Hello all, I am trying to start a discussion and get ideas on how to address certain issues in our GAA system in New York. We have some serious problems at present which are threatening to destroy the game in the biggest GAA fraternity outside of the 32 counties.
Most of the problems we have are centered around money and transfers. From my knowledge, at home transfers between clubs are rare and players getting pay to play is even rarer. Acknowledge that expenses are paid to a certain extent but not cash payments. Money has always been offered in the states, small amounts which are meant for help expats get up and running in a foreign country. Flights, accommodation and a job may be offered. All fine. We help each other out. However, in recent years, huge sums of money have been offered to a small number of players to come over from Ireland for a few months. This cash is tax free and to me is completely out of the ethos of the GAA.

In the last 2-3 years, an even bigger problem has occurred. The senior division in NY was always very competitive. Maybe 8-10 quality, evenly matched teams. However, a couple of teams have now got huge financial backing and are poaching all of the good permanent players in NY with the sweetener of cash. This has resulted in established senior teams either folding or dropping down a division. This year there will be 5 senior teams with 1 looking to drop down to intermediate. Another of the 5 is an all American team who have developed youth players over 20 years. They are an admirable team having won intermediate last year but will struggle against the money men in their step up to senior.

Basically I am looking to see if this occurs in other countries/cities and what steps are taken to stop it. On our NY forum, people are putting up suggestions but it seems impossible. I don't want to get into problems with the county board here as that is another issue. But these issues are seemingly being ignored by Croke park also.

I would appreciate any feedback or suggestions.

Go raibh mile maith agaibh

NYCcavanman (USA) - Posts: 204 - 03/03/2016 15:20:58    1830460

Funningly enough it is only a few weeks I heard about the money being on offer in New York for players to transfer.
Players would be mad not to with the amounts being offered especially when they see the silly money being offered to intercounty players coming over for the summer

Leitrim for one, one of the strongest backed counties has folded

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 03/03/2016 17:08:23    1830508

I assume you are taking about certain clubs in NY that are ran like mini Man Cities? Bringing over top players from Ireland for the summer to play for them and do a bit of (ahem) work on the side....a good few Galway players are headed your direction this summer if not landed already.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11550 - 03/03/2016 17:14:22    1830513

yew_tree I am partially referring to the summer players, but they are more than welcome, always have been. we are of course happy to help them with accommodation and find a job, maybe flights. But many players now are demanding huge sums, up to and over 5 figures and they are playing each club off each other.
The bigger issue now is actually transfers between clubs in NY. Guys who live here and are being lured to certain clubs by money. It's different from home where you play for your local club and for the love of the community. Now the good players are transferring for cash and it is very hard to stop. Clubs are folding and dropping down divisions. The senior league/championship is very uncompetitive as a result and this will likely filter down the divisions

NYCcavanman (USA) - Posts: 204 - 03/03/2016 18:05:34    1830535

I do be in NY Now and then through work. Who are funding the NY clubs...I've heard about Leitrim the past few years...would ex pats from that county not be better pumping their financial means into their county back home?

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11550 - 03/03/2016 18:41:34    1830557

That is the future of the club and county game in Ireland if some people have their way

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1903 - 03/03/2016 18:48:29    1830562

Yew_tree You are correct, Leitrim were the big money team for about 10 years and back by a man who owned a lot of bars but got into difficulty a couple of years ago. They folded last year and are back as a junior team so remains to be seen if they pick up where they left off. If so, this will cause huge issues downstream in the lower divisions. Armagh also folded and are now back this year. Cavan got rid of their senior team this year, Kerry are talking of doing the same.

Donegal and Monaghan are the teams controlling things now. Donegal won the Cship last year with a number of county men from Ireland and duly snapped up the top players from other clubs in NY this winter. Monaghan seem to have done similar and Jamie Clarke will be playing for them this summer.

NYCcavanman (USA) - Posts: 204 - 03/03/2016 19:39:27    1830581

Sorry to say NYCavanman but Croke Park will look the other way and whistle down the wind. Why? Just look at Dublin and the GAA. The GAA is now effectively a satellite revolving around Dublin whose interests take No. 1 priority for Croke Park. There is so much money and financial interests involved for both that it has become a mutual admiration back slapping relationship. A few dollars floating about in New York isn't going to get their interest.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9816 - 03/03/2016 19:59:12    1830583

haha ok! worth a try! any decent players in antrim looking to play ball this summer, let me know! will provide a few big macs!

NYCcavanman (USA) - Posts: 204 - 03/03/2016 21:02:13    1830607

Ny Cavanman

Tomsmith here
Delighted to hear this message of anti pay for play come from the home of play for play
This has been going on for along time this transfer thing. . I am on record as stating that this sanction thing is ruining the Gaa.
It is not that many years ago that a few County footballers left Cavan for the USA while Cavan was still in the championship.
I hear that the fellows that are the big sponsors to Us clubs are big Irish american business men who stand to claw back the investment.
What is the position with underage in these clubs ???????????????
You make little mention of the minor championship, most teams I hear have a set of jerseys in the trunk of the car. That is the club.
I say let the GAA in Croke park take on this cancer of pay for play

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 4029 - 03/03/2016 21:12:17    1830611

just interested to know, what is in it for the money men. How do they recoup or profit from this. There is hardly much exposure to generate much revenue for sponsors. If you say that clubs are willing to offer, accomodation, flights, etc. Where does money come from and how does it help the club if they become more successful on the playing field. there are no TV rights. Are gate receipts increasing . What we are talking about here is professionalism for want of a better word. because you are away from home there is no onus on you to play for your "home county club" so you play for who-ever pays you the most as you have no allegiance.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 04/03/2016 13:57:42    1830771

Tomsmith and goldrick, my fellow cavan men, thanks for the interest. Actually I'm not from cavan but involved in the NY club, before people think it is just cavan men complaining about money!! I'll try to answer your questions.
Tom, you are right it has been going on a long time and before the back door, there were probably even more players coming out as players were knocked out in May. Those days flights, accom and a job were offered. I don't think any cash was involved and if so, it was minimal. The sponsors are usually big construction owners or bar owners who have a lot of cash. When you say they stand to claw back the investment, this is not correct. To my knowledge, these lads are throwing around excess cash and it is not tax deductible or anything. They want to be the big man in the bar on a Saturday night. There doesn't seem to be any other advantage to them or NY GAA. And the question regarding gate receipts, actually they are falling away to nothing. Who wants to come to the park to see uncompetitive games when there are 2 teams dominating every game by 20+ points. The interest is dwindling.

The underage scene over here is actually excelling. 2 clubs built state of the art pitches and clubhouses - Shannon Gaels and Rockland. NY GAA don't even own their own pitch!!! There are numerous other clubs doing great work underage. But this is the point. The money is ruining it for them. This year will see the first all American team in the senior division - St Barnabas. They have developed these American born players from u-8 up to senior. And now they practically stand no chance in senior because of the money men in Donegal and Monaghan. My fear is if the American kids see Barnabas getting beat by 20+ points this year, they will walk away from GAA.

NYCcavanman (USA) - Posts: 204 - 04/03/2016 14:36:49    1830788

NYCcavanman
HQ leaves a lot to the overseas units to sort out themselves, you saw at this years congress they cannot even get motions passed that would benefit club players as a result of some people thinking only about themselves. It is up to the GAA clubs in NY to sort it out themselves. If what you say is true then it can only go on for one year before the other clubs at the next Board AGM put an end to it but thats unlikely to happen either. The GAA has been established in NY for over 100 years and its only now through the underage clubs that you mention that things are beginning to change. How powerful a game it could have become in the US if that all started 100 years ago. As for the current setup at the senior level, you reap what you sow, the GAA in NY at the senior level was always about the money and bringing lads over to play, its no wonder that the lads playing with the clubs have no loyalty as in a couple of years time they would probably lose their place to some young lad borough over for the summer. Players will vote with their feet and in a year or two it won't be much fun having just two senior teams.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1952 - 04/03/2016 15:12:18    1830798

You know Ive always wondered why counties like Cavan, Leitrim etc don't tap into their ex pats in the US and seek funding....now maybe they do and I am totally wrong. Kerry are experts at it....Mayo have got funding there also all be it a total f up made of the last trip over.

Instead of complaining about Dublin many rural smaller counties have an advantage over Dublin in this regard...ex-pats. Dublin people would be the least migrated county in Ireland. The amount of people with Donegal, Galway, Mayo. Leitrim, Cavan, Kerry blood etc etc walking around the US is amazing.

In my own counties case there was a study done that estimated that there are approx 8.5 million Americans with Mayo blood in them....now if only we could see if any of those have a good kicking gene to add to our forwards ;)

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11550 - 04/03/2016 15:33:51    1830803

Nothing new about this, no one saw Daragh's documentary on the USA GAA= on TG4 a while back?

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 04/03/2016 15:40:30    1830804

Yew Tree you are 100% correct, the amount of dubs I have met over here compared to small counties like leitrim is next to none. And it is not as if the Connacht counties don't get the chance, they are over 1 in 5 years for the chsip kickoff so I am sure they put in a lot of work trying to get funding for back home.
I was in Cleveland ohio last year and I didn't meet one irish born person, but nearly everyone I met had roots in Achill island. There are signs everywhere 'Achill 4000 miles'. Apparently they all went out in the 40 and 50s in the car boom . no industry there now though.

NYCcavanman (USA) - Posts: 204 - 04/03/2016 15:54:26    1830808

Minor teams in New York are not a new thing. I remember playing minor New York teams nearly 20 years ago and they were not bad either. The problem has always been that when you neglect young home grown players and concentrate on the steel bird, it is always a highly risky strategy. Living in London and playing here for over 20 years, I can tell you that players from Ireland will always come and go, however for the long term sustainability of a club, an underage set up is vital. Even if you do not produce the next Gooch or Brogan, you will still have a back bone of lads to start with, who are also more likely to stay on to train the next generation when they retire and give something back to a club. That is how you survive as a club oversee's. When you do not have a ready made GAA community that lads in Ireland take for granted, you need to work that bit harder to build a community among your own mainstays rather than looking for the next 747 to provide players to keep you going.
If you have the foundations of a thriving club already, the lads that do come over looking for a club are more likely to choose the one that is well organised and has a base, which they can tap into to socialize and build contacts. If all they are interested in is money, you may as well forget about them, because eventually whether it is when the money has dried up or before, they will let you down.

BaldyBadger (Cork) - Posts: 313 - 04/03/2016 16:20:50    1830817

I was in Cleveland ohio last year and I didn't meet one irish born person, but nearly everyone I met had roots in Achill island. There are signs everywhere 'Achill 4000 miles'. Apparently they all went out in the 40 and 50s in the car boom . no industry there now though.

NYCcavanman (USA)

Yeah there is a large Mayo community in Cleveland...I met a few in NY at our last game there. It's also great to see the amount of American Kids queuing up to get their pic's with Sam, they all knew the Mayo players and were scrambling to see them....I think a greater effort should be made to get these kids to continue to play GAA instead of getting a quick fix GAA star over for the summer....while there is nothing wrong with that.

The amount of Irish people from Ireland moving to and working in the US is probably at an all time low due to visa restrictions....Australia being the new America for this generation.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11550 - 04/03/2016 16:35:41    1830823

NYCcavanman
You summed it up perfectly yourself when you said the problem is the men that have made a fortune over here start throwing the money into clubs to be the big man at the bar. 100% correct. These lads are spending somewhere between 50K - 100K a year to fund the club. It's outrageous money to most people but just a hobby for someone worth millions I suppose.

Incredibly hard to fix it, the only answer I can think of would be to have two separate organizations. 1 as it stands where clubs get players over & can spend as much as they want and another traditional championship with teams with 100% american or permanent residents of the states playing. It would let the millionaires keep their hobby and also allow normal traditional clubs to be competitive. Also would encourage all clubs to work on their underage teams which would be great.

I do realize this will never happen because the county board could not care less & it would be a strain to a lot of clubs without having their 4 or 5 J1'ers playing during the summer.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 04/03/2016 19:01:59    1830860

NYCavanman is peeved here but Cavan and only Cavan made that choice to drop something Kerry are also considering. The problems he describes are real and true but both these clubs also spent thousands over the years. Kerry's money was fairly well spent and they picked up a few championships along the way. Cavan on the other hand not so lucky so they cant keep the spending any longer because the Monaghan's and Donegal's are way better off financially. Football in senior division is in a very sad state at the moment and will surely hit rock bottom before it improves.
Underage is going strong but needless to say that these teams will never be able to compete at senior with the current systems. Anyway for teams in Ireland ,look to loose a few players to the mighty dollar.

Crossgaa (Mayo) - Posts: 553 - 05/03/2016 16:35:03    1830978