Meath Forum

Pairc Tailteann

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Replying To royaldunne:  "I actually have a relation who works in this business and has intentions of tendering for this particular aspect in pt. I asked him roughly how much. I'm obviously not gonna say what he said on a public forum but I'll tell you this it's not millions. Now it's not cheep as this can only be done by a few reputable (of which he is one) contractors in this country , it is then shipped to Scotland/Germany for safe disposal."
Something wrong here, RD appears to agree with me at last. Ah the spirit of Christmas and have a good one.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 787 - 18/12/2018 11:01:17    2154591

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There seems to be a lot of knowledge out there about the asbestos. Maybe we should give the contract to dispose to Royaldunne and he could sub-contract it out-maybe to the Cavan man!. Disposing of it will be expensive but at this time all we can do is speculate.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2224 - 18/12/2018 11:52:58    2154598

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Replying To browncows:  "There seems to be a lot of knowledge out there about the asbestos. Maybe we should give the contract to dispose to Royaldunne and he could sub-contract it out-maybe to the Cavan man!. Disposing of it will be expensive but at this time all we can do is speculate."
It will be expensive of course and a lot of that expense will be spent on the suits having to stand and watch with clipboards but it won't cost millions that's all that's being said.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 18/12/2018 12:56:30    2154607

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Just wondering how you could compare 99 with19. No comparison with health and safety.

latouche25 (Meath) - Posts: 328 - 18/12/2018 16:27:56    2154632

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Replying To MillerX:  "Something wrong here, RD appears to agree with me at last. Ah the spirit of Christmas and have a good one."
It's a Christmas miracle lol.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17267 - 18/12/2018 17:45:00    2154640

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Replying To Richieq:  "I remember working beside Croke Park in '99 when the old Hogan was being taken down, a hell of a lot more asbestos sheets on that roof but it was taken down sheet by sheet and wrapped in plastic in bundles of 25 sheets and shipped to Dublin Port to be buried in the polders in Holland, roof was stripped in less than a fortnight, and a well connected farmer in Limerick bought the a-frame steel supports for a fine array of sheds on his lands!! Removing the asbestos sheets in Navan would be done in days and whilst specialist companies are needed as well as inspectors on site it certainly would not come near a 7 figure sum to dispose of a roof of that size, a pity mind you they didn't replace the entire roof when the gable ends were replaced in the 90's and they could just raze through it when the time comes."
Yeah it's no where near 7 figures. About a week I'd say would remove it. The actual removal of sheet by sheet is a quick job, it's the inspection of each sheet and the inspecting of wrapping it and putting it on to freight is what slows the whole process down. Again that's according to my relation.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17267 - 18/12/2018 17:49:17    2154641

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Replying To Richieq:  "It will be expensive of course and a lot of that expense will be spent on the suits having to stand and watch with clipboards but it won't cost millions that's all that's being said."
That's it it's the guys in the suits who don't ever touch the stuff writing on clipboards who make the money out of it. Look it's not cheep my relation is currently working down in mayo removing something a lot more difficult than the sheets in pt. Again it's the suits and ties standing around not doing any of the actual works who get the big pay. But it's not millions,

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 17267 - 18/12/2018 17:53:11    2154642

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Replying To latouche25:  "Just wondering how you could compare 99 with19. No comparison with health and safety."
Asbestos sheeting was widely known to be a dangerous substance if cracked or broken back then, hence why it was wrapped several times when taken down, the overseers were there on mass, health and safety involving asbestos has had strict guidelines since before '99.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 19/12/2018 05:42:54    2154680

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I think with all spiraling costs of kids hospital and Pairc Uí Caoimh, the viability of four new stands in Pairc Tailtean has to be realistically costed and we have to make sure whatever contracts are signed are not similar open ended but fixed price.
I personally think 2 stands and the rest terrace would be more than adequate.

madmeath (Meath) - Posts: 44 - 06/02/2019 15:47:46    2163010

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Replying To madmeath:  "I think with all spiraling costs of kids hospital and Pairc Uí Caoimh, the viability of four new stands in Pairc Tailtean has to be realistically costed and we have to make sure whatever contracts are signed are not similar open ended but fixed price.
I personally think 2 stands and the rest terrace would be more than adequate."
Would agree 100%, we could even get away with not touching the existing terrace.

I think the bigger point given the state of the pitch in Pairc Uí Caoimh, that the pitch cannot be touch in Pairc Tailtean, it is one of the best sods in the country so to see it ruined would be a disaster.

juicy (Meath) - Posts: 386 - 06/02/2019 16:37:31    2163027

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Replying To juicy:  "Would agree 100%, we could even get away with not touching the existing terrace.

I think the bigger point given the state of the pitch in Pairc Uí Caoimh, that the pitch cannot be touch in Pairc Tailtean, it is one of the best sods in the country so to see it ruined would be a disaster."
I agree 100%. The concrete terrace is the only piece of spectator infrastructure that meets current safety standards and SHOULD be left as it is. Go ahead and replace the stand on its current footprint or very slightly back from it to protect the present pitch. New dressing rooms, shops offices etc should be incorporated into this structure, if possible floodlights should be provided at this stage. Finally complete the end terraces to a similar standard to the existing terrace. All contracts should be very precise as regards to costs. Only if exceptional problems are encountered should any increase in price be considered and an arbitration process should be in place to assist with this and should be a condition of the contract.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 787 - 06/02/2019 18:28:15    2163052

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Replying To MillerX:  "I agree 100%. The concrete terrace is the only piece of spectator infrastructure that meets current safety standards and SHOULD be left as it is. Go ahead and replace the stand on its current footprint or very slightly back from it to protect the present pitch. New dressing rooms, shops offices etc should be incorporated into this structure, if possible floodlights should be provided at this stage. Finally complete the end terraces to a similar standard to the existing terrace. All contracts should be very precise as regards to costs. Only if exceptional problems are encountered should any increase in price be considered and an arbitration process should be in place to assist with this and should be a condition of the contract."
The reinstatement of the floodlights is included in Phase 1 as is some minor alteration to the pitch dimensions but not the pitch itself, nothing is certain but rumour has it that the terrace will be worked on first primarily as the Council are very eager to regenerate that streetscape outside a new stand and also because if the stand goes first there will be no seating or covered accommodation available for around a year which essentially would shut the place down altogether. Comparisons with PUC are a little unfair I think as they were redeveloping an already substantial stadium that once had a 50'000 capacity and were incorporating a much higher spec (corporate, conference facilities etc) that what is planned in PT which is primarily aimed at facilities for players and the ordinary 5/8 spectator, additionally the demolition costs at PUC were huge in comparison to PT, three sides of our ground could essentially be cleaned out in a fortnight whilst PUC had solid structures with concourses to demolish all round and they ended up demolishing far more than expected due to unforeseen concrete decay, the covered stand and the bottom third of the terraces and uncovered stand were due to be knocked but they ended up demolishing everything but for some support frames of the two terraces due to weakened concrete.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 06/02/2019 21:29:05    2163089

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Replying To Richieq:  "The reinstatement of the floodlights is included in Phase 1 as is some minor alteration to the pitch dimensions but not the pitch itself, nothing is certain but rumour has it that the terrace will be worked on first primarily as the Council are very eager to regenerate that streetscape outside a new stand and also because if the stand goes first there will be no seating or covered accommodation available for around a year which essentially would shut the place down altogether. Comparisons with PUC are a little unfair I think as they were redeveloping an already substantial stadium that once had a 50'000 capacity and were incorporating a much higher spec (corporate, conference facilities etc) that what is planned in PT which is primarily aimed at facilities for players and the ordinary 5/8 spectator, additionally the demolition costs at PUC were huge in comparison to PT, three sides of our ground could essentially be cleaned out in a fortnight whilst PUC had solid structures with concourses to demolish all round and they ended up demolishing far more than expected due to unforeseen concrete decay, the covered stand and the bottom third of the terraces and uncovered stand were due to be knocked but they ended up demolishing everything but for some support frames of the two terraces due to weakened concrete."
Now the council have put their oar in. Why did they not bring this up at the planning stage? Maybe they did but it seems strange that at a County Board meeting late last year the chairman informed the meeting that nothing was decided as to what phase would be done first. From this we can only deduce that the order of development is not part of the planning permission.

So if the council now want to dictate we negotiate a price with them.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 787 - 07/02/2019 11:00:10    2163149

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Replying To MillerX:  "Now the council have put their oar in. Why did they not bring this up at the planning stage? Maybe they did but it seems strange that at a County Board meeting late last year the chairman informed the meeting that nothing was decided as to what phase would be done first. From this we can only deduce that the order of development is not part of the planning permission.

So if the council now want to dictate we negotiate a price with them."
Nothing has been decided yet, this is a rumoured possibility and being honest even if the council had a preference for work to start on the terrace side it would probably still be a secondary consideration to how we would cope with no seats and no roof for over a year!!, I think that conundrum will go a long way to deciding where the work starts. But the most important thing is that work does start because no matter where it goes we need a decent stand.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3601 - 07/02/2019 13:14:15    2163195

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There is a lot of narrowmindedness with regard to the redevelopment of Pairc Tailteann.

It was clearly indicated that a number of phasing plans are proposed to ensure the workability of the stadium with the littlest of interference to Navan.

The reasoning to develop the terrace side first is to due to that side having the greatest connection with Brews Hill and Commons Road. The Council are not dictating anything it's purely based on a rational building approach for least disruption.

Comparisons to Pairc Ui Caoimh are just ridiculous. And was doomed from the start with demolition and then boring out for new structural foundations. As a 50,000 seater stadium with all the separate functions and conference rooms it's not fair to compare the stadiums.

The redeveloped Pairc Tailteann will be 21,000 all seater and is ear-marked as Leinsters second stadium. The all-seater model is going to be a first of its kind in for a GAA stadium and as stated, will be built in phases.

People need to row in behind the new stadium and support it. Personal preferences for terraces will leave the grounds between a rock and a hard place.

With Kildare developing their stand and Louth now purchasing land in Dundalk with plans for a new stadium, full support for the project is required.

Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 752 - 07/02/2019 18:20:06    2163287

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What I am hearing is that they are divided down the middle on whether to build the stand on the terrace or pull down stand and build a new one and that now it's looks like they will instead do both ends and then will have 3 stands and a great terrace maybe that's a better plan

Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 07/02/2019 18:54:33    2163298

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Replying To Brownepat:  "What I am hearing is that they are divided down the middle on whether to build the stand on the terrace or pull down stand and build a new one and that now it's looks like they will instead do both ends and then will have 3 stands and a great terrace maybe that's a better plan"
Yeah sounds like the best idea I have heard so far.

Barney123 (Meath) - Posts: 676 - 07/02/2019 20:22:16    2163317

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Replying To Brownepat:  "What I am hearing is that they are divided down the middle on whether to build the stand on the terrace or pull down stand and build a new one and that now it's looks like they will instead do both ends and then will have 3 stands and a great terrace maybe that's a better plan"
Brownepat can you upload that link/article to show discussions on the phasing of the two goal ends.

I would be interested to read it.

Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 752 - 09/02/2019 13:43:35    2163685

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They have to keep 1 terrace. Extra capacity and a lot of fans would rather stand then sit. I don't mind if 3 sides are seated but a terrace and a capacity of 25k would be better.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 10/02/2019 16:55:59    2164113

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "They have to keep 1 terrace. Extra capacity and a lot of fans would rather stand then sit. I don't mind if 3 sides are seated but a terrace and a capacity of 25k would be better."
3 stands and a large terrace would be perfect and well suited for Navan.

Again though people are missing the point that the 4 all-seater stands was the preferred design option and the design option chosen.

The proposed design is a master plan. If the monies are not secured then the 4 stands will not be built simple as.

In the phase design the 3 stands and existing terrace will result in a capacity of 22,500.

It could be 10 years before it's completed

Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 752 - 10/02/2019 17:17:13    2164125

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