking into account the nature of the offence, when it happened etc. Its not an automatic exclusion but it makes it very difficult.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 212 - 22/04/2026 09:41:01 2

Are all applications automatically rejected if vetting cannot be obtained? Or are there exceptions in those cases?

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1776 - 22/04/2026 13:00:19    2667882

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