National Forum

Gender Quotas to be applied to Sports Bodies

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Who mooted the argument and at what meeting stating that gender balance must be phased in over the next 2/3 years.?
I'm not aware of any other country where gender balance is compulsory in sport, feel free to correct me should I be wrong.
On the basis of 30% male, 30% female and 40% others, say 10 positions to be filled on that basis we would have 3 males 3 females and 4 others, can't see it happen.

Cuhullain (Kildare) - Posts: 302 - 13/12/2016 21:47:38    1939993

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "According to The Irish Times 13 of the 16 people on the board of The Camogie Association are women which means 81.25% of the board are female .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts:4478 - 13/12/2016 18:35:41 1939964

Just shows how far ahead of the GAA the Camogie Association is in terms of gender balance. 80/20 split whereas the GAA has 0% women at that level."
Nope. Shows the level of interest men have in all sports . Now all that is needed according to the quota pushers is another 10% and we will have "balance".

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6180 - 13/12/2016 23:14:31    1940009

Link

Replying To bad.monkey:  "Quotas are unfortunately necessary to un-do centuries of discrimination that women endured. It is about moving towards re-balance and with this push a natural balance will happen in future. Boards are supposed to be representative bodies , yet the GAA, FAI, IRFU..etc have zero representation at board level for the thousands of females involved in the organisations.

Im not sure if the posts and whataboutery about individual professions where there are more men or women is actually serious!"
Of course they're serious. The references to the teaching profession highlight a glaring example of a serious gender imbalance in a profession that is absolutely vital in terms of encouraging both boys and girls to participate in sport from an early age . Encouraging girls ( I note boys were not referred to) to participate in sport is precisely the pretext for the introduction of these ridiculous quotas. Reference to the teaching profession is entirely relevant . Yet those who are advocating quotas including you blithely ignore it because it doesn't concur with your world view .
As for redressing centuries of discrimination against women, the imposition of quotas on sporting organisations will only undermine the position of those women who will find themselves on the boards of directors because of their ability as opposed to their gender .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6180 - 13/12/2016 23:27:41    1940011

Link

Replying To JoeSoap:  "Well it is whataboutery because you're presenting a separate issue as if that is some validation for the current lack of female representation in the administration of our sports bodies. Gender imbalance in our schools is an issue that's been raised by INTO on numerous occasions, never mind the issues around pay and job security. We have a huge amount of qualified teachers in Ireland and more and more are leaving because the jobs aren't here. What that has to do with the topic at hand? Absolutely nothing. But I'm sure it feeds into your own little narrative surrounding sexism and inequality.

Inequality is one sided... that's kind of the whole point. I haven't seen enough research regarding barriers to men when it comes to primary teaching - is there evidence of being ignored for the job ahead of a female teacher? Even anecdotally, is it ever presented as "I didn't get the job because I'm a man"? I'm genuinely curious - I don't know enough about that. I also find it funny when people rail so hard against feminism when it is a good thing for men as well. If a man wants to be a nurse, should he be judged as somehow less masculine for that? Of course not. But that stigma is there, and it wasn't feminism that put it there.

In an ideal world, quotas wouldn't be necessary, people would be judged on their ability and their merits, how they fit in with an organisation and team and go from there. However, it is not an ideal world and the deck is stacked against women and minorities. I repeat: I do not like quotas as they are in essence undemocratic. But I refuse to believe that true democracy results in a single female representative on the boards of the GAA, IRFU and FAI. Something doesn't quite add up there, wouldn't you say?"
and forcing women even if completely unqualified is true democracy?..best person for the job in my view regardless of gender

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 13/12/2016 23:47:53    1940013

Link

Replying To JoeSoap:  "Classic whataboutery. I bet you say "not all men" a lot as well

Until such a time that men are under represented in these bodies it is farcical to dismiss this idea just because it's primarily aimed at women. As I have said, I don't really like quotas and I don't think it will work on it's own, but at least it's an acknowledgement of a problem and hopefully will be part of a wider strategy"
not all men?

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 13/12/2016 23:48:20    1940014

Link

Gender Quota - is that the same as the Milk Quota?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/12/2016 08:36:16    1940024

Link

Replying To Greengrass:  "Of course they're serious. The references to the teaching profession highlight a glaring example of a serious gender imbalance in a profession that is absolutely vital in terms of encouraging both boys and girls to participate in sport from an early age . Encouraging girls ( I note boys were not referred to) to participate in sport is precisely the pretext for the introduction of these ridiculous quotas. Reference to the teaching profession is entirely relevant . Yet those who are advocating quotas including you blithely ignore it because it doesn't concur with your world view .
As for redressing centuries of discrimination against women, the imposition of quotas on sporting organisations will only undermine the position of those women who will find themselves on the boards of directors because of their ability as opposed to their gender ."
Boards are representative bodies , they are suppose to represent their members interests. There are a thousands of female sports club members they should have at least some female representation at board level.
Individual professions like primary teaching are not really comparable to representative bodies - boards, politicians. are there any barriers to entry for male teachers? . Nope , just some professions attract more males or females.

Alano best person for the job is exactly what everyone wants but it is not happening because of historical gender inequality. These quotas are a push to re-balance things and then we will have a natural balance and level playing field in the future

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 14/12/2016 09:20:46    1940027

Link

Replying To alano12:  "and forcing women even if completely unqualified is true democracy?..best person for the job in my view regardless of gender"
Oh for god sake, are you assuming that quotas mean Mary down the local Post Office will be parachuted in to be a senior board member for Ulster GAA? That's not the case whatsoever. There are plenty of women involved in all levels of GAA who this will be benefit, who will be given the opportunity now to prove themselves. There's also no slavery going on here, it's not as if anyone will be forced into a position they don't want.

And AGAIN, I don't like quotas because they are NOT true democracy, but what we have isn't true democracy either yet you seem more than happy with the status quo? Something needs done and as long as this is part of a wider strategy to get more women involved at all levels then I am all for it. I just take issue with lads whingeing about PC gone mad/feminism because they feel like something is being taken away from them.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 14/12/2016 09:34:34    1940030

Link

Replying To tonydoranfan:  "Amalgamate hurling and camogie, gaelic with ladies
All sorted
Bout time this happened, and separate boards for each sport. .
hurling and football is akin to soccer and cricket"
You're probably right in that. Ultimately the GAA will cope if this farcical PC nonsense is forced through. I imagine though it will be a bigger problem for the rugby authorities. And in that scenario it hasn't a snowball's chance of being implemented cos given the influence the IRFU have, if they oppose it it will be dead in the water

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2020 - 14/12/2016 10:44:28    1940038

Link

While generally not a fan of gender quotas (I think the best person should always get the job regardless of gender or race etc), I think it would be a stretch to say that women get the same encourage and opportunities as men when it comes to senior positions, particularly in sport, which is still very male dominated.

The other thing is though, are women generally speaking as interested in sport as men, for example if you see a group of women meeting up for lunch, how much time will they spend talking about football, Gaa or rugby? If we're being honest, generally speaking men will spend a lot more time talking sport, BUT with equal encouragement and more female role models in sport to look up to, maybe things would change, I don't know.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 14/12/2016 11:22:07    1940046

Link

Replying To Greengrass:  "So should we have 30% male member participation on the boards of directors of the Camogie and Ladie Football associations ?"
Men are well represented in Ladies Football and Camogie - especially on the local county boards, the fact is if you amalgamated Ladies football, Camogie and the GAA the required quota's would be met or much easier to meet.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 14/12/2016 11:53:07    1940054

Link

Htaem yes that could be a positive alright.. imagine women more interested in sport than in watching the soaps...more harmony in the home and no need for separate TVs when major sporting events are being televised. Pigs will fly too.

If they want to go down the gender route it shouldn't just be just about male vs female quotas. Needss to be at least 10% of posts left aside for LGBTQX, and whatever youre having yourself people as well. Same percentages for referees, umpires, sideline officials, water carriers and grass cutters too.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2020 - 14/12/2016 11:56:16    1940055

Link

Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Htaem yes that could be a positive alright.. imagine women more interested in sport than in watching the soaps...more harmony in the home and no need for separate TVs when major sporting events are being televised. Pigs will fly too.

If they want to go down the gender route it shouldn't just be just about male vs female quotas. Needss to be at least 10% of posts left aside for LGBTQX, and whatever youre having yourself people as well. Same percentages for referees, umpires, sideline officials, water carriers and grass cutters too."
Yep I agree gender quotas are nonsense, pigs won't fly though, no wings lad.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 14/12/2016 12:38:08    1940059

Link

Replying To Htaem:  "While generally not a fan of gender quotas (I think the best person should always get the job regardless of gender or race etc), I think it would be a stretch to say that women get the same encourage and opportunities as men when it comes to senior positions, particularly in sport, which is still very male dominated.

The other thing is though, are women generally speaking as interested in sport as men, for example if you see a group of women meeting up for lunch, how much time will they spend talking about football, Gaa or rugby? If we're being honest, generally speaking men will spend a lot more time talking sport, BUT with equal encouragement and more female role models in sport to look up to, maybe things would change, I don't know."
Yeah agree. We just have to accept that there will always be things in society which are more male orientated and those which are more female. The very fact that we have different instincts and genetic tuning means we will have roles which suit one sex better than the other. It is generally accepted that women are more caring, emotional etc which is why you see more females taking up professions in nursing, teaching etc than males. Similarly, men would be in general accepted as being stronger or physical and as such professions like Farming, Trades etc are male dominated. Only a few weeks ago a report was released around stress and PTSD which highlighted that given the chemistry in the brain, females were more sensitive to the key stress hormone than males and also it was more prolonged compared to the male brain which was less sensitive and also cleared the hormone quicker from the body. Do you just ignore these factors of nature and say there still has to be quotas met? And if you go down the route (as society seems to be going over the last couple of decades) of introducing quotas based on Gender and for the purpose of having more balance in every workplace or piece of society then you could be creating a lot of problems. Rather than having it policy that you have to employ certain percentages of different genders it has to be the best person for the particular job that gets the job in all circumstances, if that is a man give it to the man, if it is a woman give it to the woman. That's not to say there isn't inequality in certain professions, or maybe companies more than professions, that could be defined gender equal (if using all factors like mentioned above) and these do need to be addressed. But slapping a quota I don't think is the way to go about it - look how it worked out for the PSNI in the 50/50 recruiting.

And to use an example - would Arlene Foster be in the position she is in today had she not been female? There was a lot of media and general society talk that when Robinson left it was now time for the DUP to have a female leader. And despite the fact that a number of the other names put forward at that time were better positioned to take over the role, having worked up through the ranks of the party, they were overlooked. Not as obvious a gender quota thing but borne out of the same school of thought.

Society doesn't always know best.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/12/2016 12:56:34    1940062

Link

Men are well represented in Ladies Football and Camogie - especially on the local county boards, the fact is if you amalgamated Ladies football, Camogie and the GAA the required quota's would be met or much easier to meet.
arock (Dublin) - Posts:3154 - 14/12/2016 11:53:07

Exactly. If these quotas are introduced (highly unlikely I'd say) then this is the route the three organisations should go. It could be done in a way that gives the LGFA and Camogie Association plenty of autonomy while benefiting from being part of a bigger organisation.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13802 - 14/12/2016 13:34:21    1940071

Link

Replying To bad.monkey:  "Boards are representative bodies , they are suppose to represent their members interests. There are a thousands of female sports club members they should have at least some female representation at board level.
Individual professions like primary teaching are not really comparable to representative bodies - boards, politicians. are there any barriers to entry for male teachers? . Nope , just some professions attract more males or females.

Alano best person for the job is exactly what everyone wants but it is not happening because of historical gender inequality. These quotas are a push to re-balance things and then we will have a natural balance and level playing field in the future"
it wont though..it will put women on boards that they havent been added to in a natural way instead being forced there instead of merit which isnt a good thing...there should be a policy encouraging women to get more involved and greater women representation but a gender quota is not the answer

alano12 (Dublin) - Posts: 2208 - 14/12/2016 15:05:20    1940109

Link

Replying To alano12:  "
Replying To bad.monkey:  "Boards are representative bodies , they are suppose to represent their members interests. There are a thousands of female sports club members they should have at least some female representation at board level.
Individual professions like primary teaching are not really comparable to representative bodies - boards, politicians. are there any barriers to entry for male teachers? . Nope , just some professions attract more males or females.

Alano best person for the job is exactly what everyone wants but it is not happening because of historical gender inequality. These quotas are a push to re-balance things and then we will have a natural balance and level playing field in the future"
it wont though..it will put women on boards that they havent been added to in a natural way instead being forced there instead of merit which isnt a good thing...there should be a policy encouraging women to get more involved and greater women representation but a gender quota is not the answer"
I agree that the natural way would be the best way but we are starting from a very unnatural position of 100% male boards. A natural balance could take a very very long time...quotas speed up the re-balancing so a norm is established which will then continue naturally

It should not be forgotten that a board of mixed male & female perspectives would be beneficial to the sporting bodies as another poster pointed out happened in their club.

There are far more females from kids to grannies at Dublin matches now than when I started going in the 80s. They deserve some representation now, not only in decades to come

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4649 - 14/12/2016 18:55:57    1940159

Link

Virgin media/TV3'S newly acquired UTV have rebranded it be3, and reading from the report it say's it will be a female focused channel, gender balance gone out the window and PC gone up in smoke, not my pc by the way but Political Correctness. (just an observation)

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3179 - 19/12/2016 10:12:56    1940907

Link

Replying To bad.monkey:  "
Replying To alano12:  "[quote=bad.monkey:  "Boards are representative bodies , they are suppose to represent their members interests. There are a thousands of female sports club members they should have at least some female representation at board level.
Individual professions like primary teaching are not really comparable to representative bodies - boards, politicians. are there any barriers to entry for male teachers? . Nope , just some professions attract more males or females.

Alano best person for the job is exactly what everyone wants but it is not happening because of historical gender inequality. These quotas are a push to re-balance things and then we will have a natural balance and level playing field in the future"
it wont though..it will put women on boards that they havent been added to in a natural way instead being forced there instead of merit which isnt a good thing...there should be a policy encouraging women to get more involved and greater women representation but a gender quota is not the answer"
I agree that the natural way would be the best way but we are starting from a very unnatural position of 100% male boards. A natural balance could take a very very long time...quotas speed up the re-balancing so a norm is established which will then continue naturally

It should not be forgotten that a board of mixed male & female perspectives would be beneficial to the sporting bodies as another poster pointed out happened in their club.

There are far more females from kids to grannies at Dublin matches now than when I started going in the 80s. They deserve some representation now, not only in decades to come"]I don't agree at all bad.monkey. Thankfully the idea of financial penalties is off the table. That would have hurt participants. The only way to remedy this particular situation is to put in place a pathway for aspiring female administrators to follow . That is an organic and sustainable solution to the perceived problem. Quotas are crude, blunt, lazy instruments that would only serve to undermine the credibility of those who are imposed in to positions as a result of them. Roisin Jordan has already expressed a preference for aspiring female administrators to be assisted in their ambitions as opposed to being imposed on to boards. I don't agree that female administrators have been actively blocked in The GAA. I remember a female secretary of the minor board in my own county working in that position over thirty years ago. The same was true in my own club.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6180 - 19/12/2016 10:29:50    1940911

Link

Replying To supersub15:  "Virgin media/TV3'S newly acquired UTV have rebranded it be3, and reading from the report it say's it will be a female focused channel, gender balance gone out the window and PC gone up in smoke, not my pc by the way but Political Correctness. (just an observation)"
Yeah you're right, and you know what else I saw a channel dedicated just to children the other day it's an absolute disgrace!

Now where can I find reruns of Top Gear, preferably on a channel with a guys name, and maybe some brilliant tagline like "The Home of Witty Banter"

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 19/12/2016 10:37:41    1940912

Link