I don't see the big issue here,mayo wasted time and pulled players dowm where possible in the last 10/15 mins of '12 semi final.in the '13 final dublin also done the same through systematic dragging down of players before attacks were able to break.

It's not pretty but in both instances it was a means to an end,both were guilty.whichever team gets into a winning position down the straight the next day I'd expect is going to do the same again.

The_purist (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 13/08/2015 18:31:01    1769665

County: Mayo
Posts: 13549

1769475
I actually read the article. O'Se doesn't give a single example at all. What were these 4 big decisions in the first half? Whatever they are, Id argue that the 45 Dublin got at the end of the game that was actually a wide - which cluxton kicked over the bar, was bigger than any of them. Id argue O'Carroll not getting the line, for attacking an injured player on the ground was also a massive call - probably the biggest in the entire game. He also seems more interested in making the point that Dublin would have gotten these calls the year before than anything else - when they happened to beat Kerry in the final in dodgey circumstances. I have to say, I think that is a very poor article, not backed up with anything concrete at all.

Now I don't deny mayo stood in front of frees, had a few pushing and shoving matches - same as everyone does. But this thing of feigning injury is what I have taken issue with as it simply isn't true. They were all subbed.

--------
Of course they were subbed. Isn't that the object of the exercise when you are holding on for dear life late into an important match. Any perceived 'poorer footballer' replacement can sit inside the parallelogram and pull opposition players down, as Mayo did. There's no great skill in that.

1 Hit the deck holding some part of your anatomy and grimace.
2 Wait for physio, 30 second jog to injuried party, and spend 90 seconds pretending to discuss your welfare
3 Come to a fake conclussion that you can't continue and ask physio to contact bench to warm-up a replacement
4 Spend 30 seconds hobbling off supported by the physio

BINGO, a full 3 to 3 and a half precious minutes wasted and opposition rythym broken.

How many injured parties were replaced. Let's presume 3 but could be more. That must have been about 12+ minutes wasted. Honest Joe wouldn't have added 12 no matter how many cups of tae he was given at our A v B games.

This would certainly explain the 17 or so minutes of play in the second half. Are you saying that these stalling tactics were not premeditated? Surely not.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 13/08/2015 18:48:04    1769672

purist


100% correct - and guess what, the team that does all that pulling and dragging will have a much higher foul count.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5304 - 13/08/2015 19:16:05    1769676

Alex Ferguson once came out and said that United didn't get a fair shot from the Premier League referees. The BBC joked about it for days. I have to say the Dublin posters on this forum are starting to sound just like him. For God's sake lads, the last 3 All Irelands ye have won have been by a single point and all 3 are shrouded in controversy! Ye got incredibly unlucky over the years, particularly mid 00s, (Cosgrave hitting the post, Maurice Fitz wonder point, Mugsy's goal, Cluxtons moments of madness, etc.) but when it comes to refereeing decisions, you have gotten far more than your fair share!

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5304 - 13/08/2015 19:28:53    1769684

So joxer, you think taking off 5-6 of your best 15 and replacing them with lesser players is a good way to stay ahead in a game?

Are there any genuine dubs who are willing to put their head above the paraphet here and call this out?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 13/08/2015 19:34:02    1769685

Tough break on the ref Mayo lads...

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 13/08/2015 19:40:30    1769688

I like to see the GPS for mayo physio.must have covered more ground than Mayo and Dublin players in that game

HughHunt24 (Cork) - Posts: 841 - 13/08/2015 20:18:39    1769710

JayP, the gospel according to a Kerryman with Kerry still in the championship? Dara's trying to stir things a bit. I'd rather stick by the facts and my own memory, you're free to go your own way. He must have a preference for a Dubs win this time... he knows we owe them bigtime.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 13/08/2015 20:33:26    1769725

New page, so what do you think of O Se now Master? Should we reference his excellent points or ignore him? It's so confusing?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8458 - 13/08/2015 21:12:13    1769759

@TheFlaker

TheMaster generally ignores the opinions of everybody else and states his opinion as FACT.

TheMaster, answer me why there was only 17 minutes play in the 2012 semi......Joxer pointed this out to you, and I have pointed it out to you over the last couple of years when you are on your Dublin rants.

If there is only 17 minutes of play in the game, and Dublin are chasing the game and trying not to commit frees, what team was time wasting. You obviously are in cloud cuckoo land if you think Mayo weren't time wasting. It was hugely obvious.

As I have stated before, Mayo were so good first half, I couldn't believe they didn't push on at the start of the second half and put Dublin to the sword. Instead we got players lying down pretending to be injured.

I pointed out about the corner back after a Dublin wide having a chat with the keeper. Your reply was maybe he was saying he was injured. So him lying down holding his face writhing around in pain without a touch was delayed reaction??? Are you kidding me. Stop embarrassing yourself saying that the lads were genuinely injured. They were gassed yes. Injured No. Like your views are so childish.

Lets face it.....anybody with a brain watching that second half knows darn well Mayo were feigning injuries and time wasting. Look TheMaster, you are from Mayo, you hate Dublin. We get that. BUT......

Your opinion isn't fact. You saying maybe he was this....maybe he was that......is all conjecture. None of it is ACTUAL fact.

You are like I have presented zero facts. Look Darragh O'Se gave his opinion on that semi final in 2012. And he pretty much thinks what most people watching that game thought. Mayo had a good first half.....ran out of steam and then starting time wasting.

Like 17 mins of play....how can you even argue they weren't time wasting. Its a ridiculous argument.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 13/08/2015 21:31:53    1769780

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 13555

1768831
clondalkindub, Id agree with a lot of what dara o'se says about the mcgees. Although I would also point out that every word of it applies to ger cafferkey v donaghy last year also - and there was only one of him in that battle. People are too quick to get on their backs.


JayP he seems to agree with Dara on this one but two pages later his opinion doesn't matter hahaha

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 14/08/2015 08:04:53    1769816

This thread has been hijacked by silly bickering. Everybody time wastes and breaks play when ahead, part and parcel of the game. I will remind you of that three quarters of those frees happened in the last 10 minutes where the Dublin performance was more akin to rugby than football. However, we would have done the same, it's a tactic to win, same as us breaking play when we could.

I see a real tactical developement this year. I will also admit I was one of the most staunch Kevin McStay advocates, but the lads are doing what everybody could see for the last three years.Back to the game, it is almost impossible to call, it's a game of tiny margins, I believe if Mayo can stop Dublin getting goals, we have every chance to beat them.

The opposite is also true, if Dublin are allowed play their own running game, they are unstoppable. I would be thinking we will not go man for man as that will play right into Dublins hands and I could see them beating us.I don't think this will happen though. It will be a very tight game and I could see a point or two either way, which is why the referee is crucial. Look, to call a spade a spade Joe McQuillan is/was far too involved with Dublin to be reffing in games at the business end involving them. If you can't see that this familiarity ends up in sub concious favouritism you are mad in the head. But I feel the Mayo management are cute enough to make sure they will highlight in the media the relationship between Dublin and Mc Quillan. To be honest, I'd take Mc Auillan any day over Marty Duffy.

I think the game is as close to 50/50 as you are going to get. Hopefully it falls our way and hopefully the ref doesn't even come into the conversation.

goinwellintrain (Mayo) - Posts: 96 - 14/08/2015 09:43:54    1769875

@goingwellintrain

The 2012 semi final McQuillan was so biased towards Mayo it was shocking. This was down to James Horan public allegations the McQuillan was reffing Dublin in-house games. No actual evidence was provided to support this. It didnt matter, it put sufficient pressure on McQuillan and made him favour Mayo. To be honest, James Horan played a blinder.

The 2nd half in 2012 was a terrible spectacle. Mayo dived and play acted, feigned injury and time wasted. 17 minutes of play in that half. For anybody with a brain to try explain it as anything other than time wasting obviously has never played/coached at any decent level in sport.

Pat McEnanay travelled numerous times to Tyrone training sessions to help them understand legal tackling in the noughties. Nobody ever accused him of favouring Tyrone. Like Mayo, Kerry, Dublin and Tyrone are gonna spend a fortune preparing teams......then let the bus driver ref in training? These want the best refs..... refs need to ref top class games where there is high intensity and tough tackling. If Mayo played Cork tomorrow in a challenge game and McQuillan reffed..... does that mean hes biased towards Mayo?

I think the upcoming game is strange. Mayo look great...... but they have looked great against teams who didnt play well. Dublin have done their usual demolition job on Leinster.

I think Dublin will win.....I think O'Carroll is capable of holding out O'Shea but I think Dublins forward unit will occupy Mayos running backs and peg them back into their own half.

Interesting game though.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 14/08/2015 11:28:30    1769975

Mayo absolutely time wasted in the second half of the 2012 games, especially in the dying minutes, and I for one was delighted to see them doing it. All the top teams do it, and for years Mayo had been looked on as a nice bunch who play lovely football but were naive in other aspects, not anymore. And if we did the same thing this year and got over the line I would be delighted again. Win at all costs, that's my motto!

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8458 - 14/08/2015 11:36:24    1769987

JayP - You must have lost a poer of cash on the 2012 game because at every opportunity you are whinging about it. Ye have won 2 recent All Ireland's we have not, et over it. The better team won that day. As regards the big one in 2 weeks, I think it is very balanced, "holding O'Se is easier said than done. Dublin will do massive damage if allowed to run at our defense. MDM will play and from what I hear is raring to go. You say Mayo look impressive against bad opposition, so do Dublin all be it we have faced better teams so far than Dublin.
The "not tested" debate does not hold water with me though, Dublin are long enough in the tooth to fall for that and are a well tuned team.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11687 - 14/08/2015 11:38:30    1769991

Mayo by 3. Should be a cracking contest between two evenly matched teams.

ShortGrass_1 (Kildare) - Posts: 223 - 14/08/2015 11:41:58    1769995

JayP, I agree about the diving and time wasting, but are you forgetting the end of the game where the Dubs were literally just rugby tackling people, lying on top of them etc, there are no Angels at the top, don't cod yourself on that! I have no bother discussing cynical play, but it is pointless discussing it if the Dub fans are just going to be like we don't do anything wrong!

You are right in what you are saying about top referees reffing challenges! But there is a big difference in reffing the challenge matches and being in and around the set up every training reffing! I'm not sure if it still goes on, but I know from a member of the panel that it did up to 2013 anyway! He is then a member of the panel! Again, we all look at things through rose tinted glasses to our own county, but the fact is Dublins tactic was to stop Mayos running game that day by fouling up the field. This is why the free count was so high! He has been hugely bias toward Dublin, everybody outside Dublin knows it and has stated it on here, including a full thread in his own county, now surely it's not a case the whole country is wrong and Dublin are right again is it?

Yeah, it is very hard to know, Donegal were a spent force, so we don't really know how good we are and I think the same goes for Dublin! I think we will play a sweeper and ye will drop the extra man back in front of the full back line. It would be suicide by Gilroy not to. Fair enough O'Carroll might win some good ball against O'Shea, but he is going to win some ball too, and when he turns and gets running nobody can argue he is borderline unstoppable! Another key match up is Keegan/Connolly.. Be very interested to see how that plays out, it is the most exciting game in years in my opinion though, so may unknowns and so many excellent man on man battles! Do ye think MDMA will start?

goinwellintrain (Mayo) - Posts: 96 - 14/08/2015 11:50:53    1770010

Jay p what are u basing your analysis that ROC will deal with OShea?. He's very dodgy under the long direct ball and when he's not protected by his team mates, also if Dublin forwards are going to go gung ho then I forsee Donegal all over again...they need too keep numbers back too mind the house..a system they certainly havnt perfected yet...Mayo by 1 or 2....also just toon note that mcquillan is again referee of Dublin game...it's a bit ridiculous at this stage. Even if he hasn't been favouring them...the same ref should not be appointed too one team so frequently

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 1016 - 14/08/2015 13:17:03    1770111

13/08/2015 17:05:54
CroiGorm
County: Dublin
Posts: 176

1769593
Yeah terrible news for Mayo. Refereed the last 3 All Ireland Semi Finals Dublin have been in and Dublin lost 2 of them. Clearly favours the Dubs.

Those 2 semi finals Dublin were beat out the gate, no matter who the ref was they would have lost. However the 2 All Irelands that Dublin won McQuillan gave them every decision. He clearly favours the Dubs.

IamADragon (Cavan) - Posts: 306 - 14/08/2015 13:27:09    1770121

Dublin got it so wrong last year, but it wasn't a sweeper system that caught Dublin out. Cooper played centre half forward and marked man to man. He got dragged out to midfield and left a gaping hole in the centre of defence. Donegal exposed Coopers naïvety and Jim Gavin didn't try fix the problem until the horse had bolted.

Just to point out to the Mayo posters, I only mentioned 2012 in response to the nonsense about saying McQuillan favours Dublin. He clearly doesn't. He has reffed 2 of Dublins 3 semi-Finals in 3 years.... And Dublin lost both. I mentioned McEnaney coaching tackling to Tyrone panels in the noughties. That was when Tyrone were at their peak. Yet his integrity was never questioned. The mention of the 2012 semi-final was just to point out McQuillan done Dublin no favours and let Mayo waste time and feign injury. Not blaming Mayo, they can try see out the game any way they wish. The ref is supposed to do his job. Down to an accusation by Horan, McQuillan was compromised by that and had a nightmare. He didn't do his job. I didn't have any money on that game, I was disappointed as a paying customer that only 17 minutes of play occurred. Last year Dubln lost to Donegal, I haven't blamed the ref for that loss! Clearly people only read what they want to.

Mayo are good value for their semi final spot. But again posters on here can be idiots. I think Mayo haven't really played anybody, Donegal struggled with Galway for 50 minutes. Watching that game, I just felt Donegal were lacking intensity. I fancied Mayo to beat them. And watching the game I felt Mayo were never in trouble. It was a routine performance. Dublin have done the usual demolition job on Leinster and then had a routine quarter win. That makes the semi final interesting. Neither side has come up against a side as good as their semi final opponent. O'Shea is a man mountain, but O'Carroll plays well against big lads......very few have ever got the better of him. Dublins attacking unit is a force, and will run at Mayo. Connolly is the best footballer in the country. Mayo can't go Man to Man. They will definitely play with sweepers. Dublin won't kick to midfield from kick outs. They'll find Flynn and Connoll. MDMC will start, and Seamie O'Shea doesn't like chasing midfield runners (2013). It's gonna be tight, whoever wins. I think Dublin have a little bit more all over the pitch. Bernard is looking hungry. Dublin will be very motivated. They are lacking O'Gara's unorthodox presence and size up top. Missing Ger Brennan's experience too.

Should be a good match. But Jesus lads........stop waffling on about the ref!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 14/08/2015 14:06:16    1770177