From reading another topic in the forum it seems Brian Cody is almost universally accepted as hurling's greatest manager. Who is his football equilivent, ie greatest football manager of all time ? For me there is 3 canidates. Heffo (invented the role of a modern GAA manager to which future GAA managers followed and manager of 3 time all Ireland winning team), O'Dwyre (enjoyed much more successs than any other manager and like Cody kept winning over a long period of time but had by far the most talented group of players ever) and Boylan (brought a team that was in dissaray to 4 all Ireland finals (including winning a 2 in a row) in 5 years and then built a new team and brought them to 3 finals in 6 years (winning 2). Had Kildare performed better in 98 final O'Dwyre would be the obvious choice but overall his long stay in Kildare produced mixed results.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 28/09/2014 15:22:09    1657686

mick o dwyer and after that the likes of micky harte jim mcguinness and sean boylan

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 28/09/2014 16:09:05    1657700

What about Dr Eamon O'sullivan , he managed Kerry to 8 allirelands in 4 different decades and only trained 1 losing team.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/09/2014 16:47:46    1657709

Boylan was good but he is not the best; his type of teams in 1996 especially left a lot to be desired; yes All Ireland winners but winning at all costs ? not the best way to win an All Ireland. He spent twenty years in Meath; give the likes of Mickey Harte twenty years. Pete McGrath beat him hands down tactically in the 1991 All Ireland final. Boylan a legend of the game but not in the same league as Micko, Heff, I agree he is in the same league as the likes of Jim Gavin, Mickey Harte, Joe Kernan, Pete McGrath, McGee, McEniff etc etc; (Great All Ireland winning managers).

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 28/09/2014 17:10:59    1657719

Mick O'Dwyer. The team he took over weren't that fancied at the time. They were very good footballers but he made them great footballers and a better than great team. No contest.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7984 - 28/09/2014 17:24:24    1657724

Eamonn Ryan of Cork based on the results for the Cork women over the last 10 years.

Would there ever be a chance he would get the mens job in Cork?

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 28/09/2014 17:29:10    1657728

MICKO!!!!

sob (Meath) - Posts: 492 - 28/09/2014 18:06:30    1657745

Micko would be my num 1.Sean Boylan would be second.A great man.Brought Meath from relative obscurity,to the countries dominant force.A quirky personality.An eccentric gentleman,who led a team of hardened warriors.4 All Irelands is a fabulous achievement.Micky Harte would make up my top 3.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 28/09/2014 18:38:14    1657759

Sam1884 (UK) You say Bolan is not up near the top and then list others as good who are as good as him. While I could have included Mickey Harte (and maybe Jack O'Connor) in list some of the others you mention don't even come close. While some like Jim Gavin and Jim McGuinness may achieve great things in future as of now they have achieved little compared to Boylan. You seriously rate one time all Ireland winners like Joe Kiernan and Brian McEniffe up there with Boylan ?. I think the biggest reason Meath lost to Down in 1991 was exhaustion after Meath Dublin 1991 saga and Colm O'Rourke (Texico player of the year 1991) getting pneumonia and not being able to play along with Mick Lyons first half knee injury forcing him out of game rather than Boylan being out thought by Pete McaGrath. If Sean Boylan was guilty of win at all costs tactics why don't you hold Heffo to the same standard ?. Is Jim McGuinness not also not guilty of win at all cost tactics with his awfal to look at all out defence tactics ?.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 28/09/2014 19:53:18    1657790

What about John O Mahony?

He achieved wonders with Galway,not forgetting his Connacht title with Leitrim

joeman123 (Leitrim) - Posts: 575 - 28/09/2014 20:22:37    1657803

That Boylan was there 20 years is a tribute to the man, should not count against him
Heffo was a class act as a player and manager but who's to say he would have won anothet All Ireland had he managed The Dubs for 20 years? He probably would have but the record shows he has 3 All Ireland's as manager while Boylan, unknown as a player I will add, has 4. Meath under Boylan were no shrinking violets but they had some class players and under his stewardship never gave up.

Although O'Dwyer is the greatest and Heffo and Boylan were legendary managers it's hard to beat what Mickey Harte achieved. Heavily involved in a long term plan for Tyrone football, bringing them under-age success, bringing the first senior All Ireland to Tyrone then winning two more in the same decade and still going. The man is one of the greats of the GAA and a gentleman.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7984 - 28/09/2014 20:48:59    1657825

Jim Gavin and McGuinness will not get the chances of those former greats : the game has moved on so much and commitment levels have moved to insane levels . I'd say if either Jim's got 20 years then they would deliver multiple All-Ireland's !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 28/09/2014 20:57:56    1657833

For me it is not MOD but Heffo and Mickey Harte. Why?

Heffo

He took on an ageing team and out of nowhere went on to change football (3rd midfielder etc). Dublin in '74 were in an even worse place than Donegal at the start of 2011. A division two team who were been beaten in Leinster by the likes of Louth etc. Last Division 2 team to win an All-Ireland. Huge shock to win in '74. Then in 83 went and did it again with a completely different team (bar the Panther and Mullins).

Mickey Harte

Because again build a team (and was part of building a structure) that would change the face of Gaelic Football. Implemented new tactics, that like Heffo, changed Gaelic Football. Whether you like the tactics or not is another issue.

So both changed the face of Gaelic Football.

O'Dwyer not to the same degree and he won his 8 with basically the same team built around the U21 success of '73 etC so he did not have far to bring the team like a Harte or a Heffo. Kerry in Munster had it as easy as Dublin in Leinster today

Boylan deserves the medal for battling away the longest to win an All-Ireland and may be a good example to some counties today.

Jim McG has the potential to join Harte and Heffo in my opinion when you consider how far he himself has brought the team, and could change Gaelic Football. Jim Glavin not to the same degree because like O'Dwyer before he has the resources, structure and winning mentality in the team already.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 29/09/2014 08:25:47    1657891

To win an all ire? You mean 4 all ire.
I think firstly to win back to backs is a criteria for greatest, that gets rid of a fair few.
But sean boylan is for me the greatest not cause of him managing Meath but he was a hurling man who turned to football and turned a bunch of underachieving lads into dominating football, then took a bunch of kids to do it again
The greatest of them all is sean.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/09/2014 09:43:41    1657920

One final thing sean won all his all ire within 14 years not 20. How long has Harte been in charge??

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 29/09/2014 10:00:00    1657929

I asked the question so I will give my opinion. Despite having the best players you still have give M O'D credit for keeping them winning at a rate that has never happened before or since. To keep players motivated for so long makes him the best. 8 AI's in 12 years including 7 AI's in 9 years is amazing.
I would put Heffo and Sean Boylan as joing second, Heffo as he was the first modern GAA manager who all others followed and Boylan as his initial successes were very good in themselves but his second spell with a new team proved his greatness.
Now time to put on my Meath scarf!
See comments about how long Boylan was Meath manager from Witnof, I think this is unfair.
You say Boylan did all this over 20 years and so it was easier for him to rack up 4 AI's. If you look at his record he was fairly consistent for a long number of years keeping Meath competitive for the big prize (see below). Mickey Harte who you said would achieve as much if he gets as much time has already been Tyrone manager for a long time (must be about 12 years ?) and while he has record in finals (3 from 3) is brilliant but other years his teams have made no impact on championship (I can only remember them getting to 1 other semi final where they were well beaten) Since last win in 2008 they have not done much despite Tyrone having some good underage teams. Mickey Harte has yet to prove he can bring through a second group of players and make them competitive for All Ireland.
When Boylan took over Meath the Meath team were at low ebb. Meath Club football took precedence and the best club in the Meath at the time would not release players for county training sessions. Boylan, a hurler got the job as there was no interest in position. It took Sean 5 (could be 4 but I think it was 5) years to win Leinster in 1986 (Meath's first since 1970). He won Meath's first All Ireland in 20 years in 1987. Between '87 and '91 they qualified for 4 finals winning 2. After this he built a new team which won All Ireland in '96 and '99. They were beaten finalists in 2001. After this he did not enjoy any more success. Most people in Meath regard the '96 to 2001 team as not nearly as talented as his earlier team and regard this success as showing what a good manager he was.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 29/09/2014 12:35:17    1658027

Very well said witnof. Agreed!

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 29/09/2014 12:44:10    1658032

Micko. He won 8 all irelands with kerry. Yeah he had great players but so does Cody/Harte etc.
Micko also significantly improved Kildare, Laois and Wicklow when he managed them.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 30/09/2014 19:55:50    1658759

Micko. Unquestionably.
All the others talked about here were great but he was the greatest.

KildareKelly (Kildare) - Posts: 593 - 30/09/2014 20:54:14    1658783

Brian Cody has operated in a 3 or sometimes a 2 team championship.
Micko had the greatest team of all time.
He also had a great Kildare team for a number of years and his greatness didn't shine through.
Boylan won multiple all Ireland's with 2 completely different teams in ultra competitive championships. 4 all Ireland's in 14 years is fair going for any county.
Mickey heart won his 3 with much the same team. If he was to win another then that would put him up there also.
Boylan shades it winning with different teams.
Nobody else has done it.

StopTheLights (Galway) - Posts: 407 - 01/10/2014 08:22:24    1658818