That is not entirely true Offside, the medical profession say many hip operations they are performing on teenagers and gaelic players in their early 20s are simply due to wear and tear, which is due to players having too big a workload.

Yeah but whats not to say their bones weren't as strong in the first place and therefore were more susceptible to wear on their hip/bones or whatever? Who is to say that had the person who was training/playing 7 days a week and were injured after a couple of years of this wouldn't have had the same injury a couple of years later if they had been playing/training half as much - same wear and tear just over a longer period. How can many people manage the demands of 7 days a week and not ever get any serious or related injuries. My point I suppose is that its too easy to point to injuries etc people got and say it is down to burnout.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 01/03/2016 13:06:01    1829732

Burnout is an issue for most sports, don't see why GAA wouldn't be the same.

About a year and a half ago a survey of intercounty minor players found that roughly a quarter of them were training 7 days a week and another quarter were training 6 days a week. 3/5's of them had played in games while injured and 2/5's reported suffering from chronic fatigue. A third of them also said they felt they were being asked to train to often.

I'd be surprised if things have changed much since then.

Burnout is a very real issue, anybody who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 01/03/2016 13:35:07    1829743

Colm O'Neill, Stephen O'Neill

are you serious ?

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5520 - 01/03/2016 15:37:04    1829792

Colm O'Neill, Stephen O'Neill

are you serious ?

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts:3986 - 01/03/2016 15:37:04 18297

I am

Tell me about this line from the Cavan GAA Wikipedia entry link. Are they serious?

Current football squad[edit]
Disbanded until the new season starts. If you want to try out, BJ auditions commence on the 20th September 2015 - Imperial Hotel Cavan

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 01/03/2016 16:00:21    1829805

Stephen O'Neill - 3 Senior All-Irelands, 2 U-21 All Irelands, 1 Minor All Ireland, 5 Ulsters, 2 National Leagues, 1 Footballer of the Year, 3 times All Star. Not bad for a lad with 'player burn-out'. I agree with your sentiments but you've picked the wrong example here I think.

Harpo (Tyrone) - Posts: 50 - 01/03/2016 16:26:43    1829825

Stephen O'Neill - 3 Senior All-Irelands, 2 U-21 All Irelands, 1 Minor All Ireland, 5 Ulsters, 2 National Leagues, 1 Footballer of the Year, 3 times All Star. Not bad for a lad with 'player burn-out'. I agree with your sentiments but you've picked the wrong example here I think.

Harpo (Tyrone) - Posts:48 - 01/03/2016 16:26:43 182

Fair enough.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 01/03/2016 16:51:00    1829835

About a year and a half ago a survey of intercounty minor players found that roughly a quarter of them were training 7 days a week and another quarter were training 6 days a week.

What about the mother of 3 young children who wakes up at 6 in the morning to go training 6-7 days a week, goes to work for 8 hours and goes home and does another day's work running the family and home......they are doing it to make them feel a tiny bit better for themselves. County players get treated like royalty with any gear, physios, doctors, messurs etc etc round the clock and play in front of 80000 people to win national honours. If players are finding it tough they don't have to be there!!!!! It's there choice. Drop out off the county squad and play club. Simple as.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2093 - 01/03/2016 18:36:40    1829870

What exactly is player burn out? is it mental and physical exhaustion from over-playing and training? - I would think it is an obvious no-brainer and maybe some could familiarise themselves with what it is an old Hoganstand article:
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=224121

It is not quite an issue with the adult Inter-county game as much as as it is with say from the crucial ages of 16 to 21 - where all the stars of the future are and won't be if you don't look after them. The game has to be sensible with demands on these young players. They simply will not develop because they will have left the game by the time they are 21, or cripples or mental and physical wrecks.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 01/03/2016 19:00:04    1829877

What about the mother of 3 young children who wakes up at 6 in the morning to go training 6-7 days a week, goes to work for 8 hours and goes home and does another day's work running the family and home......they are doing it to make them feel a tiny bit better for themselves. County players get treated like royalty with any gear, physios, doctors, messurs etc etc round the clock and play in front of 80000 people to win national honours. If players are finding it tough they don't have to be there!!!!! It's there choice. Drop out off the county squad and play club. Simple as.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts:73 - 01/03/2016

Well in the same survey 4/5's of players said they felt under pressure to give up either hurling or football to focus on one sport. Nobody should feel pressured into giving up a hobby, least of all a kid. Minor players shouldn't be asked to train 7 days a week, it's as simple as that.

In your scenario who forced the mother to have 3 kids? Who forces her to work or go training herself? If she doesn't like it she doesn't have to do it right? That's just me applying the same logic you are.

What exactly is player burn out? is it mental and physical exhaustion from over-playing and training? - I would think it is an obvious no-brainer and maybe some could familiarise themselves with what it is an old Hoganstand article:
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=224121

It is not quite an issue with the adult Inter-county game as much as as it is with say from the crucial ages of 16 to 21 - where all the stars of the future are and won't be if you don't look after them. The game has to be sensible with demands on these young players. They simply will not develop because they will have left the game by the time they are 21, or cripples or mental and physical wrecks.

arock (Dublin) - Posts:2865 - 01/03/2016

It's definitely mental and physical arock, don't think enough focus is put on the mental side of things myself, although in a lot of cases I've seen it's not necessarily the fault of the coach or manager really, it's more just a lack of awareness in general.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 01/03/2016 19:30:26    1829893

Well whether or not we argue about semantic issues or not, people like Niall Moyna, Mike McGurn, Brian Cody, Richie Hogan, Bernard Brogan have all spoken about how GAA teams prepare for matches, how much they wait between matches and gluts of matches at certain times and no matches other times..these are people at the top of the sport and experts in their field. Argue about terms like burnout and pretend that the number of cruciate ligament injuries that GAA players get is proportional to other sports and the number of players under 21 in our sports needing hip replacements is similar in other sports.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 01/03/2016 19:53:18    1829909

If players are finding it tough they don't have to be there!!!!! It's there choice. Drop out off the county squad and play club. Simple as.


Or we could as an association decide that we care about player welfare and we can allow as many to enjoy our games at a top level if they are capable without them having to worry impacting their long term health or professional well being.

I know which one I'd rather.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4516 - 01/03/2016 19:54:49    1829910

Well in the same survey 4/5's of players said they felt under pressure to give up either hurling or football to focus on one sport. Nobody should feel pressured into giving up a hobby, least of all a kid. Minor players shouldn't be asked to train 7 days a week, it's as simple as that.

In your scenario who forced the mother to have 3 kids? Who forces her to work or go training herself? If she doesn't like it she doesn't have to do it right? That's just me applying the same logic you are.

Are you comparing playing sport with rising a family or working to pay the bills? My point is that there are people out there who have it a lot tougher than a GAA player. You don't have to give up a hobby of GAA....if you feeling burnt out play reserve where it isn't as tough or play a different sport. Or become a coach or referee. There are options.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2093 - 01/03/2016 20:50:45    1829932

cripples or mental and physical wrecks.

Steady on there lad.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2093 - 01/03/2016 20:53:52    1829934

Are you comparing playing sport with rising a family or working to pay the bills? My point is that there are people out there who have it a lot tougher than a GAA player. You don't have to give up a hobby of GAA....if you feeling burnt out play reserve where it isn't as tough or play a different sport. Or become a coach or referee. There are options.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts:74 - 01/03/2016

You're the one who introduced the family and working comparison. I just applied your own logic to it.

The GAA shouldn't be a like it or lump it organisation. There's plenty of proposals being introduced to facilitate change, the problem is that very few of them seem to be looking at the biggest issues that influence player welfare and the issue of burnout.

There's people out there who have it tougher than a GAA player, there's plenty out there who have it easier. Those people aren't really the GAA's concern though are they?

Delegates sitting around proposing changes;

"Underage players have it hard, trying to balance minor and senior club, minor intercounty and the leaving cert, that's plenty of work and stress for a young lad"

"Ah yeah but sure plenty of people have it worse, may as well leave it as it is"

Talk about burying your head...

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 01/03/2016 21:01:46    1829938

players have it hard, trying to balance minor and senior club, minor intercounty and the leaving cert, that's plenty of work and stress for a young lad"

You are talking about the MINORITY........how many minor players at you're club start senior games? How many are on the county minor team? The MAJORITY of minor or u-16 players train twice a week and play 1 game a week for a few months in the year. I don't think that is too much. Do you? If anything it is healthy and productive. I think people are going overboard with the whole player burn out.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 2093 - 01/03/2016 21:32:53    1829957

I'm sitting here rolling my eyes at some of these comments. Player burnout is a MASSIVE issue. If you are suffering from fatigue, are you guaranteed to get an injury??? Of course not...but are you more likely???? Eh...yes!!! So much research to back this up. Bottom line is that young players have way too much demands placed on them!

breakingball22 (Louth) - Posts: 419 - 01/03/2016 21:54:39    1829968

You are talking about the MINORITY........how many minor players at you're club start senior games? How many are on the county minor team? The MAJORITY of minor or u-16 players train twice a week and play 1 game a week for a few months in the year. I don't think that is too much. Do you? If anything it is healthy and productive. I think people are going overboard with the whole player burn out.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts:77 - 01/03/2016

And the minority of players play intercounty, yet every club championship is scheduled to facilitate them.

Plenty of other sports have problems with burnout among young players, why would the GAA be any different?

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 01/03/2016 21:58:52    1829970

Sometimes people have a simplistic way of looking at things.

A player can suffer from burnout without ever picking up an injury. Likewise the chain of thought sure they dont have to do it! That again is not exactly an answer.

Players are mostly their own worst enemies. There are very few players who wont play and wont train when asked and therein lies the problem. There is always another player to take your place. There is always a coach and manager who is only concerned with their own little patch and what a player can do to help them. Pressure is a terrible thing, pressure to make that team, not to let down that manager, not to let down your club, not to let down your school, not to let down your county. Throw on top of that pressure of probably the most important exams of your life in leaving cert and college and the general pressure of life itself at that age.

A release on that sort of pressure could be something as a night out with the lads for example, now players dont even have that release in the most part. Its a different world to what i and many others grew up in. Take a player making a mistake in a game, engaging in foul play or something. Its all over the internet on places like here for example with various levels of criticism, twitter is awash with abuse, facebook etc etc, theres nowhere to hide. And thats even for the ordinary club player to a degree. I know when i was playing the only thing i dreaded if something had gone wrong was the slagging i would get if the local player mentioned it in their match report.

Burnout is a huge issue where the players really need to be protected from themselves but as long as people focus on just the physical state of players and on the belief of "sure they dont have to do it" it wont be addressed.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1488 - 02/03/2016 08:26:51    1829977

Great post tearintom, hard to disagree with any of that.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3691 - 02/03/2016 09:22:18    1829983

For me player burn out can be physical, mental or both. It's not always the players choice to play and train with so many teams but pressure will be put on young lads and if they say they're injured or need a break a lot of people will say " who do they think they are" etc, there's still an attitude with in the gaa that more is better and " sure your a young lad you'll be grand". Playing county is a huge honor for young lads and sometimes I think clubs forget that the majority of these young lads won't play county senior and will be available to clubs for the next 10/15 years. Equally I've seen county set ups not consider the clubs needs. Everyone benefits in the long run if the approach is more player centered, less injuries and less likelihood of lads giving up the gaa because they can't please everyone and playing a less demanding sport for fun. just my opinion

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 02/03/2016 10:25:11    1830008