Under 21 level is not a development grade in gaelic games (at club level). It is not somewhere you go to after under 21 and before senior/intermediate/junior level. It is a level you play at 2/3 times a year while also playing 'adult grades.
It may be different in other sports. '

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 13/05/2016 14:55:57    1854693

'No one ever suffered burnout from playing too much hurling in Longford!'. That might well be the best line written in Hoganstand history

onlyhurling (Galway) - Posts: 800 - 13/05/2016 18:18:25    1854759

"That might well be the best line written in Hoganstand history"

Aw, shucks!

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 13/05/2016 19:33:00    1854772

Don't think a lot of the rule - it has affected my club big time. However, I'd be a little bit more inclined to accept it if the players affected (those that are under 17 this year) had a proper programme of games. Minors in my county are likely to play a maximum of 7 club games and a minimum of 5. That's just not good enough.

CmonAymonow (Laois) - Posts:127 - 13/05/2016 14:32:05 1854686

Anyone ever think this could be the problem as to why Leinster counties are falling behind. I moved to Meath and was amazed by how little their juvenile teams play.

How do you expect to produce good adults if kids are playing enough.

It's not the way it is in Ulster. I played about 15 games a year on average at my age group every year, getting more like 25 games by stepping up an age group.

Do you think kids in Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone and Mayo are playing 5/6 games a year at their age group.

There's the problem.

Hurling in weaker counties may be a different kettle of fish. As another poster has pointed out reduced sized teams can help that problem.

Juveniles should be provided more games, but for their own well being those should not include Adult football too early.

A poster stated that it should be up to clubs to decide if someone's ready or not. I firmly disagree, in my experience managers are not always particularly concerned with a young players welfare. It is definitely a secondary concern to winning. If this rule were not in place I can guarantee that players not ready for it would be playing adult football.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 14/05/2016 09:58:07    1854818

I know that in my club we started 4 u17s throughout the senior championship last year with at least 2 per game, I think they actually added more hunger to our team with them playing influential roles, we topped the group and just lost out on a county final spot

westmeath2015 (Westmeath) - Posts: 153 - 14/05/2016 10:46:44    1854828

Too much training, not enough games

Huge issue across the whole GAA

manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 14/05/2016 10:50:26    1854830

Whammy, from my own experience I know it is very true. If you starve young players of games they will fill in their time playing other sports, maybe even at adult level. The drudgery of physical training drills, often completely unsuitable for developing teens is far more harmful, physically and mentally, than playing games.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 14/05/2016 11:52:00    1854845

Whammy, from my own experience I know it is very true. If you starve young players of games they will fill in their time playing other sports, maybe even at adult level. The drudgery of physical training drills, often completely unsuitable for developing teens is far more harmful, physically and mentally, than playing games.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:208 - 14/05/2016 11:52:00 1854845

I agree with this post.

I disagree with your previous post where you say that an under 17 wouldn't get targeted playing adult football. I'd love to live in a world where that is true but it's not. There are some absolute dirtbags play our games and if they can get an edge and a young fella gets injured they couldn't care less. There are even bitter twisted fools who'd go out of their way to do a good up and coming player. Their mentality is that if a guy comes onto the pitch it's all fair game. Something needs to be in place to protect these young players and I wouldn't trust club managers so I'm happy for this rule to be in place.

It does seem that in a lot of counties juvenile players aren't catered for with enough games at their. That is terrible. Kids should be playing at their age group pretty much once a week every week from March to September.

That's not going to cause burnout, it's just going to give kids loads of football. They should then only be training once a week. I agree burnout is more about over training than too many matches.

I really like this Celtic challenge hurling getting more young players regular weekly matches. They're only allowed one training session a week.

I'd like in Ulster for them to do a mini version of it at u13 and u15. Get 3 Antrim teams, 2 Derry, 2 Down and then teams from all the other counties. Try to get teams playing 7 or 8 matches.

Something similar in other weak hurling areas would be good. Keep guys in the game.

Sounds like county boards need to get better underage competitions across the country.

To be honest I think u13 should be played 9 a side at club level anyway. Going up to 11 a side at u15 and 13 and 15 a side from u17 up. Get young players getting more touches per game. Getting them learning the game incrementally.

You go to 9 and 11 a side it's easier for teams to field. Big clubs can field more teams and there's just more football for everyone.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 14/05/2016 12:56:01    1854854

There are very few u-17 players that would be good enough to play football for a senior championship team and if they are good enough, they'll almost certainly be on the County Minor team. So in this case the rule that prevents county minors playing adult football for their club is sufficient in most cases to stop this burnout. This really does only affect rural clubs competing at lower grades.

What the Gaa really should do is change the age groups around completely and go with u-13, u-15 and u-17. If they don't and change the minor grade to u-17 like they are planning, then that'll put a major strain on players in their last year of u-16.

Bosco1937 (Longford) - Posts: 185 - 14/05/2016 13:07:59    1854858

U21 club football/hurling is usually a knockout competition.
How can it be a 'development' grade?
17/18 year old club players need more games, not less. This rule is denying 17 year olds the opportunity to play. They might not all be physically ready for the challenge, but let the clubs and players make that judgement
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts:272 - 13/05/2016 14:01:43 That it is straight knockout(all competitions are knockout) doesnt mean it isnt a development grade. Its age grade sport. Its about progression and development of skills and players long term development in relation to progression to the adult open grade games. This isnt stopping 17 year olds from playing. This ruling should mean they get more games at their own grade and are not over stretched by playing for too many teams.

If adult teams can't field without a 16 year old child then games should be facilitated at 13-a-side.
Rather than flog kids at this age by pressuring them to play on multiple team county boards and clubs need to adapt to this rule and frame competitions that clubs can take part in ie games at 13-a-side if thats what the majority of clubs in a particular area need.
Let the young player mature into an adult, don't drag him into adulthood.
downredhand (Tyrone) - Posts:244 - 13/05/2016 14:27:20 totally agree. If a club cant field without 16 year olds then they should field with less numbers than 15 a side.

Don't think a lot of the rule - it has affected my club big time. However, I'd be a little bit more inclined to accept it if the players affected (those that are under 17 this year) had a proper programme of games. Minors in my county are likely to play a maximum of 7 club games and a minimum of 5. That's just not good enough.
CmonAymonow (Laois) - Posts:127 - 13/05/2016 14:32:05Well you then change structures of under 17 competitions to give players more games. The younger players who are very strong get too much games and are at too much of a risk of burnout. injury and long term harm

Under 21 level is not a development grade in gaelic games (at club level). It is not somewhere you go to after under 21 and before senior/intermediate/junior level. It is a level you play at 2/3 times a year while also playing 'adult grades.
It may be different in other sports. '
bennybunny (Cork) - Posts:3158 - 13/05/2016 14:55:57 That its only played 2/3 times a year means it isnt a development grade. It is aiding progression to adult grade irrespective of players mainly playing some adult grades before playing under 21

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 14/05/2016 13:14:07    1854861

A game every fortnight from April - September should be the minimum requirement for dual clubs. That's at least 12 official games for one sport, 24 for dual sports.

If there aren't enough games within a county due to lack of clubs (hurling) then clubs and counties need to get a regional league going to give players games.

manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 14/05/2016 13:21:06    1854865

"A game every fortnight from April - September should be the minimum requirement for dual clubs. That's at least 12 official games for one sport, 24 for dual sports.

If there aren't enough games within a county due to lack of clubs (hurling) then clubs and counties need to get a regional league going to give players games."

Agreed. Is that not happening in Westmeath at present at underage? There's too many championship matches at adult level (something like 10 games each in hurling before the knockout stages).

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 14/05/2016 13:55:07    1854870

Lads - was this rule ever passed?

I see that Kerry had a 16 year old girl playing inter county at the weekend? Is it different rules for the ladies?

liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 199 - 14/08/2017 11:59:37    2033157

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 14/08/2017 12:05:04    2033167

What about the hurling Whammo :-) Or is it only in Antrim that they overlook a team playing someone too young in Championship and let said team progress?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/08/2017 12:27:12    2033193

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 14/08/2017 13:26:26    2033227

Yeah in the Intermediate Preliminary round apparently.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/08/2017 14:07:02    2033260

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1906 - 14/08/2017 20:46:37    2033431

This rule is just another example of the GAA moving away from its roots. This is about not burning out young talent in the stronger counties at the expense of the journey men players that make up the majority of gaa players.

They dress it up as player welfare .

ulsterrules (Donegal) - Posts: 260 - 14/08/2017 21:32:00    2033442

But underage physicality has improve massively in recent times. Most clubs that I know off have had s&c from u14 through to minor. I know it's different going from minor to senior football but i feel the gap has been narrowed in recent years.
In my club there is 5/6 lads on their last year minor pushing for starting spots on the senior team. And one of them is starting midfield. So I wouldn't say the difference of physicality is as big of a problem as many people make it out to be.

Ros2017 (Roscommon) - Posts: 20 - 14/08/2017 23:42:10    2033480