Ritchie cork. Catch yourself on :) Again you ask why we inTyrone are not prepared to hang our player out to dry and why couldn't we have done it for the betterment of our game. Well why couldn't Cork gaa made an example of Shields a few weeks earlier? Why did the gaa not act with the Shields incident? If Shields had been made an example of then Mc Cann might not have reacted like he did at all. You are great at pointing blame and offering solutions just so long as it's not a Cork inconvenience. Fix it for next year,nobody from Tyrone would disagree with that.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 21/08/2015 13:49:23    1773825

This incident reminded me of the div 2 league final between Donegal and Monaghan, Rory Kavanaghs boot came off, Darren Hughes went over to prevent Kavanagh from putting him boot on. Kavanagh in response pokes the boot out at Hughes and minimally makes contact, Hughes drops like a rocket hit him in Charlies. http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/sport/gaelic-games/donegal-may-appeal-rory-kavanagh-s-red-card-1-6024285

The rules in my opinion are Black and white - Kavanagh was wrong, were there is intent and contact is made the rules apply - off ya go.
I wouldn't blame Hughes for falling, because contact was made even though it was minimal.

Now, in the Tyrone match, Hughes put a open hand into McCann's hair closed his fist and pulled down hitting McCann's Shoulder.
For me that is more than enough contact. Therefore the rules apply. Off ya go.

As for feigning injury or this simulation term - This to me only applies if no Contact is made! That is a dive in my book.
If the aggressor makes contact or there is intent..the rules apply.

The_viewer (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 21/08/2015 13:57:40    1773836

IsMise

I think you have to admit, it is up there with one of the most shameful things that's happened in the GAA for a while now. I don't think he should have been banned but it was actually embarrassing to watch over and over again and the fact that his thread is still highly active over the situation the GAA need to come up with a strategy and stick to it to cut this sort of thing out of the game. It is similar to the McManus tackle in 13 where the black card was introduced to cut out cynical play, deliberate body checks, trips and pull downs. So I think 2016 will introduce a penalty for "tricking" the ref. The only question is for stand alone referees at club and underage levels how is one person determine a dive or genuine foul after all it is difficult at senior inter county level with 7 officials.

Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 21/08/2015 14:01:39    1773839

The_viewer

This incident reminded me of the div 2 league final between Donegal and Monaghan, Rory Kavanaghs boot came off, Darren Hughes went over to prevent Kavanagh from putting him boot on. Kavanagh in response pokes the boot out at Hughes and minimally makes contact, Hughes drops like a rocket hit him in Charlies. http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/sport/gaelic-games/donegal-may-appeal-rory-kavanagh-s-red-card-1-6024285

The rules in my opinion are Black and white - Kavanagh was wrong, were there is intent and contact is made the rules apply - off ya go.
I wouldn't blame Hughes for falling, because contact was made even though it was minimal.

Now, in the Tyrone match, Hughes put a open hand into McCann's hair closed his fist and pulled down hitting McCann's Shoulder.
For me that is more than enough contact. Therefore the rules apply. Off ya go.

As for feigning injury or this simulation term - This to me only applies if no Contact is made! That is a dive in my book.
If the aggressor makes contact or there is intent..the rules apply.

I think a WUM has been born in the shape of the viewer...that last paragraph about if contact is made? Gaelic football is a contact sport, you cant expect everyone to drop like flies anytime someone touches them. You'd be better off playing basketball if thats the case.

I can see that you are looking at it from an even point of view bringing up the Rory Kavanagh incident, there has to be some sort application in the rulebook to determine what is the difference between a playful slap and intention to do harm to a player.

Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 21/08/2015 14:08:38    1773846

What will we all be talking about come Monday morning? Any predictions on the next controversy to surface itself over the weekend? Remember Tyrone ARE playing this weekend!!!!

martinprince (Tyrone) - Posts: 187 - 21/08/2015 14:20:51    1773863

Seanfinn, I don't see why you think Mickey Harte should have came out and waded the boot into McCann to "take the heat off his own back" as you said. Why do you think he should have done this? Mickey Harte is the Tyrone manager and has a duty of care over his players. Maybe he takes this duty more seriously than trying to pick up some cheap media Kudos. Had there not been such a fuss and had his player's name not been dragged completely through the dirt perhaps he would have been a little harder on him. Perhaps McCann might be a little harder on himself. But due to the over the top "burn him at the stake mob" perhaps he's more concerned about the state of mind of a young fella under his care. Maybe he's more concerned about the state of mind of his squad and the upcoming game. Who the hell would listen or want to play for a man that dumps you under the bus as soon as you make a bad mistake?
Ritchie, I don't buy into that nonsense of nothing wrong with a few digs as it's a man's game. Sure it should be a man's game but self praise is no praise and maybe we're not as hard as we like to make out. I've seen plenty of toe rags on the field who like to give digs but only if it's blind siding a player or on a young gausan. Some of the most cowardly acts I've seen on the field have been under the guise of it being a man's game.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 21/08/2015 14:31:58    1773879

Hard times Harte has a duty of care to his players but surely he also has a duty of care to the game itself, as does everyone who takes part in any way.
Martinprince if I was a betting man I'd say the next controversy may well involve the actions of a member of the Tyrone management team who is well known for entering the field of play during games and goading opposing players, iv even seen some Tyrone posters describe his actions as being out of order. This is something Harte could very easily sort out but again seems to either support it or just ignore it.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/08/2015 14:48:56    1773900

Of course Soma. But all that's wrong with what McCann did has been said and then some. He can't be too proud of himself either. Can't be nice to be in his shoes. If I was a friend, family member or manager of Tiernan McCann I wouldn't give a b*ll*x about paying lip service to an animal such as the media. I'd be more concerned on his state of mind and mental well being. The state of his hair is another matter :)

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 21/08/2015 15:02:20    1773914

Find_the_space

"Contact" as in relation to a striking offence or purposely making contact with the opponents head away from the play i.e a Playful slap. Certain players will always try to get other players sent off. It starts with slagging and then progresses to the nips, slaps and hair ruffling. Players will slag each other which is impossible to referee, but the ref can apply the black card if he hears any nasty comments and the black card should also apply to any nips and contact with then opponents head away from the play. In my opinion a Playful slap around the head is the action of a player WUM, who's trying to get a reaction from the opponent and get him sent off. The other way to deal with a player WUM is a good hard tackle which is within the rules, which thankfully is still practiced

My main point was if this happened in a div 2 league final we wouldn't have a 28 page thread, it's blown out of all proportion. McCann is not soley to blame, If he fell without any contact, then he would be a diver and deservedly should be suspended, but if contact
is made it's Hughes fault. Both McCann and Hughes were slagging/sledging, Hughes tried to get a reaction from McCann but he took it too far and it back fired on him. That's all there was to it. And that's the far as it should go. No need for trial by media or the CCCC looking to charge a player for bring the game into disrepute, because both players could be charged with that nonsense. Let the referee handle these incidents with more technology i.e TMO.

The_viewer (Donegal) - Posts: 11 - 21/08/2015 15:03:55    1773917

The_viewer
County: Donegal
Posts: 3

1773917 Find_the_space

"Contact" as in relation to a striking offence or purposely making contact with the opponents head away from the play i.e a Playful slap. Certain players will always try to get other players sent off. It starts with slagging and then progresses to the nips, slaps and hair ruffling. Players will slag each other which is impossible to referee, but the ref can apply the black card if he hears any nasty comments and the black card should also apply to any nips and contact with then opponents head away from the play. In my opinion a Playful slap around the head is the action of a player WUM, who's trying to get a reaction from the opponent and get him sent off. The other way to deal with a player WUM is a good hard tackle which is within the rules, which thankfully is still practiced

My main point was if this happened in a div 2 league final we wouldn't have a 28 page thread, it's blown out of all proportion. McCann is not soley to blame, If he fell without any contact, then he would be a diver and deservedly should be suspended, but if contact
is made it's Hughes fault. Both McCann and Hughes were slagging/sledging, Hughes tried to get a reaction from McCann but he took it too far and it back fired on him. That's all there was to it. And that's the far as it should go. No need for trial by media or the CCCC looking to charge a player for bring the game into disrepute, because both players could be charged with that nonsense. Let the referee handle these incidents with more technology i.e TMO.

Complete horses***e.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 21/08/2015 15:11:40    1773926

Hardtimes
County: Cavan
Posts: 283

Harte's statement to me sent out the wrong message. I didn't ask for him to burned at the stake or offered as a lamb to the gods of football merely that Harte should have stated 'we will deal with the matter' and acknowledge it was wrong and leave it at that. Offering up excuses like his age and Darren Hughes raising his hands just compounded the whole issue. It made Tyrone sound unapologetic and that there was a sliver of justification in McCann pathetic actions.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 21/08/2015 15:35:21    1773950

Find the space, you seem to have given some thought to how the game might be improved. Strangely you do not mention the contribution a team manager might make. Harte has brought great success to Tyrone and given them a self belief that will always make them very difficult to beat. He has shown himself to be a fine strategist and manager. The one downside is that during his tenure cynicism and gamesmanship have become endemic in Tyrone football and has led to them drawing criticism from all areas outside Tyrone. It would have been better if Harte and ex stars such as Canavan and Login had been more honest and fortright in their comments on McCanns theatrics. I hope that the Tyone ban on talking to the Southern media extends to their players talking to their opponents on Sunday. I hope that Tyrone concentrate on football and beat Kerry in a manner that will leave no room for criticism.

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 21/08/2015 15:45:34    1773956

Ok Seanfinn that's a fair enough reply. I didn't pick that up in your other post. I do get the point but maybe he gave McCann a private dressing down or maybe after having a word with him and seeing what effect the whole thing had on him he felt it more important to show the lad a bit of moral support in the media. We don't know but what I do know is Mickey Harte's immediate concern is a game with Kerry and putting out the best team he can. And I'm sure he cares about his players first and foremost. Maybe he'd rather take a bit of the flack off his player at the expense of his own public image.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 21/08/2015 16:04:42    1773974

I think this post has about run outta steam at this point. Now at 28 pages and climbing and having watched / read with interest and dismay I can only conclude that a serious number of posters on here have pathetic lives, aren't allowed to over rule their other halves at home, have serious issues about being outraged at something that happened on tv, or all of the fore mentioned. I suggest you all take yourselves by the hand for a good long walk to cool the jets. Answer me this, which of the following has brought disrepute to the GAA, T Mc Cann's dive, the shields incident, the Galway full backs rugby spear tackle on Callannan, the incident of David Byrne having to spend time in hospital the performance of the referrees or any other numerous incidents either televised or not? Until the GAA bring in video recording of ALL games and have a dedicated group to analyse every game from from div 3 up and bring in watertight rules and proper sanctions that can't be over ruled on technicalities or loop holes then they are open to all the criticism they deserve. They've been around long enough that the rule book should be updated to deal with the changing games of the association. Why does it take so long to change things, call disciplinary hearings etc? On the other hand the slapping of an 8wk ban on TMCC has given them {possibly } the opportunity that they have been waiting for { getting the ball rolling }to stamp out the cynicism, cheating, gamesmanship or whatever you want to call it. Will see yellow, black, red cards being issued over the next 2 games for the feigning etc that the rules are already there for? Looking forward to 2 good games with the game played the way it's supposed to be. Seriously folks it's getting boring. The amount of moral grandstanding and blinkered outrage is ridiculous. If you are going to call out cheating, cynicism, gamesmanship, ducking, diving or theatricals, call THEM ALL out and not just be outraged by 1 incident. On a side note, how long will it be till RTE are no longer relevant or showing GAA the way the out dated analysis and self promotion from the guests compared to the up to date informed analysis from the SKY pundits. Lastly where have the GPA been during all this, with the public lynching of a young AMATEUR player who made a mistake or do they only shout if it's a high profile player who can get them publicity, or do they not want to rock the cosy relationship with Croke park?

ubahdaur (Tyrone) - Posts: 6 - 21/08/2015 16:07:32    1773975

Neverright
"Find the space, you seem to have given some thought to how the game might be improved. Strangely you do not mention the contribution a team manager might make. Harte has brought great success to Tyrone and given them a self belief that will always make them very difficult to beat. He has shown himself to be a fine strategist and manager. The one downside is that during his tenure cynicism and gamesmanship have become endemic in Tyrone football and has led to them drawing criticism from all areas outside Tyrone. It would have been better if Harte and ex stars such as Canavan and Login had been more honest and fortright in their comments on McCanns theatrics. I hope that the Tyone ban on talking to the Southern media extends to their players talking to their opponents on Sunday. I hope that Tyrone concentrate on football and beat Kerry in a manner that will leave no room for criticism."

I'm not sure if you know the reason why Harte's not talking to RTE (Not all Southern Media) but I think his reasons for that choice are 100% acceptable but im not here to discuss that.

Do you actually believe that Mickey Harte plans the cynical-ism? Up until the QF Tyrone were merely unnoticed as AI contenders yea they'd do well to get to the AI SF against Kerry the Donegal game and the birth of Sledging which apparently only Tyrone players participated in. went quit throughout June and July then Tiernan McCann makes a tube out of himself and the uproar begins again.

Mc Cann diving - Mickey's Fauly
Sean Cavanagh dragging down McManus in 13 - Mickey's Fault
Finlay punch Cavanagh - Mickey's Fault
Rain over the summer - Mickey fault
Pidgions on Croke Park - Mickeys fault
Garth Brooks Cancelling his show - Def Mickey's fault

Do you honestly believe that mickey harte goes out and tells them to take a dive, to take their time if they are in anyway hurt or tired have a few seconds recover and get up again and back at it? I'm sure if you look at the average distance covered by players per game Tiernan McCann, Darren McCurry, Mark Bradley would but up there. Cavanagh stopped Monaghan scoring a goal that probably would have gave monaghan the momentum and the lead in that game. If he did it again I would still defend him, I would not however defend McCann if he done what he did against Monaghan again and I am not even defending him now I want the GAA to come up with a deterrent and stand by it during off-season.

I honestly think that Tyrone will go out on Sunday and put out a very dogged performance against Kerry which was good enough throughout the naughties without any stupid headlines. Well except the "blanket defense" when we swamped Kerry in a convincing 0-13 to 0-6 scoreline, they didn't know what to do with themselves or the ball it was tackling in numbers at its finest.

Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 21/08/2015 16:16:13    1773985

Excellent post Ubahdaur but you may have just added a few more pages :)

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 21/08/2015 16:21:11    1773988

I posted here earlier on the strange silence of the Farrellites in all this.

Surely the GPA has a duty of care to all its players?
Or does it not matter as long as the sponsorship keeps rolling in.

BIG SACKS (Tyrone) - Posts: 1681 - 21/08/2015 16:34:59    1773995

ubahdaur
County: Tyrone
Posts: 2

1773975
I think this post has about run outta steam at this point. Now at 28 pages and climbing and having watched / read with interest and dismay I can only conclude that a serious number of posters on here have pathetic lives, aren't allowed to over rule their other halves at home, have serious issues about being outraged at something that happened on tv, or all of the fore mentioned. I suggest you all take yourselves by the hand for a good long walk to cool the jets. Answer me this, which of the following has brought disrepute to the GAA, T Mc Cann's dive, the shields incident, the Galway full backs rugby spear tackle on Callannan, the incident of David Byrne having to spend time in hospital the performance of the referrees or any other numerous incidents either televised or not? Until the GAA bring in video recording of ALL games and have a dedicated group to analyse every game from from div 3 up and bring in watertight rules and proper sanctions that can't be over ruled on technicalities or loop holes then they are open to all the criticism they deserve. They've been around long enough that the rule book should be updated to deal with the changing games of the association. Why does it take so long to change things, call disciplinary hearings etc? On the other hand the slapping of an 8wk ban on TMCC has given them {possibly } the opportunity that they have been waiting for { getting the ball rolling }to stamp out the cynicism, cheating, gamesmanship or whatever you want to call it. Will see yellow, black, red cards being issued over the next 2 games for the feigning etc that the rules are already there for? Looking forward to 2 good games with the game played the way it's supposed to be. Seriously folks it's getting boring. The amount of moral grandstanding and blinkered outrage is ridiculous. If you are going to call out cheating, cynicism, gamesmanship, ducking, diving or theatricals, call THEM ALL out and not just be outraged by 1 incident. On a side note, how long will it be till RTE are no longer relevant or showing GAA the way the out dated analysis and self promotion from the guests compared to the up to date informed analysis from the SKY pundits. Lastly where have the GPA been during all this, with the public lynching of a young AMATEUR player who made a mistake or do they only shout if it's a high profile player who can get them publicity, or do they not want to rock the cosy relationship with Croke park?

Very good post.

Listen it doesn't matter what Tyrone do or to a lesser extent Donegal . The perception these counties have is negative and it wont ever change unless we are getting hammered regularly.

What McCann done was embarrassing. Our own Donegal player dived in 2011 and it was also cringe .

What I cannot get is the lack of equality that the GAA media give out.

Galway's discipline V Leitrim and Mayo barely got a mention on TV. What about Lundys acting in the club final ?

Boylan's Meath and Morgans Cork could do what they like and its classed as ' real hard men stuff'.

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 21/08/2015 16:41:05    1773999

ritchie
County: Cork
Posts: 279

1767936 anto_meath
County: Meath
Posts: 19

Jasus they were epic times werent they. Now those teams hated each other . If you took a dive in one of those games your own team would batter you for showing weakness to the other time. The hits belt and tackles were serious from both sides. And when they talk about modern rivalry they should remember cork v meath .. they hated each other shur jasus they didnt really speak to each other till they finally shared a drink at the funernal of John Kierns years later.

You whinge ad nauseum about the supposed state of modern day football and then fondly recall the days when men were men and sheep were afraid !!!! A dive was most certainly frowned upon in those games but taking the head off a man with a snaky elbow was actively encouraged. Either way is bad sportsmanship.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 21/08/2015 16:46:19    1774003

I think the GPA have completely lost their direction, if they ever had an honest one. They spend more energy campaigning for things that have nothing to do with the game than representing players rights. Jokers

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 21/08/2015 16:58:36    1774010