04/11/2015 12:01:48 Greengrass
Excellent point Mediaman and very well made. Sums up RTE's "balance" or lack thereof. Speaking g of lack of balance Ormond your last post sums up your blindness, wilful or otherwise in relation to Connacht's treatment at the hands of The IRFU. For years qualification for The Heineken Cup for Irish provinces was a straight four team competition between the four provinces in The Magniers League. The top three Irish provinces in The Magniers League qualified for The Heineken Cup. For all of that time The IRFU persisted in sustaining a huge disparity in funding between Connacht and the other three provinces thereby guaranteeing perpetual qualification for The Heineken Cup for Munster, Ulster and Leinster. There could be no justification for this as it completely violated the concept of fair competition. So much for Connacht developing because of competition. I know Connacht's funding has been increased Ormond but do they now receive funding equal to the funding of the other three provinces? Given that the four provinces are still in competition with each other should they not now receive equal funding? Connacht are only now getting near being able to meet other provinces in terms of relative support. They've always got smaller funding as they didn't need the same support due to them having less internationals, needing less than the other provinces. the other provinces got more funding primarily through central contracts mainly going to their players and the money saved could be used for squad players. That is still the case as Henshaw is only Connacht player on central contract.
The provinces haven't always got the same funding. Munster have received extra funding over the past few years as have Ulster at different stages. Ulster used the extra money to help sign some of the south Africans like wannenburg and Munster used it to pay off some of the debt on Thomond park.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/11/2015 13:46:14    1804370

Just another way to smooth qualifucation through to the Heineken Cup for the big three provinces Ormond and to ensure that qualification was perpetual. It was wrong and should have been faced down by all clubs involved in top level rugby in all five of the other European nations . How does funding work in Wales ? Is one of their clubs looked on as being a feeder club for the other clubs ?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6182 - 04/11/2015 14:40:49    1804394

Greengrass
Just another way to smooth qualifucation through to the Heineken Cup for the big three provinces Ormond and to ensure that qualification was perpetual. It was wrong and should have been faced down by all clubs involved in top level rugby in all five of the other European nations . How does funding work in Wales ? Is one of their clubs looked on as being a feeder club for the other clubs? Yes it does work like that in other countries and there isn't anything wrong with it. Limited resources and getting best out of them.
Why would other countries or clubs/regions have an input in that? English/French sides are private entities in a different form to the irish sides and have much bigger outputs
In wales funding is different as regions are in some cases partially owned by private individuals and not just the WRU

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/11/2015 15:59:10    1804425

Nonsense Ormond . It had nothing to do with maximising resources . It had all to do with perpetuating the status quo and safeguarding the qualification of Ulster, Munster and Leinster for The Heineken Cup . Those three provinces due to their inbuilt majority on the relevant representative committee ensured that nothing changed . What was supposed to be a four team competition was nothing of the sort . It wasn't a four team competition . It was a three team procession which facilitated the participation of those three teams in The Heineken Cup . They were able to promise top players guaranteed participation in The Heineken Cup every year . French and English teams especially could not do that . It was a huge advantage. Even with that Ulster were an embarrassment for ten years . With real competition for qualification Ulster might not have wasted resources for those ten years . The whole thing stank to high Heaven . Spare me the nonsense about making best use of resources Ormond.It was a stitch up to help the big three in The Heineken Cup . I remember Gerry Thornley railing against it in The Irish Times. It's a pity the rest of the rugby fraternity in this country didn't have the same integrity as Thornley.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6182 - 04/11/2015 16:38:32    1804441

You have to be joking ormonde. Connacht, a team representing a few thousand rugby fans and the 20 or so clubs in the province, were kept intentionally weak and all to keep the old boys network in their annual visit to the Heineken cup. How else can you justify Mccarthy Cronin, keatley, before the departure of o gara, etc, bench warming rather than been allowed game time with connacht. What more evidence of elitism would you need than a professional team been treated as a second class citizen when ONLY FOUR teams exist.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 04/11/2015 18:30:08    1804479

If the All-Ireland Finals are brought forward by two weeks what will the be the likely impact on TV coverage of football and hurling. The figures relating to the RTE 6.01 News and Sport coverage of Gaelic Games in October might give a hint of what the proposed All-Ireland Final changes will mean.

In October RTE 6.01 devoted 218 minutes to Sport.

1. Rugby - 75 minutes of the total (34%)
2. Soccer - 70 minutes of the total (32%)
3. Boxing - 33 minutes of the total (15%)
=4. GAA and Golf - 11minutes each (5% each)
6. Horse Racing - 7 minutes (3%)

Based on these figures Gaelic Games can expect very poor coverage of Club competitions in September as well as October if the proposed changes become a reality. As far as RTE News is concerned Club competitions aren't of any real significance. October's 5% proves that when compared to Rugby/Soccer's combined 66%.

mediaman (Antrim) - Posts: 355 - 05/11/2015 20:13:33    1804811

mediaman -
If the All-Ireland Finals are brought forward by two weeks what will the be the likely impact on TV coverage of football and hurling.

little id say because they would still be showing two live matches a week tg4 may even get to show more club games

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 05/11/2015 20:43:14    1804822

Based on an event that hasn't occurred and no Rugby World Cup for another 4 years. Very scientific.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8176 - 05/11/2015 21:20:16    1804835

04/11/2015 16:38:32 Greengrass
Nonsense Ormond. It had nothing to do with maximising resources. It had all to do with perpetuating the status quo and safeguarding the qualification of Ulster, Munster and Leinster for The Heineken Cup. Those three provinces due to their inbuilt majority on the relevant representative committee ensured that nothing changed. What was supposed to be a four team competition was nothing of the sort. It wasn't a four team competition. It was a three team procession which facilitated the participation of those three teams in The Heineken Cup. They were able to promise top players guaranteed participation in The Heineken Cup every year. French and English teams especially could not do that. It was a huge advantage. Even with that Ulster were an embarrassment for ten years. With real competition for qualification Ulster might not have wasted resources for those ten years. The whole thing stank to high Heaven. Spare me the nonsense about making best use of resources Ormond.It was a stitch up to help the big three in The Heineken Cup. I remember Gerry Thornley railing against it in The Irish Times. It's a pity the rest of the rugby fraternity in this country didn't have the same integrity as Thornley. It is completely about maximising resources. That Connacht only in the past 3/4 years have been making significant money from their own work as well also comes into the discussion. Connacht were a development province. They have(had) smallest playing numbers by far and also get given players from the other provinces. Ulster did waste resources but Connacht have not been perfect and wasted enough themselves. They've had loans from IRFU to cover wastage as much as Munster and Ulster have. There wasn't a stitch up to help the big 3.
04/11/2015 18:30:08
sceptical
You have to be joking ormonde. Connacht, a team representing a few thousand rugby fans and the 20 or so clubs in the province, were kept intentionally weak and all to keep the old boys network in their annual visit to the Heineken cup. How else can you justify Mccarthy Cronin, keatley, before the departure of o gara, etc, bench warming rather than been allowed game time with connacht. What more evidence of elitism would you need than a professional team been treated as a second class citizen when ONLY FOUR teams exist. Cronin, Keatley, McCarthy are not Connacht born and bred and rightfully wanted to go to teams who would challenge for trophies and if all wanted to be near the irish squad they had to move as none are out and out international quality and needed the higher standard to push them on. Henshaw may move on if he doesn't get enough quality rugby with Connacht but considering he is Connacht born and bred unlike the others he may stay. Keatley got to learn off O Gara and got to play most pro12 and learned in the set up off him.
05/11/2015 20:13:33 mediaman
If the All-Ireland Finals are brought forward by two weeks what will the be the likely impact on TV coverage of football and hurling. The figures relating to the RTE 6.01 News and Sport coverage of Gaelic Games in October might give a hint of what the proposed All-Ireland Final changes will mean.
In October RTE 6.01 devoted 218 minutes to Sport.
1. Rugby - 75 minutes of the total (34%)
2. Soccer - 70 minutes of the total (32%)
3. Boxing - 33 minutes of the total (15%)
=4. GAA and Golf - 11minutes each (5% each)
6. Horse Racing - 7 minutes (3%)The rugby world cup, one of the worlds biggest sporting events was on all throughout October so of course it got most coverage. Soccer would have got next considering the important euro16 qualifiers we played, the draw for next weeks playoff as well as the premiership.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 06/11/2015 10:33:29    1804885

It most certainly was a stitch up Ormond and well you know it . It was also disgraceful given that it made an absolute mockery of the spirit of competition as I outlined earlier . And to think that certain sections of the rugby fraternity consider themselves to be a cut above buttermilk .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6182 - 06/11/2015 16:11:32    1804995

06/11/2015 16:11:32
Greengrass
It most certainly was a stitch up Ormond and well you know it. It was also disgraceful given that it made an absolute mockery of the spirit of competition as I outlined earlier. And to think that certain sections of the rugby fraternity consider themselves to be a cut above buttermilk. Stitch up? It wasn't. Connacht have always until relatively recently been seen as a development province and benefited hugely from players, coaches etc from other provinces helping them by going on "loan" for want of a better word before going back to their home province. Connacht haven't been treated disgracefully and weren't. To say they were is hyperbole in the extreme.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 06/11/2015 16:24:14    1804998

Of course it's hyperbole to say that connacht were treated unfairly by the IRFU. With clubs as long running as galwegians and buccaneers and then men such as Eric elwood carrying the flag sure they deserved years of threats against the very existence of their representative team. Like it or not, connacht treatment at the hands of Dublin is a by product of an attitude of superiority over the west that comes from very old upper class ideals about the regional pecking order in this country. The rugby fraternity, for all their talk of expansion are still as inward looking as they always were.

sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 06/11/2015 17:58:00    1805016

Bucaneers isn't a long running club. Nearly all other Connacht clubs are in existence longer than Bucaneers and, strictly speaking, it's not even in Connacht.

Connacht is not a traditional rugby area in comparison to Ulster, Leinster and Munster. We have very few rugby schools. Garbally in Ballinasloe, traditionally the best known. Sligo Grammar and The Jes and The Bish also playing rugby for a while. After the efforts of IRFU other schools are now playing rugby. The IRFU did want to cut Connacht Rugby loose. As a professional organisation it was a money pit. We've never been able to compete with the resources of the other provinces when it comes to trophies. Efforts in Connacht Rugby have made us more financially stable and still get considerable IRFU backing. If trying to develop the sport in non-traditionally rugby playing schools while providing needed financial support is a 'by product of an attitude of superiority over the west that comes from very old upper class ideals about the regional pecking order in this country' I'd say that many people involved with Connacht Rugby at club right down to schools level, would disagree with you.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8176 - 06/11/2015 19:09:42    1805033

Tomorrow Sunday there will be 8 Provincial Club Championship matches (plus 2 County Finals). TG4 are broadcasting 2 games live and highlights of a further 3 games on Monday. Wouldn't it be great if RTE News and Sport showed clips from all the available matches rather than just 2 as is the norm. That would be providing a good service for the largest sports community in the country. Sadly RTE will probably only focus on some of the other matches if there's something negative to report.

mediaman (Antrim) - Posts: 355 - 07/11/2015 21:53:15    1805254

06/11/2015 17:58:00
sceptical
Of course it's hyperbole to say that connacht were treated unfairly by the IRFU. With clubs as long running as galwegians and buccaneers and then men such as Eric elwood carrying the flag sure they deserved years of threats against the very existence of their representative team. Like it or not, connacht treatment at the hands of Dublin is a by product of an attitude of superiority over the west that comes from very old upper class ideals about the regional pecking order in this country. The rugby fraternity, for all their talk of expansion are still as inward looking as they always were. Years of threats? IRFU were broke for years and looked to cut places/teams that were creating such losses. Its common sense to do that. Connacht treatment by Dublin(its by all the provinces so blaming Dublin is completely wrong). No attitude of superiority in place.
06/11/2015 19:09:42 GreenandRed
Bucaneers isn't a long running club. Nearly all other Connacht clubs are in existence longer than Bucaneers and, strictly speaking, it's not even in Connacht.
Connacht is not a traditional rugby area in comparison to Ulster, Leinster and Munster. We have very few rugby schools. Garbally in Ballinasloe, traditionally the best known. Sligo Grammar and The Jes and The Bish also playing rugby for a while. After the efforts of IRFU other schools are now playing rugby. The IRFU did want to cut Connacht Rugby loose. As a professional organisation it was a money pit. We've never been able to compete with the resources of the other provinces when it comes to trophies. Efforts in Connacht Rugby have made us more financially stable and still get considerable IRFU backing. If trying to develop the sport in non-traditionally rugby playing schools while providing needed financial support is a 'by product of an attitude of superiority over the west that comes from very old upper class ideals about the regional pecking order in this country' I'd say that many people involved with Connacht Rugby at club right down to schools level, would disagree with you.Buccaneers are a long running club. Name comes from a club set up in the 30s and it was a merger of two clubs one of whom was founded in the 1870s so in many ways it is a very old club
Buccaneers, just like the Athlone rugby club, have always played in Connacht and in rugby terms Athlone is in Connacht.
07/11/2015 21:53:15
mediaman
Tomorrow Sunday there will be 8 Provincial Club Championship matches (plus 2 County Finals). TG4 are broadcasting 2 games live and highlights of a further 3 games on Monday. Wouldn't it be great if RTE News and Sport showed clips from all the available matches rather than just 2 as is the norm. That would be providing a good service for the largest sports community in the country. Sadly RTE will probably only focus on some of the other matches if there's something negative to report. Not true that RTE will focus on the negative.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 09/11/2015 10:39:54    1805514

They're a merger of two long running clubs but the current Bucaneers are around since '93. Not sure if they play any junior games in Ballinasloe any more? We used to play in Athlone or Ballinasloe after Bucaneers were formed but it was just their thirds we played. Sound Buccs, intentiontal pun!

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8176 - 09/11/2015 11:08:02    1805526

Gaelic Games have for a long time, being going in the direction of creating a closed sphere of people where the fans are outside the sphere, paying money and having little or no say in anything.

From that point of view, Gaelic Games are on a par with soccer and behind rugby, where public and professional opinion is accepted a lot quicker.

I have no problem with the coverage of the games, but there is a tendency towards 'look at us aren't we great' in the GAA which keeps the public out. You only have to look at what tweets Des Cahill reads out on the Sunday game. All from ex or current players, little or nothing from people like us on this message board. When you hear the disdain that people like Colm Parkinson have for this message board, it suggests to me that this 'bubble' in which soccer players are accused of living is there in county level GAA also.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6490 - 09/11/2015 11:32:56    1805535

Wrong again Ormond re "Not true that RTE will focus on the negative." That is exactly what they did on the round up of weekend Sports on the radio this morning. The GAA element was entirely about a melee in Kerry. No mention of any of the other club games while the Rugby element centered on excuses for some player leaving Connacht.

mod (Mayo) - Posts: 859 - 09/11/2015 17:54:28    1805705

RTE 1's coverage of the club games yesterday was excellent as usual with coverage and updates of all the games going on across the country

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4656 - 09/11/2015 18:42:09    1805720

RTE losing 6 nations to tv3. showing virtually no live rugby now.....

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/11/2015 14:52:36    1806454