Any1 who know me on here knows I love cork football and hurling , they are my second favourite team after my beloved kingdom, now I have given cutburth a hell of a lot of stick on this forum but last nights cork defeat does not lye at his door it lyes at the door of my county, we have to put our hands up in the kingdom and say we cheated the shit out of cork in the drawn game diving for penalties sledging players blocking runners shouting at the reff and in fairness cork should have won that game by 4-5 points, then the replay being on in Killarney was a pure joke , in fairness it should have been thurles but you know us hungrey Kerry feckers any chance to make a few bob. But anyway No way should any blame be put on the superb cork footballers and management team how could any team come back from that type of setbacks. Cork will be back stronger next year.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 26/07/2015 15:13:46    1759170

Again

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1079 - 26/07/2015 15:23:38    1759174

It would be easy to just wrap Corks performance as another huge fail but I don't think you can underestimate the importance of momentum and mental strength in Gaelic football. Cork have players that some teams could only wish for. To see such a pathetic attempt to keep themselves in the championship really makes me wonder where their intensity and their effort lies. I don't think Cuthbert can be criticised too much, its up to the players to put in the effort. The difference between the performance yesterday to the one in the first match against Kerry is there for all to see. I don't know how you can coach into players, a lot of whom have been around a long time, to be able to bounce back from not winning games like the first Munster final match, lose the replay and be ready and able to do it all again a week later against a team who managed to get some confidence back in their team.
Since 2010, Cork have gone on an awful downward spiral which is so surprising considering that they're nearly guaranteed a quarter final every year such is the format of the championship. But it's amazing what a cut of confidence can do to a team. Just look at the turnaround in Kildare since the humiliation against Dublin. I'm not saying that Kildare are good enough to win Sam but they've shown that they're not as bad as other performances suggested. If you look at the experience on that Cork team, there is no reason why they should be struggling when it comes to mental fitness or character to pick themselves up and try again. Ok, the loss to Kerry was heartbreaking, but they play them every year and lose more often than not so is it simply that they can't pick themselves back up mentally? We've seen Cork annihilate teams in the past, yeah they've lost some quality over the last couple of seasons but there's a strong team there.
Perhaps they might be better off, going out of the Munster championship and concentrate on building momentum in the qualifiers, it might just get the best out of them

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 26/07/2015 16:52:09    1759245

I heard a good point on the radio this morning. Why did the Munster council allow the final replay to be 2 weeks after the drawn game ?. In hindsight it was a strange decision, it gave little chance for the defeated team to regroup. 7 days after two titantic games, was tough. There will be some difference from Donegal next week who have had 2 weeks.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 26/07/2015 17:06:00    1759254

I think the reason for not having it the following week had something to do with TV coverage (clashing with sky), though I'm open to correction on that

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 1079 - 26/07/2015 18:55:06    1759318

I'm surprised how many people are rushing to praise the quality of footballers at Cork's disposal, and the tremendous potential that they supposedly possess. I posted on here several weeks ago that I don't actually think Cork have many quality footballers at all, certainly nowhere near as many as they had 5-6 years ago. To my eyes, they have a couple of excellent players, a couple more very good players, and a large number of extremely average players who wouldn't get close to starting for most of the other big sides. Their defence, in particular, is completely bereft of talent.

The manager is always the easy target at times like this and, while Brian Cuthbert may not be among the top managers in the game, his players aren't that good either.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 26/07/2015 19:41:28    1759339

As a Galway supporter I am delighted with Galway's progress in football and hurling. Cork GAA have a new stadium to look forward to the redeveloped Parc Ui Chaoimh. So it is not all bad news.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2664 - 26/07/2015 19:59:39    1759350

Thomas Clarke

You make good points and you are right to question this assertion especially given that we have just been hammered by a Division 2 team.

I would say the following and feel free to disagree with some of the points:

1. We have more players than everybody else - this is fact so you cannot disagree with this point (though obviously this is quantity not quality)
2. I would argue that proportionally speaking, the levels of talent would be broadly similar in every county. ie there would be some outstanding players, some average, some below average. As a result then we should nominally have the largest pick of top quality footballers to pick from - when I say this I am talking about the raw potential - ie two footed, physical committed footballers.
3. If point 2 is true or vaguely true, then it comes down to how we manage and harness that talent. If pont 2 is true, then at senior intercounty level we are not doing well at all in this regards.

I would argue that 3rd level football is the next best thing to senior intercounty football. Over the last few years both UCC and CIT have been there or thereabouts toward the end of this competition. They are mostly populated with Corkgain players. We should have enough here to be able to mould a team. again, it seems we have failed.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 26/07/2015 20:32:54    1759377

If it wasn't for the ref handing Kerry a draw in the first game and buying the dive by JOD like so many refs before him

People would be talking about Cork winning the All Ireland

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2015 20:39:01    1759380

Against Kildare

Cork were shocking and completely let themselves down

Worst Cork performance for a very long time

With the calibre of player they have...

Their performance was terrible and reflects terribly on them as a panel

Inexcusable

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 26/07/2015 20:51:52    1759391

Considering today's hurling result, it could be argued that the state of football in Cork is actually in better shape than the hurling. After all, the footballers were within seconds of being Munster champions.

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 26/07/2015 21:43:30    1759422

bennybunny
County: Cork
Posts: 2888

Thomas Clarke

You make good points and you are right to question this assertion especially given that we have just been hammered by a Division 2 team.

I would say the following and feel free to disagree with some of the points:

1. We have more players than everybody else - this is fact so you cannot disagree with this point (though obviously this is quantity not quality)
2. I would argue that proportionally speaking, the levels of talent would be broadly similar in every county. ie there would be some outstanding players, some average, some below average. As a result then we should nominally have the largest pick of top quality footballers to pick from - when I say this I am talking about the raw potential - ie two footed, physical committed footballers.
3. If point 2 is true or vaguely true, then it comes down to how we manage and harness that talent. If pont 2 is true, then at senior intercounty level we are not doing well at all in this regards.

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I'd agree with all of that. Cork have a huge pool to draw from and they should always be able to challenge for AI semis and finals. Perhaps Cork GAA is losing some of that talent to rugby/soccer or other pastimes, or perhaps they just aren't coaching and developing it properly. Maybe it's both. Whatever the reason, I don't think that a new manager alone is likely to prove to be a fix-all remedy that returns the footballers to the top of the pile 12 months from now. In my opinion, the identification, attraction and development of talent should be the main focus.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 26/07/2015 21:58:50    1759426

Bad year for Cork but they can put it right. They could and possibly should have beaten u last year in the quarter. Cork on their day and play fantastic and beat most teams but for some reason can't string 2/3 quality performances together.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11773 - 27/07/2015 09:05:02    1759457

Cork will be fine. any defeat to a non Div 1 side provokes hysterical over reaction like the title of this thread. Cork will remain a Div 1 team and will likely be at QF or further stage for the next 10 years. They had a bad night but also had a black card, lost their midfielder, and 6 day turnaround. And not the first big team to be caught in the qualifiers, it happens. Nobody saying RIP Armagh football but they beat nobody, and Down exited early. Cork are dead but Galway not won a Connaught title in 5 years are a team on the rise!! Guys need to relax and take 48 hours before rushing to the keyboard!

switec (Kildare) - Posts: 525 - 27/07/2015 09:39:52    1759472

To me I'd put a lot of blame at the feet of the manager (and his selectors)

It's always hard to know with GAA managers is it a case of the players or the manager but overall I have seen nothing from Cuthbert and his team where they were in charge that I could point to and say - that was decent management, while there has been a lot that has been very questionable (publicly blaming the players after last year's Munster final and then go on radio and say they knew there were problems in Cork's defensive setup after 15/20 minutes but decided to wait until half-time to change things was one of the worst single incidences of management I have seen in a long-time.

The fact that 2 years into his reign Cork seem to have no proper decent coherent game plan in terms of how to get any sort of ball into Colm O'Neill is just shocking stuff. If O'Neill was on one of the top teams (Dublin/Kerry/Mayo/Donegal/Monaghan) getting quality ball to him would be a major focus of the attacking game-plan. As it it he has to make do with a meagre supply of poor quality hit and hope ball.

besidetheditch (Dublin) - Posts: 81 - 27/07/2015 11:44:18    1759582

kerrrowz

Spot on there what you said about John Cleary but I am going to tell you something that you do not probably know the reason why John Cleary did not get the job in the first place was because he is a West Cork man simple as that

Redhot (Cork) - Posts: 739 - 27/07/2015 12:20:53    1759618

Redhot
County: Cork
Posts: 639

1759618
kerrrowz

Spot on there what you said about John Cleary but I am going to tell you something that you do not probably know the reason why John Cleary did not get the job in the first place was because he is a West Cork man simple as that

Not true.

Don Davis, Eoin Sexton, Ciaran O'Sullivan are all there..

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 27/07/2015 12:29:00    1759622

Bit of an over reaction imo, similar to the over reaction re the demise of Donegal.

The six day turnaround certainly didnt help Cork, losing loughrey so early in the game also deprived them of prob their best defender/man marker.

I do feel though they lack some really top class defenders which would have hampered them if they had beaten kildare and progressed further, im not sold on Shields for example and I think Cadogan is a better hurler. Conversely I think Walsh is a better footballer than hurler although hes a superb athlete.

I have to say though as someone who has a bit of a soft spot for Cork GAA Id be more worried about the hurlers after yesterdays performance. Physically alone, Cork were too easy brushed off the ball and bar Harnedy and Kearney diddnt look up for the fight. Even Shane O'Neill who i think is an outstanding defender was poor imo yesterday particularly against when it came to his one on ones with Whelan.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 27/07/2015 12:49:21    1759644

Its probably a bit over the top to say Cork Football is RIP. I think Cork are operating at around their level. For years we heard of how good the Cork footballers are/ were and that they should have won more, I dont believe this to be true as that would mean Cork were better than the teams who actually played and won the All Ireland. They lost the 07 final, Tyrone and Kerry were in the 08 final, they lost the 09 final, Dublin and kerry played in 11, Donegal and Mayo in 12, Dublin and Mayo in 13, Kerry and Donegal in 2014. In none of those years were Cork better than the teams who played in the final. Cork have been consistent but I always felt Cork were always a little short when it came to getting over the line against the bigger teams.

For all the talk of the Cork players ability, how many of their players would be on the current Dublin/ Kerry/ Mayo teams. Not many I feel. Cork have a lot of average to good intercounty players but not enough good to very good players. They certainly have very few (if any) great ones.

The Kildare loss was poor, very poor. A loss which I think lays at the players feet. Cuthbert cant go out and play.

Defullback10 (Kerry) - Posts: 13 - 27/07/2015 13:37:09    1759673

Corks biggest problem is the lack of interest in the county, no supporters to lift them when things go wrong and no leaders on the pitch.

Alan O'Connor retired and came back. Aiden Walsh is the finest midfielder in the country but want to be an average hurler instead. Ciarán Sheehan is in OZ getting injured repeatedly. Add the retirement of Graham Canty, Alan Quirke, Pearse O Neill, Paudie Kissane and Noel O'Leary and your missing some serious leadership.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1600 - 27/07/2015 14:05:29    1759701