Meath Forum

Pairc Tailteann

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Agree with this. I bought them but honestly whoever was in charge of marketing made a hames of it."
I promise im not going to beat my normal drum about how these same people who have ultimate responsibility for this Draw...are same ones who have responsibility for the faith of our games within the County.....But I do want to ask a serious enough question, and do hope that there is some positive answer out there...…...Can anyone name a project, an event, a plan , a development, or a structure , that these People have put in place...over the last 20 years , that could be , honestly described as …. Innovative, ahead of its time, Best in class, Value for money and/or a great investment of either money or resources?,

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 145 - 07/04/2021 13:45:17    2336191

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "I promise im not going to beat my normal drum about how these same people who have ultimate responsibility for this Draw...are same ones who have responsibility for the faith of our games within the County.....But I do want to ask a serious enough question, and do hope that there is some positive answer out there...…...Can anyone name a project, an event, a plan , a development, or a structure , that these People have put in place...over the last 20 years , that could be , honestly described as …. Innovative, ahead of its time, Best in class, Value for money and/or a great investment of either money or resources?,"
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I would say that since likes of Kenny, O Mealoid and Flynn have got involved, we've seen a lot more innovation. For eg the live coverage of some of the senior and intermediate championship last year was as good as you will see anywhere in the country and was genuinely innovative as there weren't many counties doing it. The draw wasn't a huge success but Meath is a relatively prosperous county, I'm not sure many were interested in winning a house in a housing estate in Navan tbh (no disrespect).

I think the PT stadium project is a nice idea but its the wrong time for it in my opinion and its far too ambitious a project that is not really necessary. Navan is fit for purpose (for intercounty league matches and club matches). Its not suitable for large crowds in All Ireland qualifiers but then nobody died or was injured for the Tyrone qualifier in 2018 or for the Kerry Super 8 match in 2019. Thus for me its a wholly unnecessary and expensive endeavour that falls in the nice to have category. Its certainly not worth bankrupting the county for.

As an aside I see that Meath CC are looking for candidates for a full time paid role as some kind of director of development in Meath GAA.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1010 - 07/04/2021 14:14:07    2336192

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Replying To Crinigan:  "I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I would say that since likes of Kenny, O Mealoid and Flynn have got involved, we've seen a lot more innovation. For eg the live coverage of some of the senior and intermediate championship last year was as good as you will see anywhere in the country and was genuinely innovative as there weren't many counties doing it. The draw wasn't a huge success but Meath is a relatively prosperous county, I'm not sure many were interested in winning a house in a housing estate in Navan tbh (no disrespect).

I think the PT stadium project is a nice idea but its the wrong time for it in my opinion and its far too ambitious a project that is not really necessary. Navan is fit for purpose (for intercounty league matches and club matches). Its not suitable for large crowds in All Ireland qualifiers but then nobody died or was injured for the Tyrone qualifier in 2018 or for the Kerry Super 8 match in 2019. Thus for me its a wholly unnecessary and expensive endeavour that falls in the nice to have category. Its certainly not worth bankrupting the county for.

As an aside I see that Meath CC are looking for candidates for a full time paid role as some kind of director of development in Meath GAA."
ok...so far we have the Live streaming of Games in 2020

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 145 - 07/04/2021 16:17:48    2336196

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "ok...so far we have the Live streaming of Games in 2020"
Live Streaming of games was not new and is something some other counties have been doing for the past few years. So lets not think this is great innovation and if im not wrong it was done as far back as 2018, definitely was there in 2019.

As for the quality, it is very poor when you are paying for a product, if it was free you couldn't give out but when you are paying for it the least you expect is to have a wide lensed camera and no buffering, making it only slightly better than it being done on a phone.

As for the marketing of the House Draw, the book lies with the PRO, its is their responsibility to promote the promote the draw as much as possible and this is something which was not done.

Regarding the stadium itself, this (draw and pandemic) has proven we should only be looking at the stand to be redeveloped at this point perhaps concreting the two end if there is finance available, to enable H&S to allow them to be used, not sure if that would suffice or if it would need to be built up. I would take to heartache of the stand not being there for a year in order to see a proper stand. Portacabins could be installed as temporary dressing rooms and reduce the amount of games be played there and it could be tolerated for a year to 18 months.

juicy (Meath) - Posts: 388 - 08/04/2021 09:49:14    2336244

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See here's the thing, I think Pairc Tailtean is a microcosm of how our county board and senior mens football team is doing. Its outdated, still thinks the old ways are best, under prepared, needs a lick of paint and an injection of life into it.

Pairc Tailtean has been talked about for redevelopment since it reopened in the late 80's but with our football team in Croke Park most of the time until the 00's it never get a bit of attention. They played there 4/5 times a year and it was grand and fit for purpose. However the whole stadium and i use that term loosely has been a mess since that time. Starting with the floodlights and they were fitted in weren't correct and had to be pulled down later, We were going to sell them on or repurpose them or correct them so they were usable. As far as i know they're still sitting out in the car park gathering moss.

Delgany was another huge project they tried undertaking but that was funded by clubs and grants, donations and a couple of raffles but like anything the attempt was half hearted and the project was done in stages and by the time it was complete it was obvious to all it needed to be at least double the size to cater for the needs.

Since then we've had the on again off again saga of redeveloping PT but it was half a***d and only when a few people got behind it and drove it on did something happen. The plans and tendering process was a joke and delayed us by years and then we went looking for government funding and GAA funding whilst having to raise money ourselves, which again was half a***d and raised barely a scratch in the overall funds needed. The whole process of how the stadium will be built can't even be agreed on and that is why not a sod has been turned despite the funding being agreed.

Unfortunately the county board is run by a bunch of people who aren't suitable for the job in my opinion. Look at some of the more modern county boards, younger men, successful business people who are high achievers in life. As i said remember their attitude when Colm O'Rourke laid out a long term plan and the laughed him out of the door and the three wise men approach never got out of the gate.

However there is one thing I will give the county board credit for and that is the following. They never bankrupt the county. When redevelopments and free money was floating during the celtic tiger years in the 00's and again in the late teens they resisted going the way of many counties and building these big white concrete elephants which aren't needed and rarely used and counties had to be bailed out for overspending on stadia that weren't needed.

Ultimately i don't think we'll see any development of Pairc Tailtean in the next ten years. The Government and Leinster Council funding which was in place just won't be there after the pandemic clears. Give the holes in our economy caused by COVID and no attendances at GAA matches for 2 championship seasons, the country and GAA as a whole can't justify the building of these concrete elephants when they're not important.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1099 - 08/04/2021 09:58:30    2336249

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "I promise im not going to beat my normal drum about how these same people who have ultimate responsibility for this Draw...are same ones who have responsibility for the faith of our games within the County.....But I do want to ask a serious enough question, and do hope that there is some positive answer out there...…...Can anyone name a project, an event, a plan , a development, or a structure , that these People have put in place...over the last 20 years , that could be , honestly described as …. Innovative, ahead of its time, Best in class, Value for money and/or a great investment of either money or resources?,"
I'm by no means a fan of the current Co Board set-up, but it's all too easy to pass the responsibility for the situation in Meath over to them.

Over the last few years there have been coaching seminars organised in an effort to improve things. A few years ago there was one organised in Dunganny where John Coghlan gave a lecture. He was the S&C coach with the county teams at the time and we were told that the intention was that his expertise would be available to the clubs in Meath as well. I would have applauded that initiative as it was very obvious at the time that S&C was an alien concept to most clubs around Meath. I would say there was max. 15 clubs represented in Dunganny that day and the ones who were there were the ones you'd expect.

Similarly, last year there was a session which had a briefing from David Gough on the new rules and a session with Steven Poacher. He is not everyone's cup of tea, but there is plenty to be gained for ordinary club coaches by looking at the way he thinks about the game and his approach to training sessions. Again, a handful of clubs were represented.

This is all at a time when the standard of the club game in Meath is the lowest that I remember in all my time involved. And I take no joy in saying that as someone still involved in the club scene.

Initiatives like the ones above are badly needed but just as badly supported. I think the biggest problem in Meath is there is no growth mindset. We don't like to present ourselves as anything other than having all of the answers. It is like an arrogance. I think this arrogance and unwillingness to learn is especially visible in the Co Board, but most probably that's because they are the ultimate representation of the general attitude in Meath GAA. Going back to our heyday it quite possibly worked in our favour. Back then we had belief, but also something to base that on. Nowadays we still have the belief but it's built on nothing. Football has moved on and if you're not willing to learn and keep pace with the changes, then you are going to be left behind. It seems that we aren't and we have.

There is no quick fix to our situation in Meath but it's going to take hard work. From what I see going around the county, the stomach for that hard work is not there. On this site people are more interested in debating who should manage the senior team. It makes no difference who manages it for the next 10 years unless we sort out the issues in club and underage. If we don't sort them out, then it won't make any difference even at that stage. We will be a busted flush.

The Pairc Tailteann thing is to me a "nice-to-have" but will probably just end up being another millstone around our neck. It's good to have ambition, but the solution presented is far too elaborate and costly for what is essentially a problem with the stand.

If you have ideas about how things could be done better, even in your own club, then get out there and do them. Otherwise it's all just talk.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 442 - 08/04/2021 10:18:07    2336252

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Replying To brian:  "See here's the thing, I think Pairc Tailtean is a microcosm of how our county board and senior mens football team is doing. Its outdated, still thinks the old ways are best, under prepared, needs a lick of paint and an injection of life into it.

Pairc Tailtean has been talked about for redevelopment since it reopened in the late 80's but with our football team in Croke Park most of the time until the 00's it never get a bit of attention. They played there 4/5 times a year and it was grand and fit for purpose. However the whole stadium and i use that term loosely has been a mess since that time. Starting with the floodlights and they were fitted in weren't correct and had to be pulled down later, We were going to sell them on or repurpose them or correct them so they were usable. As far as i know they're still sitting out in the car park gathering moss.

Delgany was another huge project they tried undertaking but that was funded by clubs and grants, donations and a couple of raffles but like anything the attempt was half hearted and the project was done in stages and by the time it was complete it was obvious to all it needed to be at least double the size to cater for the needs.

Since then we've had the on again off again saga of redeveloping PT but it was half a***d and only when a few people got behind it and drove it on did something happen. The plans and tendering process was a joke and delayed us by years and then we went looking for government funding and GAA funding whilst having to raise money ourselves, which again was half a***d and raised barely a scratch in the overall funds needed. The whole process of how the stadium will be built can't even be agreed on and that is why not a sod has been turned despite the funding being agreed.

Unfortunately the county board is run by a bunch of people who aren't suitable for the job in my opinion. Look at some of the more modern county boards, younger men, successful business people who are high achievers in life. As i said remember their attitude when Colm O'Rourke laid out a long term plan and the laughed him out of the door and the three wise men approach never got out of the gate.

However there is one thing I will give the county board credit for and that is the following. They never bankrupt the county. When redevelopments and free money was floating during the celtic tiger years in the 00's and again in the late teens they resisted going the way of many counties and building these big white concrete elephants which aren't needed and rarely used and counties had to be bailed out for overspending on stadia that weren't needed.

Ultimately i don't think we'll see any development of Pairc Tailtean in the next ten years. The Government and Leinster Council funding which was in place just won't be there after the pandemic clears. Give the holes in our economy caused by COVID and no attendances at GAA matches for 2 championship seasons, the country and GAA as a whole can't justify the building of these concrete elephants when they're not important."
Ok....so im going to delete the first suggestion , which was the streaming of games last year ...as there doesn't seem to be universal consensus that this was innovative or best in class, and im going to Replace it with a new number 1....They haven't Bankrupted the County Board.
So we have a start

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 145 - 08/04/2021 10:35:02    2336259

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "I promise im not going to beat my normal drum about how these same people who have ultimate responsibility for this Draw...are same ones who have responsibility for the faith of our games within the County.....But I do want to ask a serious enough question, and do hope that there is some positive answer out there...…...Can anyone name a project, an event, a plan , a development, or a structure , that these People have put in place...over the last 20 years , that could be , honestly described as …. Innovative, ahead of its time, Best in class, Value for money and/or a great investment of either money or resources?,"
Honest answer. No. Unfortunately I can't name one

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17360 - 08/04/2021 12:24:21    2336289

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Honest answer. No. Unfortunately I can't name one"
Lets leave this open for a week or so...because I genuinely want something to cling too.
One further add-on here ….Let me be clear, Responsibility to deliver anything in an Organisation ...rests with the Executives...not the foot soldiers. I personally believe we have had & still have some top quality County Board Reps and volunteers who are loosely part of the many "County Boards" over the last 20 years….i'm not tarnishing them by failures of those tasked....and mandated to Deliver …..so lads/lassies co opted onto Finance Committees, out selling tickets on house Draws door to door in all weather ....are not the failures here …..

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 145 - 08/04/2021 15:21:39    2336350

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Replying To brian:  "See here's the thing, I think Pairc Tailtean is a microcosm of how our county board and senior mens football team is doing. Its outdated, still thinks the old ways are best, under prepared, needs a lick of paint and an injection of life into it.

Pairc Tailtean has been talked about for redevelopment since it reopened in the late 80's but with our football team in Croke Park most of the time until the 00's it never get a bit of attention. They played there 4/5 times a year and it was grand and fit for purpose. However the whole stadium and i use that term loosely has been a mess since that time. Starting with the floodlights and they were fitted in weren't correct and had to be pulled down later, We were going to sell them on or repurpose them or correct them so they were usable. As far as i know they're still sitting out in the car park gathering moss.

Delgany was another huge project they tried undertaking but that was funded by clubs and grants, donations and a couple of raffles but like anything the attempt was half hearted and the project was done in stages and by the time it was complete it was obvious to all it needed to be at least double the size to cater for the needs.

Since then we've had the on again off again saga of redeveloping PT but it was half a***d and only when a few people got behind it and drove it on did something happen. The plans and tendering process was a joke and delayed us by years and then we went looking for government funding and GAA funding whilst having to raise money ourselves, which again was half a***d and raised barely a scratch in the overall funds needed. The whole process of how the stadium will be built can't even be agreed on and that is why not a sod has been turned despite the funding being agreed.

Unfortunately the county board is run by a bunch of people who aren't suitable for the job in my opinion. Look at some of the more modern county boards, younger men, successful business people who are high achievers in life. As i said remember their attitude when Colm O'Rourke laid out a long term plan and the laughed him out of the door and the three wise men approach never got out of the gate.

However there is one thing I will give the county board credit for and that is the following. They never bankrupt the county. When redevelopments and free money was floating during the celtic tiger years in the 00's and again in the late teens they resisted going the way of many counties and building these big white concrete elephants which aren't needed and rarely used and counties had to be bailed out for overspending on stadia that weren't needed.

Ultimately i don't think we'll see any development of Pairc Tailtean in the next ten years. The Government and Leinster Council funding which was in place just won't be there after the pandemic clears. Give the holes in our economy caused by COVID and no attendances at GAA matches for 2 championship seasons, the country and GAA as a whole can't justify the building of these concrete elephants when they're not important."
The reason a sod hasn't been turned us because neither Leinster nor Central Council have the money to match up to the funding granted under the LSSIF, that funding was in part granted on the basis that additional funding would be forthcoming from those two sources, Covid has put a big delay on that, otherwise work of some kind would have stated by now, you can't fully tender a project until you have the financial i's dotted and t's crossed. The LSSIF funding will be safe, need I remind you that only last week Finn Harps were awarded €4 million under the same scheme for development of a new ground so the money will be there.

As regards big white concrete elephants well we were never going to have one of them, but some advances on comfort would have been nice, as I said before the grass banks should have been gone long ago and the stand either completely gutted or knocked and rebuilt, that could have been done gradually over a few years at no financial burden, we have been far too conservative in that regard.

Our house draw has been shown up now to be a shambles and the Board do need to take stock of that, although I think some clubs need to look themselves in the mirror over that too, but having three separate draws was a poor decision and the profit earned was embarrassing compared to other counties.

If you think the people on the board aren't suitable then first place to look is your club, for years I've seen the position of club delegate to the county board left as the last decision on the night of an AGM when everyone is browned off, dying for a pint or a fag and couldn't give a thrupenny toss who got the job, it was often left to two aul stalwarts who would be happy enough to meet fiends from other clubs one night a month in Navan for a chat and pay damn all heed to what was going on or what was to be voted for or what the issues were........nothing, down for the tae just, and that's where the problem starts, we lost a decent man as a senior manager in 2010 over delegates deciding they knew what was best but instead they drove Meath football back years, so if you think the people on the board aren't suitable look at your club first and ask questions there.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 12/04/2021 19:52:30    2337015

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Ok now this is an interesting development, outside the box thinking indeed.......


Chairman John Kavanagh delivered some good news as well as disappointing news regarding finance for the redevelopment of Pairc Tailteann at last night's county committee meeting.

The chairman said work was continuing in the background regarding Pairc Tailteann and meetings had taken place with the National Finance Committee in Croke Park.

In recent days confirmation was received of a contribution of just €1.6m for the development over a four year period from Croke Park, well below what was expected prior to the pandemic. Leinster Council had given a commitment of €400,000, bringing the funding to €2m which Kavanagh described as 'very disappointing.'

Kavanagh said they would be pressing for an advance of funding from both bodies but understood their hands were tied to an extent due to the massive financial hit the association took in 2020.

However Kavanagh had more positive news on another source of funding, The Immigrant Investment Programme. This programme was set up by the Government back in 2012 aimed at facilitating migrant entrepreneurs and investors from outside the European Economic Area who, in return for permission to reside in the State, are prepared to invest in certain projects.

The chairman said this was something his committee had been working on over the past 12 months and they had already secured one investor to the tune of €4000,000 with four more for the same amount in the pipeline. Fees of 15% must be paid on every €400,000 secured.

Kavanagh said a lot of work had gone into this by the infrastructure committee while Croke Park had also been involved and complimented Meath on their 'outside the box' thinking.

He assured delegates that there was 'no hidden agendas' involved in the process and also stated that there was no limit to the number of investors.

Regarding correspondence from former county chairman Barney Allen about the development the chairman said they had replied to the letter and reaffirmed that no land had been handed over to Meath County Council and that car park space would remain exactly what it was previously, and that everything was 100% above board.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 13/04/2021 10:53:57    2337044

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Replying To Richieq:  "Ok now this is an interesting development, outside the box thinking indeed.......


Chairman John Kavanagh delivered some good news as well as disappointing news regarding finance for the redevelopment of Pairc Tailteann at last night's county committee meeting.

The chairman said work was continuing in the background regarding Pairc Tailteann and meetings had taken place with the National Finance Committee in Croke Park.

In recent days confirmation was received of a contribution of just €1.6m for the development over a four year period from Croke Park, well below what was expected prior to the pandemic. Leinster Council had given a commitment of €400,000, bringing the funding to €2m which Kavanagh described as 'very disappointing.'

Kavanagh said they would be pressing for an advance of funding from both bodies but understood their hands were tied to an extent due to the massive financial hit the association took in 2020.

However Kavanagh had more positive news on another source of funding, The Immigrant Investment Programme. This programme was set up by the Government back in 2012 aimed at facilitating migrant entrepreneurs and investors from outside the European Economic Area who, in return for permission to reside in the State, are prepared to invest in certain projects.

The chairman said this was something his committee had been working on over the past 12 months and they had already secured one investor to the tune of €4000,000 with four more for the same amount in the pipeline. Fees of 15% must be paid on every €400,000 secured.

Kavanagh said a lot of work had gone into this by the infrastructure committee while Croke Park had also been involved and complimented Meath on their 'outside the box' thinking.

He assured delegates that there was 'no hidden agendas' involved in the process and also stated that there was no limit to the number of investors.

Regarding correspondence from former county chairman Barney Allen about the development the chairman said they had replied to the letter and reaffirmed that no land had been handed over to Meath County Council and that car park space would remain exactly what it was previously, and that everything was 100% above board."
Very concerning where these other funds are coming from. Nobody gives that kind of money for the good of their health. Doesn't take much imagination to think of where such funds might be coming from.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1010 - 13/04/2021 12:06:24    2337052

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Replying To Crinigan:  "Very concerning where these other funds are coming from. Nobody gives that kind of money for the good of their health. Doesn't take much imagination to think of where such funds might be coming from."
sweet jazuz….."no hidden agenda"...."100% above board"...when you have to use those terms when announcing funding...the mind boggles....I assume this is the new version of the passports for cash scheme....

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 145 - 14/04/2021 17:04:50    2337204

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I will be honest, I don't care where funding is coming from. If that makes me a bad person then so be it.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17360 - 14/04/2021 18:16:30    2337215

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "sweet jazuz….."no hidden agenda"...."100% above board"...when you have to use those terms when announcing funding...the mind boggles....I assume this is the new version of the passports for cash scheme...."
I am presuming those terms were used as questions were being asked by delegates and those were assurances, I don't think any funding for a GAA club or board would ever have come from this type of source before, once it's legit I wouldn't care personally

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 14/04/2021 18:59:02    2337218

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Replying To Richieq:  "I am presuming those terms were used as questions were being asked by delegates and those were assurances, I don't think any funding for a GAA club or board would ever have come from this type of source before, once it's legit I wouldn't care personally"
There are certain countries and one Asian country in particular that is buying up assets and "acquiring" assets all over Africa and the Balkans. Indeed this country also owns football clubs in the UK in strategically important port and rail cities. These investments start off as generous grants and donations in exchange for soft power. If eventually you own all the strategic assets in a country and that country is heavily in debt to you with high interest loans.... that country essentially owns you. I've seen this first hand in Africa. Workers come from the origin country, strip every asset off the land and bring the bounty home. The African country gets nothing and their resources are gone. The country is literally stripped like a dead carcass.

So what's the end game for these investors and more importantly the powers behind them? What does Meath have that they want? The world class agriculture? The heritage sites? The motorway?

I can assure you they haven't taken a sudden and bizarre interest in the fate of Meath GAA for the craic.

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1010 - 15/04/2021 10:23:45    2337263

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Replying To royaldunne:  "I will be honest, I don't care where funding is coming from. If that makes me a bad person then so be it."
its nothing to do with any of us being bad people or otherwise….. cause Im sure You are not. We are supporters , and we would move heaven & earth to see our county back at the top table, competing again, and being really respected. Im just worried that in our haste to get there, we can make bad choices that can have lasting effects . the most important things we retain , while we rebuild towards national respect ...is our integrity , identity and independence ...….if the funds are 100%...and it doesn't impinge on any of these things....well then "chocs away"...and best wishes

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 145 - 15/04/2021 17:16:15    2337325

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Replying To Crinigan:  "There are certain countries and one Asian country in particular that is buying up assets and "acquiring" assets all over Africa and the Balkans. Indeed this country also owns football clubs in the UK in strategically important port and rail cities. These investments start off as generous grants and donations in exchange for soft power. If eventually you own all the strategic assets in a country and that country is heavily in debt to you with high interest loans.... that country essentially owns you. I've seen this first hand in Africa. Workers come from the origin country, strip every asset off the land and bring the bounty home. The African country gets nothing and their resources are gone. The country is literally stripped like a dead carcass.

So what's the end game for these investors and more importantly the powers behind them? What does Meath have that they want? The world class agriculture? The heritage sites? The motorway?

I can assure you they haven't taken a sudden and bizarre interest in the fate of Meath GAA for the craic."
Think you may be reading too much into this, no doubt China are investing and acquiring assets and their intentions are questionable at best, however this scheme "is strictly administered by the Department of Justice and facilitates non-EEA nationals, typically high net worth individuals, and their families to acquire residency status in Ireland". For once our CB seems to be ahead of the pack on this occassion and deserve credit for initiative.
Todays Examiner gives more details.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40266263.html

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 1524 - 15/04/2021 19:05:53    2337335

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Replying To Thelongwoodslasher:  "its nothing to do with any of us being bad people or otherwise….. cause Im sure You are not. We are supporters , and we would move heaven & earth to see our county back at the top table, competing again, and being really respected. Im just worried that in our haste to get there, we can make bad choices that can have lasting effects . the most important things we retain , while we rebuild towards national respect ...is our integrity , identity and independence ...….if the funds are 100%...and it doesn't impinge on any of these things....well then "chocs away"...and best wishes"
good positive article on this subject by Colm Keys last week....so I do think we may have found (here's hoping) our first item for the list

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 145 - 20/04/2021 17:48:30    2338077

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