GAA Discussion Paper: Duffy aims axe at U21FC

The Discussion Paper on Overtraining and Burnout, and fixturesParaic Duffy has recommended discontinuing the U21 football championship in a bid to end player burnout.

If the Monaghan man's bold new proposals are rubber-stamped, the minor intercounty grade will also be changed from U18 to U17.

The director general of the GAA launched a discussion paper on Player Overtraining and Burnout and the GAA Fixtures Calendar at Croke Park this morning, listing a number of proposals that could ease the increasing pressure on intercounty players at the younger end of the scale.

The two main concerns being addressed are the pressure being placed on players between the ages of 17 and 21 "who are being asked to train too much, to play too many matches for too many teams and are afforded too little time for rest and recovery" and the absence of a "fair, evenly-distributed and planned schedule of club matches throughout the year due to the scheduling of inter-county fixtures".

The full list of proposals - which would be introduced in 2017 and 2018 - is as follows:

1. Re-grade the inter-county minor grade from U18 to U17.

2. Play the new minor championships alongside the senior championships as is currently the case.

3. Discontinue the U21 football inter-county championship.

4. Conclude the All-Ireland U21 hurling inter-county championship before the senior final.

5. Increase the number of national league weekends, doubling up football and hurling fixtures.

6. Discontinue the AFL Division 1 semi-finals.

7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.

8. Bring forward the senior All-Irelands by two weeks with the hurling final on the second Sunday of August and the football final played on the first Sunday in September.

9. Play extra time at the end of all drawn championship matches.

10. Discontinue the All-Ireland inter-county junior football and intermediate hurling championships.

11. Introduce a calendar-year fixtures schedule.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 03/11/2015 13:31:39    1804014

I hope to god they don't I love the 21 championship.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 03/11/2015 14:14:04    1804037

This was posted as a new thread but as the topic is the same it has been incorporated here.

tirawleybaron

Mayo


Removal of U21 football

I have to say that this suggestion by Padraic Duffy is the worst idea I have ever heard. Granted there are a few top class players in every county who have to play U21 club and county as well as senior club and county. He seems to have have forgotten that their is a huge drop off rate at Club level as player leave minor and move into U21.
Q. Why do they leave?
A. They start work or college and haven't the time to train (or don't want to) to make the jump from minor to adult teams.
How do we fix the above problem?
Abolishing U21 is not the answer.
THe GAA is constantly trying to make solutions to guard the elite players without caring about overall participation levels. If U21 football was confined to lads over 18 and U21 who don't play county or play for an adult team we would be able to give game time to lads who are losing interest for a few years. By the time they get over the initial drinking burst in College (or when they start work) they will not have left the game completely. Some clubs wont be able to field a team like that but none have tried. My club abolished its junior team because we didn't take the junior football seriously, they then lost a load of lads to soccer and the intermediate team suffered because of it. As for intercounty - no one should be playing both U21 and Senior or minor and U21. Period

Administrator (None) - Posts: 2275 - 03/11/2015 14:14:49    1804038

This was posted as a new thread but as the topic is the same it has been incorporated here.

Bald Eagle

03/11/2015

GAA Discussion Paper

Taken from Hoganstand main page - The full list of proposals - which would be introduced in 2017 and 2018 - is as follows: 1. Re-grade the inter-county minor grade from U18 to U17. 2. Play the new minor championships alongside the senior championships as is currently the case. 3. Discontinue the U21 football inter-county championship. 4. Conclude the All-Ireland U21 hurling inter-county championship before the senior final. 5. Increase the number of national league weekends, doubling up football and hurling fixtures. 6. Discontinue the AFL Division 1 semi-finals. 7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games. 8. Bring forward the senior All-Irelands by two weeks with the hurling final on the second Sunday of August and the football final played on the first Sunday in September. 9. Play extra time at the end of all drawn championship matches. 10. Discontinue the All-Ireland inter-county junior football and intermediate hurling championships. 11. Introduce a calendar-year fixtures schedule. Interesting reading and possibly very divisive, what are your thoughts on this?

Administrator (None) - Posts: 2275 - 03/11/2015 14:19:20    1804042

Boooo! Mine should be the title post!! Damn you Jimbo!

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 03/11/2015 14:30:42    1804045

under 21 the best football spectacle going. He should have introduced rule that only a club member can be a manager. Biggest cancer going is paid club managers. They drain the association of so much money and are seldom worth the big bucks. Imo they also the ruination of the dual player as they have so many training sessions to clock up the money they leave players with no time for anything else and only result in overtraining the class from a player with all their systems etc.

camangomor (Monaghan) - Posts: 53 - 03/11/2015 14:33:54    1804051

Holy ****.. great minds Bald Eagle wha?

Great to see you posting again

Top man

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 03/11/2015 14:41:48    1804054

I can't see the logic for scrapping the U21 football, and retaining the U21 hurling? Surely the potential for burnout is the same for both groups of players?
The u21 football championship is keenly contested in all provinces, and actually gives "weaker" or developing counties a decent chance of success. It has been very beneficial for the likes of Limerick and Tipp in the past decade, for example.

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 03/11/2015 14:48:31    1804058

some ridiculous requests from duffy in that list.
dont see the point in first moving minor to under17 and then getting rid of under21
you could have players finished minor at 16 and 17
and then going 3 or 4 years before they can break into a senior set up in both club and county
which would only increase the drop off rate, as they would soon get sick of training to never get a game.
then he plans to increase the national league weekends and decrease the championship weekends
they already blatently put no effort into promoting the league
so why drag it out further and decrease the championship which gives them much more of a shop window to promote.
I like his idea that players not on a match day 26 at inter county should be available for their club.
He then wants t play extra time in all drawn championship matches which is bizarre,
firstly its shooting themselves in the foot financialy.
Take the three years running the all ireland hurling final went to a replay and how much promotion and financial
gain it brought the gaa and local area.
then the football semi final had two replays the last two years which brought a huge financial windfill to limerick
and the biggest week of promotion the gaa had all year this year when the dublin mayo semi final
went to a replay, you couldnt turn on a radio or open a newspaper without seeing wall to wall about the replay
it firstly sold out in record time
which in turn provided the GAA with a massive promotional tool
to big up their games for this year in the fact that they had almost a quarter of a million people
attend three games inside a week

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 03/11/2015 15:17:10    1804071

typical. . . .the only thing we have a chance of winning. . . .

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3633 - 03/11/2015 15:20:14    1804074

Ah, is this a case of putting out a document for the sake of it.

u17 - I know from our club minor the last 2 years only 2-3 lads are now doing the leaving at that age group due to transition year. Not an issue imo
u21 - got to keep it as Tyrawley says clubs will be the biggest losers here, and the social footballer, the lad not good enough yet for the club senior team.

Good idea - the all irelands earlier, getting rid of the co junior and intermediates

What about this extra weekends of national league. Bad idea

Also no mention of the Sigerson and Fitzgibbon. Why not before Christmas the greatest strain on young footballers imo

Good idea is the national fixture list but since CP have been unable to take over the provincial councils how do they expect the co bds to do same with local interests and co managers.

Ideas for the elite of the elite of football imo so a very disappointing proposal

overinthewest (Sligo) - Posts: 119 - 03/11/2015 15:38:32    1804089

Can't believe some of these suggestions. And they coming from the director general!!!!!

Molaise (Fermanagh) - Posts: 96 - 03/11/2015 15:44:43    1804094

Here's my views on it all -

The full list of proposals - which would be introduced in 2017 and 2018 - is as follows:

1. Re-grade the inter-county minor grade from U18 to U17.

No need to, I think U-18 works fine, what is the point in this exactly? Surely this would see more players on 2 or more squads (U-16 players, club and County development, some would be good enough to be on the new U-17). Now if you were to change the whole grading system to odd years, ie U11, U13, U15, U17 and U19 then i feel that this would be a more sensible remedy, that way you are getting more youth players playing underage for a year longer than the U18 limit at club level. I feel the jump from U18 to senior is too much for many young players and was one of the reasons i didn't carry on playing for long after i came out of minor.

2. Play the new minor championships alongside the senior championships as is currently the case.

Nothing to see here.

3. Discontinue the U21 football inter-county championship.

First question is why? It seems to have a place in the calendar just to make sure that it is played, this was only a matter of time in my view before the GAA planned to scrap this as i feel that they see it as merely a fixture clogger. Perhaps re-grade it to U20 and limit it to players not involved with their county senior panels?

4. Conclude the All-Ireland U21 hurling inter-county championship before the senior final.

Main question is why keep this and not the football championship? I feel that not as many counties play in the main U21 hurling championship they don't see it as as bog a fixture clogger, however the main reason it like they expected uproar that they current administration were trying to kill hurling

5. Increase the number of national league weekends, doubling up football and hurling fixtures.

Take away a football format, then double up on football and hurling weekends? What about the dual player? Do they care about this anymore? Stupid idea

6. Discontinue the AFL Division 1 semi-finals.

Don't see the point in this, teams need something to aim for to make the league interesting. Once they have avoided relegation there should be the target of getting into the top 4 and the semis of the league. Stupid idea in my book!

7. Establish in rule that players, who are not in the match-day panel of 26 must be available to their clubs on the weekends of intercounty games.

Good idea

8. Bring forward the senior All-Irelands by two weeks with the hurling final on the second Sunday of August and the football final played on the first Sunday in September.

Good idea too, this could easily be done by doubling up fixture dates. My case in point is the Ulster Councils stupid idea of playing games on consecutive weekends, surely they should play 2 q/fs on one day/weekend and then the next 2 the following day/weekend, semis on the same weekend. Maybe it's just me but i thin that the stretching of the Ulster championship in particular is stupid.

9. Play extra time at the end of all drawn championship matches.

I think it's a decent idea, perhaps not one i'd vote for at congress though but i can see the merits of it. There are bigger problems to the GAAs dragged out county fixture calendar than replays.

10. Discontinue the All-Ireland inter-county junior football and intermediate hurling championships.

Absolutely brainless idea!

11. Introduce a calendar-year fixtures schedule.

Isn't that the plan? I would like to see it, however what good does it do to the cream of our club scene to have to play the All Ireland Club finals in November/December? None at all!

These are my views, feel free to hammer me if you like but i likely won't change my mind!

Bald Eagle (None) - Posts: 1009 - 03/11/2015 16:05:10    1804105

He hasn't said one thing about the outrageous demands made of young players in the name of the Fitzgibbon and Sigerson Cups.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6180 - 03/11/2015 16:07:22    1804108

I thought they were gonna replace it with an U19 competition?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 03/11/2015 16:12:16    1804110

No consideration given to shortening the league season. If the divisions were divided into A and B groups of four, with the winners of the groups playing off to decide Division winners, it would mean that no team played more than 4 games. This would cut back on the league season and preparation period for it, to the benefit of players and clubs.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 03/11/2015 16:56:27    1804133

I also do not understand why U21 football goes, but U21 hurling stays? Surely both sets of players face the same situation. And shortening the championship by two weeks, but increase the number of league weekends? These are dreadful suggestions, my confidence in GAA leadership diminishes further.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 03/11/2015 17:20:08    1804146

The majority of players at u-21 level will never go on to senior success and u-21 is the highest standard they will achieve. So it should certainly be kept, in fact its a brainless idea which tends to overshadow whatever good might be in the report.

commercials1 (Limerick) - Posts: 115 - 03/11/2015 17:20:18    1804147

the biggest problem with burnout is overuse of certain players
witness lads playing for their college or u 21 team dring week and then same players made to play senior county league game on weekend
despite the fact that there are any amount of players aviable to manager who are overage for u 21+-or released from panel
the manager brings a load of u 21 lads to replace them and so it goes on every year very high turn over of players
leave the under 21 alone till their competiion is finished in some csases it only 1 or 2 games anyway
in myopinion u 21 football is one of best things I have seen over years great matches great development path too

rhudson (Galway) - Posts: 1478 - 03/11/2015 18:41:18    1804178

I would agree with pretty much everything you said there BaldEagle, so no point in going through it all again. This is definitely one of the most pointless, brainless GAA reports I have ever read, and trust me there is fair competition for that award. It sets out to reduce young player burn-out, and then proposes absolutely nothing to achieve that.
As several people have already posted here, the U-21 championship is a vital link between minor and senior level, and is hugely important in preventing player drop -off particularly at club level. If anything, it should be increased in importance, rather than dropped. If you are worried about burn-out in the 18-21 agr-group, get rid of the Sigerson/Fitzgibbon cups, or run them off quickly at this time of year. As it is, they are just a contest between college officials to see who can entice the most county players by offering pointless courses, and scholarships.
The biggest cause of player burn-out is idiot managers who wont look at the bigger picture outside of their little bubble, and refuse to work with other managers to ensure that lads can play the games they need to play, without being dragged here there and everywhere to endless training sessions and pointless matches.

anfearbeag (Meath) - Posts: 1134 - 03/11/2015 18:43:41    1804181