Carried them where exactly after 01? Bernard Brogan is way ahead of Joyce.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 18/05/2016 11:32:53    1855924

Johnnobull, Joyce was a class act, an incredible natural talent. Much like Michael Meehan
But, Brogan is a diff level for me. Brogan for me is up there with Stevie O'Neill as the next best after the 2 boys of the last 15 years.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 18/05/2016 11:45:21    1855932

Carried them above mediocrity. Only for him Galway wouldnt have reached Connacht finals in the noughties.

johnnos bulls (None) - Posts: 527 - 18/05/2016 11:54:27    1855933

I watched him after 01 in Connacht finals and his impact and form was no where near 98 to 01 standards. He had moments of class but never like 01. All about opinions.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 18/05/2016 12:32:32    1855955

Clondalkin, cool the jets
To say Brogan is WAY head of Joyce is rubbish. No one is way ahead of him. Joyce in his 00-04 pomp was as good as any forward playing the game, utter utter class.
Yes I agree Bernard is better, but he is certainly not WAY ahead.
Hyperbole serves no argument well

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 18/05/2016 12:34:33    1855957

It's close but Canavan for me.

Also, with the greatest respect to Mattie Forde who was class, anyone that isn't his Ma or Da that says he was better than Canavan should be derided.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12370 - 18/05/2016 13:23:52    1855996

Whilst Canavan had undoubted skill and ability if you took the amount of chances that he created and / or scored by way of getting the ball around the 21yard line to the right of the goals and going to ground as soon as an opposing player looks at him and popping over the free with his left he would not be in the scoring charts as much as he was and therefor not heralded as much as he was by those how hardly if ever saw him play.

I saw him play many times and he was a hell of a talent. He wouldn't lace Gooch's boots however for honesty and natural ability.

offtheditch (Cavan) - Posts: 171 - 18/05/2016 13:53:51    1856010

Both magnificent footballers but Canavan for me. In the mid nineties it was like Peter Canavan operated on a higher plane than every other footballer in Ireland. No one could touch him. He was also the coolest man under pressure. People have already mentioned the goal and point in 05. But I'll always remember Mugsy looking at him pleadingly to take the winning free kick against Armagh. Peter just casually took it off him and kicked it over the bar - job done.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9774 - 18/05/2016 15:39:54    1856081

Whilst Canavan had undoubted skill and ability if you took the amount of chances that he created and / or scored by way of getting the ball around the 21yard line to the right of the goals and going to ground as soon as an opposing player looks at him and popping over the free with his left he would not be in the scoring charts as much as he was and therefor not heralded as much as he was by those how hardly if ever saw him play.

I saw him play many times and he was a hell of a talent. He wouldn't lace Gooch's boots however for honesty and natural ability.

offtheditch (Cavan) - Posts:84 - 18/05/2016 13:53:51

Not sure about that.Cooper always tried to make the most of any contact he's gotten over the years and Canvan was a hugely skilful player it's just more difficult to look skilful playing on lots of dogfights in Ulster than it is when Kerry play in games which are much looser in general.Cooper was a little silkier than Canavan but Canavan had that bit of grit in him which is the attribute I'd prefer in a player.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 18/05/2016 17:14:25    1856118

Imo Liam Bernard was way ahead from 01 onwards. Brogan has it all Joyce for me couldn't win his own ball like Bernard, Bernard is unreal for winning his own kicked in anyway.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 18/05/2016 17:44:48    1856133

Whilst Canavan had undoubted skill and ability if you took the amount of chances that he created and / or scored by way of getting the ball around the 21yard line to the right of the goals and going to ground as soon as an opposing player looks at him and popping over the free with his left he would not be in the scoring charts as much as he was and therefor not heralded as much as he was by those how hardly if ever saw him play.

I saw him play many times and he was a hell of a talent. He wouldn't lace Gooch's boots however for honesty and natural ability.

offtheditch (Cavan) - Posts:84 - 18/05/2016 13:53:51 1856010

The highlighted bit is enough for me to see you haven't really got a clue what you're blabbering about

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 18/05/2016 17:47:20    1856135

Both geniuses in my book.

Hard to separate.

I've heard people tearing both players down at times in the past and on here too.

I watched Cooper in the 2013 All Ireland Semi Final against Dublin and even though Kerry lost, I still remember thinking, Cooper was beyond good. First half in particular he looked like an utter genius among so many other fine players.

As for Canavan, well, growing up in Donegal in the 1990s, next door to Tyrone, I think I speak for most Donegal Gaelic football fans when I say that he was looked on as an immortal almost in footballing terms! Peter the Great I think they called him in Tyrone and he was well worthy of that name. He was unmarkable in the 90s and had it all. In the 00s he finally got the All Ireland medals he deserved because he wasn't a one-man show at that stage, ably supported by many other excellent players

Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1417 - 18/05/2016 18:12:04    1856142

Well neither Canavan or Gooch were the best ever, in terms of forwards. Canavan would certainly be in the discussion, but probably just behind Matt Connor, Maurice Fitzgerald and a few others. Gooch on the other hand is nowhere near the discussion of the greatest ever, imo. He'd struggle to make it into the top 10 best Kerry forwards ever.

32_4_1 (Meath) - Posts: 4156 - 18/05/2016 18:57:29    1856157

Joyce unable to win his own ball? Think Darren Fay migh disagree with you on that one

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2217 - 18/05/2016 19:39:37    1856168

Gooch disappeared in the big Tyrone and Dublin games. Very talented footballer but lacked the bite and fight to really be called great unlike Caravan who for his size had the heart of a lion.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 19/05/2016 14:43:52    1856409