To be honest i find it comical this assumption that Rugby people are somehow less Irish!! Ignorance in the extreme.

People complain about RTE for example not giving GAA fair coverage and then complain when they take games away from them and give them to sky sports for example.

I have to laugh at suggestions that its somehow less irish because they dont use the Irish language when 95% of the bloody population has only the ability to ask can they go to the toilet when it comes to using the Irish language.

People really need to live and let live at this stage, its 2015. To be quite honest who cares if GAA is 1st, 2nd or 3rd on RTE news? Honestly!!

I dont even watch RTE news, why because im generally on my way to a match, up training the U10 and U12s up in the pitch, bringing the young fella to handball or in a committee meeting or something of that ilk. It would be great to have the time to sit down analyse the percentages amounts the GAA is mentioned on any given day but im thinking in some small way the GAA might benefit more from what im doing.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1534 - 13/10/2015 08:44:13    1798229

12/10/2015 19:38:49 mod
If the O'Brien punch happened at a GAA match would it appear on the Six O'Clock news? I think we all know the answer to that. Not only would it appear but it would be shown in detail together with some reporter giving out about GAA violence. So why the double standards. I think we all know the answer to that. The O Brien incident did appear on the news. So no double standards. Also covered in depth in other media
12/10/2015 21:16:18 fainleog
Mod - I presume the reason RTE do not refer to the incident you refer to as violent is because violence is endemic in the rugby field, neither do RTE state that a punch was thrown, instead they use the word sighted, a nice refined word for what was a violent incident. Many of these people who defend the hard hits in the rugby field are people who do not play the game themselves. Those people do not have to live with the consequences of these hard hits in later life. I certainly would discourage my children from playing the game of rugby. Violence endemic in rugby??? No it isn't.
RTE use the word "cited" as that is the discipline process in rugby. You cite the player and they then face a discipline hearing.
12/10/2015 22:02:23 sceptical
Look Paul o connell is a legend and Sunday was a great performance but in a weekend where 18 county finals are played we have no mention of some matches in media. The hype around this world cup is rediculous. I mean ireland beat Romania canada Italy and France none of whom are great. Listening to rte you would think that we are all putting mortgages on winning the Web Ellis. Who would know that about 100000 people PAID into gaa matches this weekend. HYPE HYPE AND MORE HYPE. Its a world cup where we can reach a level never reached before. Its a national team of one of the countries largest sports. Of course that will get considerable more interest than club games even if they are county finals which will only have very limited appeal across the country.
13/10/2015 08:28:31 slayer
All fair points but I guess it is mainly up to the local media to cover county finals and the county teams. Limerick's Live 95 gives excellent coverage to Gaelic Football & Hurling and on Saturday mornings has a segment for Soccer and Athletics. Most sports in the region are covered and e also have a pretty impressive commentator called Liam Aherne who is passionate about all things GAA and adds excitement to the games he covers. If Ireland or Munster are playing rugby I'd often listen to Limerick 95 if they are covering the game as we have Len Dineen covering the games, a true passionate rugby man. His commentary is not great, often you wouldn't have a clue where the ball is on the pitch & only hear 'the tackles fly in' but by God does the man put love of the game into every word.
So what the National broadcaster often leaves be, can be covered by the local stations. totally correct

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/10/2015 09:56:54    1798251

slayer
County: Limerick
Posts: 5703



All fair points but I guess it is mainly up to the local media to cover county finals and the county teams. Limerick's Live 95 gives excellent coverage to Gaelic Football & Hurling and on Saturday mornings has a segment for Soccer and Athletics. Most sports in the region are covered and e also have a pretty impressive commentator called Liam Aherne who is passionate about all things GAA and adds excitement to the games he covers. If Ireland or Munster are playing rugby I'd often listen to Limerick 95 if they are covering the game as we have Len Dineen covering the games, a true passionate rugby man. His commentary is not great, often you wouldn't have a clue where the ball is on the pitch & only hear 'the tackles fly in' but by God does the man put love of the game into every word.

So what the National broadcaster often leaves be, can be covered by the local stations.

Excellent post. I 100% agree. The Cork county final got tonnes of coverage in our local media. It deserved it because there is always a big interest in it. It got a little bit of national coverage on TG4 last night as well. This is very good as well. I would not expect much more coverage really as most people outside of Cork have no interest. RTE don't have coverage of the rugby world cup at the moment but that really is the main national news story (the Irish soccer team is also a big news story at present - as big perhaps) and therefore you would expect RTE to give coverage to that.

What is the difference between hype and over hype? Is there an actual measure? The rugby team is a good news story of sorts..the pubs are full, people are spending money and are happy..now whether you think they have no chance of winning or every chance is almost an irrelevance as we are on a jolly regardless and we will see what happens...

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 13/10/2015 10:13:06    1798255

There are a lot of red herrings (Irishness etc.) being thrown into this debate but it has nothing to do with in essence its really all about double standards.
There isn't a sport called GAA it's an organisation representing a number of sports two of whom (hurling and football) are more popular than rugby. Popular being players and match attendances. I've heard it quoted that there are more Gaelic clubs in Cork than rugby clubs in Ireland.
The rugby apologists deal in opinions but we have been given the facts by mediaman and they are incontrovertible. Rugby gets a disproportionate amount of air time from rte and it is overwhelmingly positive.
So let's look at some facts. There is a twitter account which looks occasionally at RTE bias @rtewatch and I noted this startling statistic. The record for consecutive mentions of rugby on the 6 oclock news (although I suspect it is being broken now) is 19 the figure for GAA and remember this covers both hurling and football was 4. Surely people who see that have to ask themselves the question how did that happen.
Here is another fact. GAA matches covered by SKY were ignored by RTE 6 oclock sports section. That's right, no mention whatsoever and this includes such important games as the Leinster Football Final A complete sports news black out..
If that is RTE policy, it is very strange but perhaps understandable. However the policy is not consistent we now have the Rugby World Cup matches on TV3 but the 6 o'clock news can't give us enough of this event which is covered by a rival broadcaster.. Double standard.
Now back to the O'Brien incident. It was not covered on the 6o'clock news The Philly McMahon All Ireland incident was covered on the 6 o'clock news and what is more McMahon was called to account for his actions by an RTE interviewer.
I looked at the 9 o'clock news and yes the O'Brien punch was mentioned and shown but it was all brushed aside in the rest of the piece which was smothered in "aren't we all jolly fellows having a lark" referencing Madigan tears and Fitzgerald golfing ability.
The image being given to the public was quite different. Why the double standard?
Now as regards leaving local sports to be covered by local media. Club rugby games are covered by our national media the Hino games and also the Pro 12 lesser competition . The rugby prog Against the head covers (at great expense I imagine) lower order club games. So why should GAA be treated differently?
You can accept it or demand that our licence payer funded national? broadcaster represent all of us It is funded by all of us for the benefit of all of us not a tiny rugby clique in rte.
So rte must treat all sports the same, give most coverage to the most popular sports, If you highlight foul play in one sport you must do the same in all.
Surely that is not too much to expect. I imagine any outsider looking in would not find that unreasonable.

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 13/10/2015 12:41:31    1798319

13/10/2015 12:41:31 mod
There are a lot of red herrings (Irishness etc.) being thrown into this debate but it has nothing to do with in essence its really all about double standards.
There isn't a sport called GAA it's an organisation representing a number of sports two of whom (hurling and football) are more popular than rugby. Popular being players and match attendances. I've heard it quoted that there are more Gaelic clubs in Cork than rugby clubs in Ireland.
The rugby apologists deal in opinions but we have been given the facts by mediaman and they are incontrovertible. Rugby gets a disproportionate amount of air time from rte and it is overwhelmingly positive.There isn't any double standards. Rugby is the primary professional team sport in the country. Its sides provincially and nationally regularly are competing and winning trophies. Of course they will get significant coverage. Hurling/Gaelic main competitions are knockout which don't help with media coverage compared to league competitions. They are quite different...
Rugby doesn't get a disproportionate amount of coverage considering it is professional compared to GAAs amateur ethos
13/10/2015 12:41:31 mod
Now back to the O'Brien incident. It was not covered on the 6o'clock news The Philly McMahon All Ireland incident was covered on the 6 o'clock news and what is more McMahon was called to account for his actions by an RTE interviewer.
I looked at the 9 o'clock news and yes the O'Brien punch was mentioned and shown but it was all brushed aside in the rest of the piece which was smothered in "aren't we all jolly fellows having a lark" referencing Madigan tears and Fitzgerald golfing ability.
The image being given to the public was quite different. Why the double standard?
Now as regards leaving local sports to be covered by local media. Club rugby games are covered by our national media the Hino games and also the Pro 12 lesser competition. The rugby prog Against the head covers (at great expense I imagine) lower order club games. So why should GAA be treated differently?The O Brien incident has been covered on multiple news media formats. It wasn't brushed aside in the news. Club GAA games are regularly listed in terms of results on rte news. Also have brief highlights. Club rugby has a few games and that isn't every year.
Pro12 is played on 22 weeks of the season. European cup is primary aim but its only a max of 9 games per side. Of course the pro12 will get significant coverage considering its over double the length of the European competition.
You are imagining club highlights are at great expense....
GAA club games are shown on tg4 and very well... rte cant show too much of what they don't have coverage of.... a rugby world cup cant be compared to club gaa games

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/10/2015 13:21:39    1798344

Ormondbanner; As I said already the rugby apologists deal in opinions. If you want to contribute to a meaningful debate how about giving some facts to support your thesis. Being professional means you get paid that's it. I cannot see the logic in your argument that it de facto also entitles one to more coverage on our licence payer funded national broadcaster.

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 13/10/2015 17:23:27    1798488

Fainleog -- neither do RTE state that a punch was thrown, instead they use the word sighted, a nice refined word for what was a violent incident.

Maybe they should refer to it as a "schmozzle"

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 13/10/2015 18:13:28    1798501

It's well for ye bucks that can watch as much sport as ye like on TV. At home I don't have the luxury of deciding between hurling, football, rugby,soccer etc. For me it's the old dilemma of trying to watch some sport or keeping my 5 year old daughter happy watching Dora the Explorer, Peppa Pig or Dinotrux before 8 PM. Missing a bit of sport is worth it for a quiet life!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8171 - 13/10/2015 18:15:10    1798502

I'm sorry mod but some of what you have said simply isn't true:


Here is another fact. GAA matches covered by SKY were ignored by RTE 6 oclock sports section. That's right, no mention whatsoever and this includes such important games as the Leinster Football Final A complete sports news black out..
If that is RTE policy, it is very strange but perhaps understandable. However the policy is not consistent we now have the Rugby World Cup matches on TV3 but the 6 o'clock news can't give us enough of this event which is covered by a rival broadcaster.. Double standard.

This is not a fact as you have stated. For starters the Leinster Football Final was broadcast on RTÉ not Sky, and of course it was on the 6 News that night, 16.48 in http://www.rte.ie/news/player/six-one-news-web/2015/0712/#page=8

And because I thought what you had claimed to be fairly unbelievable I did a quick check on 2 random games Sky covered. On 27th June Sky broadcast the Ulster semi final, and funny enough it was mentioned on the 6 News. Throw in wasn't untl 7pm but it still got a mention, 20.43 in http://www.rte.ie/news/player/six-one-news-web/2015/0627/#page=9

Sky had 2 qualifier games on 18th July, the 6 News that night had the Tipp/Tyrone game as their main Sports headline, 37 seconds in http://www.rte.ie/news/player/six-one-news-web/2015/0718/#page=8

I think maybe you should check your sources before quoting them as FACT

turkeyplucker (UK) - Posts: 137 - 13/10/2015 18:24:28    1798507

Rugby will never match the GAA in terms of numbers playing the game. That's the main thing.

However, the furore over this Irish team is nauseating, and also there is a worrying aspect to all of this. In my opinion there is a never ending reverence applied to the Irish rugby team, no matter what, win lose or draw. They're infallible in the eyes of the media.The terminology used to describe them (this is in no way a slight on the players, or the game, rather my gripe is with the media's treatment of the sport) is frequently along the lines of "heroes, legends etc" and games of rugby are even used to solve political disputes (see Ire v Eng Croker, 2007). Someone even suggested POC getting injured was the sporting equivalent of Mick Collins being shot. I mean come on. For a GAA man like myself with only a fleeting interest in rugby, does the saturation by the media really help?

Sportsmen are not heroes, they are players getting paid to do what they do. There are much more important, unsung positions in society that are deserving of the term "hero" than sports people. Volunteers who feed the homeless and other charitable people are heroes, and that's what we should be teaching the kids of today.

I hope Ireland do well for the genuine down to earth people involved in rugby,like mr ormond who has a horrid time defending the game on here!

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 13/10/2015 18:30:53    1798509

Look I warned against this but with saturation of a sport that involves nothing more than battering your opponent into submission it becomes the sport of choice for this bandwagon nation. In a week where our soccer team (a sport played by over 250 nations ) Beat the world cup winners but are then dismissed as been useless when losing to Poland ( a nation of 35 million who call football their national sport) where we have gaa matches all attended by thousands but ignored. Then the rugby team beat a demoralised and shambolic France in a game where 7 players are seriously injured and this is glorified and glamorised. Imagine if this happened in gaa? Sean o brien punches his opponent pape and is manager says it's ok as it was a open fist? Sure all young lads should do the same in their next junior cup match. Tony ward wrote today in the indo that he believes pape deserved it. Top that with the rubbish about tier two nations. (That's rugger talk for crap) how none were beaten by 100 points. I wonder is this newfound respect anything to do with the fact that ireland played 3 of them on their glorious run to the last 8 of a sport played by 12 countries.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 13/10/2015 18:48:38    1798517

Never is a long time Mr Stormcrow. The next 20 years will test the quality of your "never". Cultural change is taking place and it doesnt look like coming to a halt any time soon.If 10 years ago somebody said that a predictable mismatch like Ireland vs Romania would attract a bigger attendance than an All Ireland final or that ANY rugby international match would attract a greater viewership than the All Ireland football or hurling finals,they would be laughed out the door.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2058 - 13/10/2015 18:58:52    1798521

PoolSturgeon
County: Galway
Posts: 272

1798521
Never is a long time Mr Stormcrow. The next 20 years will test the quality of your "never". Cultural change is taking place and it doesnt look like coming to a halt any time soon.If 10 years ago somebody said that a predictable mismatch like Ireland vs Romania would attract a bigger attendance than an All Ireland final or that ANY rugby international match would attract a greater viewership than the All Ireland football or hurling finals,they would be laughed out the door.

Bring it on, bring it on.

Anecdotal history is against you.

But in my view there is no cultural paradigm shift among the people. It is entirely media driven by a small, vociferous and influential minority propagating views which do not resonate with the majority, but if you throw enough mud it'll stick I suppose. As a people the Irish have an inferiority complex, and because our rugby team is by international standards quite simply outstanding at the moment, they will attract a massive bandwagon following to make people feel good about themselves. The soccer team enjoyed similar stints in 1990 and 2002, before things took a turn for the worst and now the soccer team plays in front of a half full aviva. Every sport has it's time in the sun, but the GAA is still there, omnipresent. We'll see how fickle the mob is when/if a downturn in the rugby teams fortunes occurs.

Try as they might, rugby can't offer something unique that the GAA can and that's why some sports will always play second fiddle to the indigenous game. And that is a sense of nationalist expression in a peaceful/voluntarist way, which is why sumo wrestling, GAA and NFL are number one in their respective countries.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 13/10/2015 19:16:53    1798523

Not alone is the Running Order of items on RTE 6.01 News and Sport important in fact as far as journalists are concerned it is all important. The Running Order reflects the news priorities of a media organisation such as RTE. the only people who would disagree with that are those who seek to disguise or hide the true nature of RTE 6.01 Sports output. Once again the September figures highlight this. If you award 10 points to the 1st Sports item, 9 points to the 2nd and so on for the 30 days of September you find out just how much of a bias we face.

RTE Running Order Weighting
1. Rugby totals 246 points
2. Soccer totals 221 points
3. Gaelic Games totals 216 points

Rugby already topped the other two categories, Frequency and No.1 Item but it's still difficult to understand why two Rugby Union internationals against RWC cannon fodder Canada and Romania merit greater coverage than the All Ireland Football and Hurling Finals which attracted far higher average audiences than the Rugby Union games. Just one month. That's all we were asking for but no even that seems too much to expect from RTE and its very intransigent support group. The figures for RTE's Online coverage for September are even more shocking. Wait until you see them.

mediaman (Antrim) - Posts: 355 - 13/10/2015 19:48:23    1798535

GAA will, as always survive, who really cares at what stage of a news report it is mentioned. Some people are really insecure, get over it. We had one poor demented soul checking at times, dates ect GAA got mentioned on the national broadcaster! There's a whole world out there go and enjoy. GAA people do not need constant reassurance, we already know we have something both unique and special

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2223 - 13/10/2015 19:55:26    1798542

To be honest i find it comical this assumption that Rugby people are somehow less Irish!! Ignorance in the extreme.

^^^ this ^^^ is spot on.

Never really understood the hostility between GAA, soccer and rugby and I don't think there is as far as most people are concerned. Like, I've never felt the need to sit down and decide what matters more, Wexford winning, Leinster winning or the Irish soccer team winning, it's not like they're ever going to play each other in a dual code!

MedwayIrish (Wexford) - Posts: 2324 - 13/10/2015 20:03:04    1798546

13/10/2015 18:30:53 Ned_Stormcrow
Rugby will never match the GAA in terms of numbers playing the game. That's the main thing.
However, the furore over this Irish team is nauseating, and also there is a worrying aspect to all of this. In my opinion there is a never ending reverence applied to the Irish rugby team, no matter what, win lose or draw. They're infallible in the eyes of the media. The terminology used to describe them (this is in no way a slight on the players, or the game, rather my gripe is with the media's treatment of the sport) is frequently along the lines of "heroes, legends etc" and games of rugby are even used to solve political disputes (see Ire v Eng Croker, 2007). Someone even suggested POC getting injured was the sporting equivalent of Mick Collins being shot. I mean come on. For a GAA man like myself with only a fleeting interest in rugby, does the saturation by the media really help?
Sportsmen are not heroes, they are players getting paid to do what they do. There are much more important, unsung positions in society that are deserving of the term "hero" than sports people. Volunteers who feed the homeless and other charitable people are heroes, and that's what we should be teaching the kids of today.
I hope Ireland do well for the genuine down to earth people involved in rugby,like mr ormond who has a horrid time defending the game on here! I think the coverage of the irish team is very typical of any major team doing well in any of the big team sports in big competitions. Euro2012,italia90 etc etc
I don't think media see team as Infallible. Plenty in media have and do write stories knocking them....
Its very common with the way the world has gone for sports people at top of their games to be idolised. Just human nature...

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/10/2015 20:51:23    1798563

13/10/2015 18:48:38 sceptical
Look I warned against this but with saturation of a sport that involves nothing more than battering your opponent into submission it becomes the sport of choice for this bandwagon nation. In a week where our soccer team (a sport played by over 250 nations ) Beat the world cup winners but are then dismissed as been useless when losing to Poland ( a nation of 35 million who call football their national sport) where we have gaa matches all attended by thousands but ignored. Then the rugby team beat a demoralised and shambolic France in a game where 7 players are seriously injured and this is glorified and glamorised. Imagine if this happened in gaa? Sean o brien punches his opponent pape and is manager says it's ok as it was a open fist? Sure all young lads should do the same in their next junior cup match. Tony ward wrote today in the indo that he believes pape deserved it. Top that with the rubbish about tier two nations. (That's rugger talk for crap) how none were beaten by 100 points. I wonder is this newfound respect anything to do with the fact that ireland played 3 of them on their glorious run to the last 8 of a sport played by 12 countries. Very ignorant to say rugby is only played by 12 nations. Very foolish to say that as well. as for the rest. You love to criticise people in rugby for being arrogant etc. Well your post is just total snobbery and arrogance.
13/10/2015 19:16:53 Ned_Stormcrow
Bring it on, bring it on. Anecdotal history is against you.
But in my view there is no cultural paradigm shift among the people. It is entirely media driven by a small, vociferous and influential minority propagating views which do not resonate with the majority, but if you throw enough mud it'll stick I suppose. As a people the Irish have an inferiority complex, and because our rugby team is by international standards quite simply outstanding at the moment, they will attract a massive bandwagon following to make people feel good about themselves. The soccer team enjoyed similar stints in 1990 and 2002, before things took a turn for the worst and now the soccer team plays in front of a half full aviva. Every sport has it's time in the sun, but the GAA is still there, omnipresent. We'll see how fickle the mob is when/if a downturn in the rugby teams fortunes occurs. Ned you will have to admit there is significant cultural changes ongoing in the country and peoples cultural awareness is broadening and that includes sport. There is wider much wider opportunities being made available to people.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/10/2015 20:52:07    1798564

13/10/2015 19:16:53 Ned_Stormcrow
Try as they might, rugby can't offer something unique that the GAA can and that's why some sports will always play second fiddle to the indigenous game. And that is a sense of nationalist expression in a peaceful/voluntarist way, which is why sumo wrestling, GAA and NFL are number one in their respective countries. Rugby can offer many things unique to it that are not apparent/available in the GAA. Respect to officials is just one of many.
13/10/2015 19:55:26 seadog54
GAA will, as always survive, who really cares at what stage of a news report it is mentioned. Some people are really insecure, get over it. We had one poor demented soul checking at times, dates ect GAA got mentioned on the national broadcaster! There's a whole world out there go and enjoy. GAA people do not need constant reassurance, we already know we have something both unique and special spot on

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/10/2015 20:52:21    1798565

Ah Seadog, sure you can't be saying that! The fractions of minutes given to our national broadcaster gives on it's newstime to a foreign game played by lads with posh accents is a matter of extreme importance. I reckon if we get in there quick Leinster House will go ahead with a referendum, to run the same day as the election, based on the opinions of 30 or 40 people posting on a forum. Seeing as we're a bit multicultural in the last while it'll be interesting to see how people from some of the 'two hundred and fifty' nation's will vote. With a low turnout the sports headlines could end up being about Polish volleyball or Nigerian hockey. You couldn't rule anything out really as the posters here definitely represent the majority decision.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8171 - 13/10/2015 21:17:28    1798583