Canavan in his prime was something else. Just phenomenal. He would destroy teams single handedly on such a regular basis it was hard to believe at times

HandballRef (Donegal) - Posts: 523 - 13/05/2016 12:54:02    1854636

Stephen Cluxton are you mental? He's a smart player, accurate passer of the ball and good at long range shots. Wouldn't go as far as saying hes one of the Greatest ever!

There are a number of players that could fit into this Category. If you were to pick a team of the Naughties it would surely include greats such as Oisin McConville, Gooch, Canavan, Cavanagh, K Donaghy, Kieran McGeeney, Kieran McDonald.

On my own biased opinion Canavan would be better than the gooch. Greatest ever? Not sure

Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 13/05/2016 13:01:23    1854640

Your entitled to your opinion but Stephen Cluxton will go down as the greatest keeper of all time and up there with all the greats.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 13/05/2016 13:19:05    1854649

It must be I'm around a lot longer than some but from what I saw I must take Seam oNeill of Down as the greatest forward ever. Now when I started going to games I saw some players who were exceptional I saw J MC Keever play , Jimmy Whan of Armagh Paddy Doherty( where would he stand with today's greats) of Down
Frank MC Guigan was another while you could pick a few Kerry lads from 1978-1986.
I also know Mattie ford and D Brown were very good , again if both had to be playing with a top team they would have been even better. They never really got a chance to play in big games like the AI semi finals or All Ireland finals.
I know if I had to pick a full forward line from the last 50 years , it would be at 13 The Gooch, at 14 Sean o Neill ( captain of any team I'd pick) and at 15 P Canavan. Think of all the good forwards I would be leaving out. Matt Connor P Joyce M Sheehy Steven o Neill B Brogan plus M Forde D Brown and indeed M Murphy
Also when making comparisions as the Gooch and P Canavan play in the full forward line , we should be comparing them to other players who played in the full forward line. Other players mentioned here played midfield/ centre half forward or in Paudi 's case a defender

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 13/05/2016 13:22:29    1854651

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts:1060 - 13/05/2016 13:22:29

Excellent last post , greatest allways tag falls to a forward

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 13/05/2016 13:45:17    1854660

See find the space, your displaying phenomenal ignorance here, which to be fair to you is not limited to yourself.
To typical GAA fanboys, to be a truly great player u have to be a forward, or at the very least an outfielder.
Look at all the names being bandied about for greatest ever player.
Cooper, Fitzgerald, Joyce, Canavan, Connor. One lad even said Donaghy :)

None of those players would have been held in the same regard had they played for teams with awful defences or keepers.
I go on the premise that all positions are equal, No point your 14 scoring 1-9 if your keeper is letting in 4 goals at the other end!
Stephen Cluxton since 2001 has changed goalkeeping in the game forever. At IC level and Club level, keepers the country over are now dictating games with kick out strategies and game management. He has taken a position once seen as the preserve of madmen, fattys and least skilled, and turned it into the equivalent of an out half or a quarter back, running games.

I always maintain and stand by the claim that history will remember him as the greatest keeper to ever play the game and the man who literally changed the way Gaelic Football was played. He is a phenomenal footballer and more than worthy of a mention beside the much lauded forwards and MF's of his and any other era.

#cluxtonlegend1

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 13/05/2016 13:51:12    1854664

Two great players, alongside a few others mentioned on this thread. Its worth pointing out that Canavan played most of his best football in an era when forwards generally had more room - they were tightly marked and sometimes double-marked but the game was much more open in the 90's than during much of Coopers career. In my view that is why there are so many forwards to choose from between 1995-2005, and so few between 2006-2016. The fact Cooper still managed to stand-out as a class act shows what a talent he was at his peak. Its ironic that Tyrone should produce one of the all-time great small forwards, and be at the forefront of tactics which means that players like Canavan don't really have a place in the game just now.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 13/05/2016 14:40:43    1854690

Canavan for me - class act.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 13/05/2016 15:08:33    1854701

Cannavan was a good footballer, not a great, Gooch was / is a great, along with the likes graham god geraghty, (2 all stars one as back one as forward) Trevor Giles, p Joyce, Mattie forde, and perhaps the greatest of them all matt Connor. There is a difference between good and great, Gooch falls into the great category, canavan into the good and perhaps very top of the good.
Here think about this as a dream team forward line.
10 , graham geraghty
11 Trevor Giles
12 p joyce
13 Gooch
14 matt Connor
15 mattie forde

Now no matter what blanket you put in front of them they'd rip it apart.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/05/2016 15:17:24    1854703

Its ironic that Tyrone should produce one of the all-time great small forwards, and be at the forefront of tactics which means that players like Canavan don't really have a place in the game just now.

Soma (UK) - Posts:1419 - 13/05/2016 14:40:43 185

Total cxxp.... Tyrone developed a system of play, maybe due to the type of players available, where pace and skill is now more important than height and brute strength - see the type of midfield/full forwards Tyrone have played over the last 15 years. If this is seen as being to the determent of the game it's a very perverse way of looking at things. We all played on and watched teams were the biggest lads were lined out at 3, 8, 9 & 14 should the skill set be there or not. Is it a bad thing where the emphasis is now put on a players all round skills?

As for players like Canavan not having a place in the game now, at least The Master was being tongue in cheek when he made his comment about Canavn pre 2003. Genius will always have it's place. Is there a shortage of players of Canavans ilk now playing the game? Possibly so but that says more about what Peter brought to the game than the players playing now. Men like Canavan and Gooch don't come along that often and should be enjoyed when they are there.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 13/05/2016 15:22:38    1854706

A problem with this type of thread is that some posters demean the abilities and achievements of outstanding footballers in order to put ford their own particular star and that is sad.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 13/05/2016 15:55:39    1854719

A problem with this type of thread is that some posters demean the abilities and achievements of outstanding footballers in order to put ford their own particular star and that is sad.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts:207 - 13/05/2016 15:55:39


Completely agree , reading back your so right , instead of extoling the virtues of someone it seems some find it easier to slate someone

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 13/05/2016 16:41:56    1854732

Cannavan was a good footballer, not a great, Gooch was / is a great, along with the likes graham god geraghty, (2 all stars one as back one as forward) Trevor Giles, p Joyce, Mattie forde, and perhaps the greatest of them all matt Connor. There is a difference between good and great, Gooch falls into the great category, canavan into the good and perhaps very top of the good.
Here think about this as a dream team forward line.
10 , graham geraghty
11 Trevor Giles
12 p joyce
13 Gooch
14 matt Connor
15 mattie forde

Now no matter what blanket you put in front of them they'd rip it apart.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts:8742 - 13/05/2016 15:17:24 1

Sorry man but there is no way Canavan falls into the good but not great category.

I'd only have 2 of the 6 you name there that you could make any argument were better than him (Connor and Cooper and that would be up for debate) and the other 4 certainly were not better than him although they were great footballers in their own right there is no way you could make a convincing argment that they were better than Canavan.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 13/05/2016 17:19:43    1854742

Benched the importance placed on gym work and the size of modern players suggests strength is more important than ever. Canavan used to get out of tight spots with great soloing skills and sidesteps, now the emphasis is on being physically strong enough to retain and recycle possession when tackled by 3 opponents. Look at a player like James O'Donohoe who is a similar style player to Canavan but now has to move out the field to get away from the suffocating full forward line.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 13/05/2016 18:04:41    1854754

Royaldunne has a problem with Ulster teams and players and always has done. He simply refuses to acknowledge Canavan's greatness because of geography. To put Giles, Geraghty and Joyce (all superb for footballers )above Canavan is ridiculous as some posters have pointed out. The only player I would put in Canavan's category is Maurice Fitzgerald.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 13/05/2016 20:03:45    1854780

Great Canavan point here (2:10 into the video), scores an unbelievable point against Galway with his first kick of the ball in a competitive match in nine months:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJoC6cBE7U0

People go on about his mid-nineties phase but he was brilliant in the twilight of his career too.

Anyway they're both brilliant players. Choosing seems silly.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 13/05/2016 20:05:43    1854781

Ulsterman Fitzgerald had unbelievable skill but he never had the speed to be considered with the top 2 , like when we were playing Tyrone or Kerry in the 00's I'd be in bits all week thinking what Gooch and Canavan will do to our defence I never had that with Fitzgerald he just lacked a yard to be in the top 2 bracket imo.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 13/05/2016 20:23:49    1854785

I agree with people on here about forwards having more room back 15/20 years ago
Back then it was full back line--- 2-3-4 with 13-14-15 opposing and most of the time all six players stayed around the 14--21 yard line. Different today with an example being --- Micheal Murphy back in his own full back line.
So indeed forwards have it harder today and good one are double marked and given lots of heavy hits
Again an example -- the Gooch v Tyrone last year.
But that is the way all teams set out today and especially the top teams ( and Donegal included) as the make sure star players , forwards especially don't get to play their normal game.
Then again backs are fast today comparing to years ago I don't think Ryan mcHugh would be back defending if he was playing 30 or40 year ago.
To me I have saw some wonderful players over the last 50 years , to choose who was the best would be near enough impossible. Dublin had great players in the seventies / eighties as did Kerry Again Meath had some brilliant footballers ( anybody remember the Red Collier, one of the first attacking half backs)-so had cork both in the 70's and80's. Micky Kerins of Sligo plus another star man who has not got a mention yet - the late Dermot Early. (RIP)
I just remember Down winning the Sam in 1960 for he first time , also the first team to bring the cup over the border and I remember the early sixties at home and whenever Donegal played Down everybody wanted to see DownNow they had some team at the time.
As regards choosing a forward over a back its that special type of player like The Gooch or P Canavan who do the damage , one little piece of magic to swing the game And forwards MUST HIT THE TARGET, a back is not under the same pressure.If Mayo had P C or the Gooch over the last five years would they not have won an All Ireland

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 13/05/2016 20:43:50    1854790

I would agree Canavan and Cooper are 2 of the best forwards and the best forwards since the mid 1990's. Between the 2 of them Canavan is tops for me, he was a lethal blend of speed/ agility, football skills and score taking in the 1990's and brought his best to the table when most needed. He past his his peak when he collected his Celtic Crosses. Trevor Giles, twice footballer of the year, while not as good as Cooper or Canavan was a superior player most other forwards in this time, he but brought all other Meath forwards into the game and made the Meath attack of that time very dangerous. Maurice Fitzgerald had the best football skills of any player I have seen but was not aggressive enough for a big man and had not the pace of a Cooper/ Canavan. Mattie Ford was another brilliant forward, could have been up there with Canavan/ Cooper had he played with a better team. Other very good forwards I can think off the top of my head at this time were Graham Geraghty, Stephen O'Neill, Declan O'Sullivan, Stephen McDonnell, Alan Brogan, Michael Murphy and Dermott Connolly.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 14/05/2016 11:50:53    1854844

Completely disagree about Joyce after 01 he did nothing , I'd have Bernard brogan ahead of him all day long.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts:7433 - 11/05/2016 13:41:06

Joyce carried galway for years after that. I would have him ahead of Brogan.

johnnos bulls (None) - Posts: 527 - 18/05/2016 11:27:07    1855918