"You do know there's quite a few players/ex players north of Dublin with All Ireland Hurling medals or are you just conveniently ignoring this to suit your argument! "

I think the point he was making was about intercounty teams not club

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 08/09/2015 13:11:27    1784551

39 Provincial Titles in the Football
5 Sam Maguire Cups

And a 5 time World Handball Champion to boot


Are Cavan the ultimate Dual County??

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5271 - 08/09/2015 13:24:33    1784567

bumpernut, what has promoting the game got to do with teams thinking they can win all Irelands in two codes? I would happily promote hurling in mayo. I don't think we should be looking to take on Kilkenny next year though. Big difference there.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 08/09/2015 13:28:36    1784571

County teams are entitle to do what they want

But all this is...

Is just another advantage that one county has over the other

If all focus, dedication and funds are being pumped into one code

Then that's going to be an advantage to them when competing...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 08/09/2015 13:39:41    1784585

Stupid thread .

Donegal has no tradition in hurling yet 4-5 clubs try very hard every year .

Also soccer is massive in Donegal : we have 2 regulars out of the 11 playing for Ireland . Can any other county bar Dublin or Cork do this ??

Galway has also a far bigger population than Donegal and don't mention foreigners because there are 38,000 Presbyterians in Donegal : most of whom play either soccer or cricket !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 08/09/2015 13:39:50    1784586

Three things are needed for hurling development. 1) Player has to have ability to play. 2) Player has to want to play. 3) Player has to have parental/club/county support structures for it to happen.
1) Large swathes of players are eliminated here, as many young people don't have the natural coordination to be able to play. Not much interest in putting in the time on their own to become competent.
2) If a player is in a county with a stronger code, the whole county movements revolve around that stronger code. Society around you is hard to change. Therefore the want isn't there as the profile is so poor.
3) With minimum clubs, swathes of people are eliminated. The generation above by and large has no interest so the young player wont be supported. The minority sport is very disposable and usually easily thrown away as the support structures aren't in place.

Very few players will survive in this regime. Anyone who does survive to play into adulthood, has to have more of a love for the game than the lads from the so-called stronger counties. They get there due to persistence swimming upstream in a county going the other direction. Going with the flow is much easier all round - which makes all Ireland success so easy in Kilkenny.

highking (Mayo) - Posts: 168 - 08/09/2015 13:45:46    1784595

Are Cavan the ultimate Dual County??

Gaelic Football & meanness?

:-)

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 08/09/2015 13:47:41    1784599

Well put, Highking!

In many counties, there's hurling or football areas as well as east/west or north/south divides. That won't change anytime soon. I think the days where just 3 hurling clubs from the Ards peninsula could make a good county team for Down are numbered. I remember them competing in Division 1 against the likes of Tipperary. "Punching above your weight" can only last so long unless the county board really push on to develop & spread the game. The reality is since the "Golden Age" of the 90's, Kilkenny have refined their coaching structures & there's now a buy-in from the whole county since Cody's men began their successes.

Perhaps what needs to be done is to incentivise the promotion of the weaker sport in each county. For each new club that starts up (with the help of the CB) there should be a grant. For each underage or senior success (All-Ireland 'B', 'C', Meagher/Rackard/Ring, league promotion etc.) the CB gets financially rewarded. Donegal is well known as a football county but they're doing a lot of work at underage level for hurling. Their U15 squad competes at U16 'C' level while their U16 squad competes at 'B' level. Recently one of their squads was competing at a National Blitz ('B') in Wicklow & the team stayed in Dublin the night before. We need to see more of this kind of thing happening.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 08/09/2015 14:39:17    1784642

'If counties want to prioritise one, they lose out on the other one. That is already the trade off for people and the ones in mono-counties have accepted it. Maybe the real question is why do counties that don't have the facilities to do it, persist with trying to be a duel county - is it down to their own arrogance?


Master, not every dual county anticipates competing regularly with Kilkenny/Kerry.

They do it as much for promotion of the games within said County, so tell me how is that arrogant?

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 08/09/2015 15:17:23    1784679

I spoke about allocation of resources being primarily diverted to one code over the other in many counties - and when I say primarily, I mean between 70 and 99% of financial and other resources in some counties. This is creating and perpetuating imbalance. There are plenty of sports to vie for young people's attention now - more options than ever. Kids are being attracted to a myriad of other sports - a great thing in many ways, but I've travelled all over the world for years and don't think but know that, pound for pound, we absolutely have the two finest sports in the world. We are doing a lot but could do more to nurture both of these codes. There's always room to grow both. We need to look at ways of expanding on traditional football pockets like North Clare and traditional hurling pockets like Tooreen and Ballyhaunis in Mayo, Four Roads in Roscommon or indeed North Kerry (sorry lads, my neighbour is from Lixnaw, I should have thought about him before I put ye in the wrong category!! - but you know what I mean re resources and focus). I think Tipp seem to be doing a fine job at underage level and have strengthened up their football resources for the future no end - it might be a model to look at. As for Kilkenny, we'll post Cody down a football or two and he can see where they'll fit into his plans!!

BurshtOut (Galway) - Posts: 12 - 08/09/2015 15:34:12    1784690

It should be noted the obstacles put in front of Kerry and others in trying to be a hurling power , its not the easiest click to break into .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 08/09/2015 16:24:36    1784717

About half the Tipp minors this year. Respect.

plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 08/09/2015 20:52:01    1784859

Let me give everyone a demographic and geographic lecture about county Kilkenny; unlike every other county, there is no catchment area of the county, not one, where there are five to six clubs where football is the be-all and end-all, where we could put together a half-competitive panel capable at competing at division 4 league standard or fielding a championship team. There is only one club in the county where football is number one, Railyard at the Laois border.

I will say that football is more widely played and promoted than when I was a young lad, 80s/90s. I didn't kick a football in a competitive match until I was 17 years old. And truth be told, the option of playing football neither occurred to me nor was presented to me. These days, I would say that every club and primary school in Kilkenny have football teams, and from what I hear the kids love playing it, but when they hit 16/17 hurling takes over and football becomes an afterthought.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1256 - 08/09/2015 21:30:55    1784894

This topic has got me thinking. Don't think this is an anti Kilkenny post, I really like and respect the Kilkenny hurlers, their, skill, teams have it all great attitude, toughness and when Cody or his players are interviewed they seem a humble group.
But the truth is when most people think of Kilkenny they think of 2 things, the best hurling county who dominate hurling and the only county of all the 32 counties in Ireland who don't compete at football championship and also are the only county who don't compete in the football league.
When a football team plays a terrible match I have often heard the comment afterwards 'we wouldn't have beaten anyone today, well I suppose Kilkenny' and then people laugh. Surly Kilkenny would be capable of competing in division 4 of the league ?, many teams play championship football and get beaten most years in the first round of the championship but at least they field a team. If Kilkenny fielded a football team made up of players who have lost their places on the Kilkenny hurling panel I think they would probably be better than some of the teams playing championship this year. Would Kilkenny people not prefer to put out a team in the championship/ league and mostly get beaten well rather than have people constantly referring to the fact that they are the only county who do not field a football team in the league or championship ?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 10/09/2015 08:33:51    1785445

bdbuddah, read my post above yours regarding the demographics and geography of county Kilkenny. Every county who will be competing in even Division 4 of the League are either what you would call "football counties", or counties where there are large football areas (obviously Antrim would draw heavily from the Belfast clubs and London would have a large pick of footballing ex-pats to choose from). All of these teams are picking players who grew up in footballing hotbeds, playing practically only football their whole lives. There is simply no comparable equivalent in county Kilkenny.

And still, these teams struggle to get out of Division 4 and get thrashed in the championship every other year. How is Kilkenny, a county with no discernable football area from which to draw a semi-competitive football team, expected to compete if these counties aren't even able to?

Believe it or not, I was at this year's Kilkenny intermediate football final between Danesfort and Dicksboro. To my untrained eye, Paul Murphy would be an outstanding footballer, he's got the physique, fitness etc. plus he was able to score some long-range frees and 45s. But no county hurler is going to tog out for the county football team. There was a young guy on the Dicksboro team who looked very good also. The problem is, in football terms, are they actually good, or are they "Kilkenny good"? Would they be hopelessly out of their depth when put into a setting with born-and-bred footballers, even in division 4? Because there are very few, if any, "dual" players in Kilkenny - only hurlers to "tog out for the football" when the need arises. None of them would have the instinctive skills or movements of a player who's been playing football their whole life. I should have taken a football friend of mine to that match and asked him, are these guys genuinely good footballers, or are they a bunch of hurlers trying to play football?

I do agree though that the best footballers in the county should make themselves available for the county team, and should put in the proper preparation to try and compete at Div 4 and see how it goes - unfortunately most of them are usually top club hurlers and either don't want to jeopardise their place on their club team, or their club manager has told them that playing for the county footballers isn't an option. Club hurling managers in Kilkenny hold a lot of sway.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1256 - 10/09/2015 11:25:40    1785548

This topic is a red herring. Youd swear Gaelic football was this amazing sport everyone ought to play. Its not,its a very basic up and down ball game which isnt as good as rugby,soccer or aussie rules. Why should Kilkenny field a team? They are practitioners of a great ball game and want to be the best at it.
I dont want to appear to be anti football. A good game is very watchable but until the hierarchy decide on allowing a pulldown tackle the game will oscillate between soccer and rugby not knowing if it wants to be a more physical or less physical game.. dives...yellows..blacks and red cards are going to dominate until a player is allowed tackle another player to the ground.

BanTarleton (Clare) - Posts: 181 - 10/09/2015 12:36:18    1785577

Kilkenny have 3 Leinater SF titles to their name. The last win was about 100 years ago, at one time It was believed that football would be the dominant game. How did hurling become very much the number one sport Noreside? Maybe some Kilkenny fan could answer that question.
I believe there must be footballers in Kilkenny,who could compete at Div 4 at least.if they were given proper support.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 10/09/2015 14:16:40    1785650

BanTarleton
County: Clare
Posts: 181

1785577 This topic is a red herring. Youd swear Gaelic football was this amazing sport everyone ought to play. Its not,its a very basic up and down ball game which isnt as good as rugby,soccer or aussie rules. Why should Kilkenny field a team? They are practitioners of a great ball game and want to be the best at it.
I dont want to appear to be anti football. A good game is very watchable but until the hierarchy decide on allowing a pulldown tackle the game will oscillate between soccer and rugby not knowing if it wants to be a more physical or less physical game.. dives...yellows..blacks and red cards are going to dominate until a player is allowed tackle another player to the ground.

I would say football is generally a better game than rugby, soccer or aussie rules (I was at a few Aussie Rules games and they tend to be some exciting phases but the majority of the game is monotonous). You say it is a 'a very basic up and down ball game' I would agree with you but this is not a bad thing, when it was more basic years ago with less massed defences and hand passes it was far a better game and it is because it is basic that it is widely played. Hurling being a less basic sport has meant much less people play it. The fact that it is quiet basic is why it should be easier for a hurling county to put out a team than for a football county to put out a hurling team. I don't think Kilkenny fielding a football team would impact on the prospects of their hurling team (in the 1990's when Meath had one of the best football teams around the Meath hurlers did better (relatively speaking)than they usually do). The reason Kilkenny should at least put out a team is to give any players playing in the county a chance to at least play inter county football and stop Kilkenny being the only county out of all the 32 counties who don't play football.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 11/09/2015 14:39:44    1786111

Its all about funding and grant aid, if you support half of the GAA you get half the grants available etc simple really.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4954 - 11/09/2015 15:21:27    1786139

This topic is a red herring. Youd swear Gaelic football was this amazing sport everyone ought to play. Its not,its a very basic up and down ball game which isnt as good as rugby,soccer or aussie rules. Why should Kilkenny field a team? They are practitioners of a great ball game and want to be the best at it. I dont want to appear to be anti football. A good game is very watchable but until the hierarchy decide on allowing a pulldown tackle the game will oscillate between soccer and rugby not knowing if it wants to be a more physical or less physical game.. dives...yellows..blacks and red cards are going to dominate until a player is allowed tackle another player to the ground.

BanTarleton (Clare) - 10/09/2015 12:36:18

I think to tidy the game up they should allow players who receives a hand-pass to be properly rugby tackled. Get rid of the over use of the hand-pass. Also when a ball is thrown up the ball can only be punched or palmed like in Aussie Rules e.g restart .

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 13/09/2015 08:46:35    1786493