Samt2. Meath would have won ulster I'd say at least 3 times in that space of time. You say my posts are wrong yet going on your one Kildare would have won one as they reached a semi final. A tiny bit of research would have also shown you that in last 10 years Meath reached two all ire semi finals twice as many as Kildare. So using your own logic Meath would have won two. Oh BTW the beat the reigning Ulster and all ire champs Tyrone to reach one of them. At least try to use facts that are opposite to my opinion than ones that reinforce them.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/08/2014 08:31:26    1636061

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 413

1636007
Joxer - yous are just a superior group of people . Just try not to systematically injure Lacey this time .

---
We'll do that if you promise not to feign injury to get an opponent sent off.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 13/08/2014 09:06:05    1636074

Watched the 2012 All Ireland Semi between us and Cork last night. We are a pale shadow of that team. The intensity in the tackle and speed at which we got to the opposition when they attacked was immense. As soon as a Cork player received the ball two Donegal men were on him and when we got the ball the speed at which we attacked was fantastic. Colm Mc Faddens movement was brilliant, he had pace, strength and confidence. Karl Lacey and Mark Mc Hugh were also immense on that team and Lacey really looks to be constantly struggling with injuries now.
I went back to that game as I felt it was our best performance in 2012 and wanted to compare it to the 2014 version. We certainly don't have that intensity any more, we back off players now when they are coming through instead of pushing up on them like Dublin now do. We aren't breaking at pace now like we did then and we don't have Mc Fadden or anyone else in the full forward line firing like they did then.
Looking at that game last night I think that Donegal team playing this Dublin team would be an unbelievable game but we aren't anywhere like that team any more and thats why I think Dublin will beat us and probably by 5 - 10 points. I will ofcourse be emptying the lungs in support of our lads on that day and you just never know but I just can't see us winning this one.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 13/08/2014 11:18:18    1636140

Tir Conaill Abu that game against Cork was probably the best performance I've ever seen from a Donegal team. I think Colm O'Rourke actually said we had humiliated Cork that day despite the scoreline being closer than it should have following O'Neill's late goal.

I agree that we haven't really seen that level of intensity since and it's hard to see how they can recapture it in the space of a few weeks. But for some of the players, and possibly even Jim himself, this Dublin match could be the last hurrah. I expect to see a monumental effort put in by the players. If that isn't enough to topple Dublin the so be it.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9900 - 13/08/2014 12:05:49    1636185

bryanadams
County: Kildare
Posts: 503

1635901 Now as to what tactics Donegal can use in an attempt to upset the odds.

I think Donegal will have to line out with Murphy and McFadden/McBrearty in a two man full forward line. They will park the rest of the team behind their own 45, inviting Dublin to run at them and hoping for turnovers, resulting in quick delivery to Murphy and co.


I don't think Donegal are going to try that, that would be a little too predictable for Jim McGuinness.

Isolating your forwards won't cut it against Dublin, I would expect Donegal to play 2 full forwards up the field, and then 2 midfielders around the middle of the field.

Rather than trying to kick long like Monaghan, Donegal might try a 2 kick movements. Kick from defence to midfield, and from Midfield to the forwards. More accurate kicking shorter distance, and midfielders can possibly offload to a running half back if no option to kick in to the forward.

Colm McFadden isn't playing well at the moment, he is lacking movement and his shooting resembles a man low in confidence. Last season he was one of the few performers, but this year he isn't clicking. I don't think he lost his skill or that he is finished at this level, but I don't think he his recent performances warrant a starting place against Dublin.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 13/08/2014 13:47:31    1636321

As much as I would like Donegal to win it's not going to happen. Donegal are not at the same level of physical and mental intensity as 2012 and in reality if Armagh had taken advantage of their first half dominance and put more scores on the board they would have won handily enough. Players like Colm McFadden who was flying 2 years ago are just not at the same level now and he is missing a lot of points that went over the bar in 2012. Dublin are an intense machine now and their sheer physical superiority and fitness will ensure they win by at least 5 points.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9825 - 13/08/2014 14:19:27    1636359

Tir Conaill Abu
County: Donegal
Posts: 887

1636140
Watched the 2012 All Ireland Semi between us and Cork last night. We are a pale shadow of that team. The intensity in the tackle and speed at which we got to the opposition when they attacked was immense. As soon as a Cork player received the ball two Donegal men were on him and when we got the ball the speed at which we attacked was fantastic. Colm Mc Faddens movement was brilliant, he had pace, strength and confidence. Karl Lacey and Mark Mc Hugh were also immense on that team and Lacey really looks to be constantly struggling with injuries now.
I went back to that game as I felt it was our best performance in 2012 and wanted to compare it to the 2014 version. We certainly don't have that intensity any more, we back off players now when they are coming through instead of pushing up on them like Dublin now do. We aren't breaking at pace now like we did then and we don't have Mc Fadden or anyone else in the full forward line firing like they did then.
Looking at that game last night I think that Donegal team playing this Dublin team would be an unbelievable game but we aren't anywhere like that team any more and thats why I think Dublin will beat us and probably by 5 - 10 points. I will ofcourse be emptying the lungs in support of our lads on that day and you just never know but I just can't see us winning this one.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Agree completely with this. We look a lot more like the team that played Mayo last year than that vs Cork in 2012. Hopefully as Lockjaw said we can go to the well 1 more time but nothing I've seen this year suggests to me we are capable of that. Hope springs eternal though!

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1435 - 13/08/2014 14:55:55    1636383

I take no pleasure it knocking my own county however I cannot see up beating this Dublin side . If we drop 10-12 bodies behind the ball then that means we ain't contesting Cluxtons kickouts , that subsequently means Dublin will win 80-85% possession around the middle third. Even if we turn over Dublins possession 60% of the time , they will
Still get through enough scores to beat us. If we contest Cluxtons kickouts and lose the 3/4 of them then we are in for a hiding as Dublin will run riot. I do think though that although it's a gamble , we must contest them . No other side has tried it this year . The difference in 2011 and 2014 is that Jim Gavin's defenders will push up on our half forward line tracking back . That's why Murphy must stay in the conventional 14 position with help either side . People forget that Dublin are sublime at turning possession over them selves . The ONLY chance we have is a wet horrible day along with a master class performance by Murphy, McFadden and PMB! They are so many factors and avenues that Dublin can crucify a side !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 13/08/2014 15:07:04    1636397

Hopefully we can. I think I mentioned it earlier on this thread though that I reckon Dublin players are irritated by the suggestion that Jimmy's system could beat their method of playing. They could be out to prove a point and try to totally eviscerate us!

Jimmy has proven himself to be a shrewd tactician though and word is that he has been plotting for this match for quite a while even if he'd never publicly admit it.

From our point of view you'd hope that every man is injury free, match fit and ready to go to war for the cause. After that, what will be will be.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9900 - 13/08/2014 15:24:59    1636411

I think a lot of the Donegal lads are being overly pessimistic. Banter aside in posts above, my honest opinion is that this Dublin team is definitely beatable. I saw us well beaten up in Newry last year, down in Cork the previous and in Derry this year. I was in Ballybofey when we struggled to a draw last year and travelled to Castlebar in 2012 where Mayo hammered us by 12 points. More than half of the team that started the game last Sat played in that Castlebar game. Mayo executed the perfect game plan that day. They closed down Cluxton's kicks superbly well, forced him long and won every ball in the middle. I've never seen Cluxton so rattled. Mayo's forward line was at full strength and they kicked some great scores. Mayo and Kerry almost both pulled off the same gameplan last year against the Dubs, except this time, against Mayo, Dublin won the midfield battle. Against Kerry, Dublin unleashed a strong bench of fresh legs that just overran them.

I genuinely think that if Donegal were to attempt a full court press on Dublin and win the midfield joust then they could win the game. It would be a complete tactical reversal for McGuinness though but I think that if they revert to type and only engage Dublin in and around their own 45 then they will be beaten soundly. Dublin will not let them out of there so best to press Dublin back on their kickouts. Difference between now and 2011 is that Dublin also played a blanket and so invited Donegal on. They don't do that now. It will be high tempo, intense and Dublin will heavily engage a Donegal backs inside the Donegal 45.

Two very smart tactical managers, two very good teams, two contrasting styles. What's not to look forward to?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 13/08/2014 19:21:48    1636568

Joxer
County: Dublin
Posts: 1714


I can understand some Donegal fans fearing the worst, I don't think a pundit or bookie in the land who are backing Donegal to win.
Most experts are in agreement that Donegal are unlikely to win, with the question now being whether they will get hammered out the gate or lose by a narrow margin.

Personally I think they can win.

The bulk of their squad have won an All Ireland, and have valuable experience in big games. They have depth in their squad, and I think are a dangerous animal to write off.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 13/08/2014 21:00:22    1636618

Joxer - yes banter aside, we are so pessimistic. Out of the four years under Jim , there has never been such low hype about this side. Its not that we are playing it down , people just feel that this match is one to far. I was very confident all year that if we met that we could win it however after your recent maulings of Meath and Monaghan, I feel the worst. I cannot pick out an area of the pitch where we can dominate. Slagging aside, this is a super Dublin side. Although I have slagged myself in previous posts about Dublin , I dont go along with some peoples view that they are mere athletes. Paul Flynn and DC are as good wing forwards as ive ever seen. BB and AB are also as natural as they come. Jim Gavin has done very well to keep egos intact which is difficult in a big squad.

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 13/08/2014 21:17:53    1636633

Im just wondering from the Donegal lads , is it Dublins win over Monaghan that is bringing the pessimism or is it your performance in the Armagh game.
Before last weekend the mood was worlds different to what it is now, Could one game really have changed everyone so much ?

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 13/08/2014 21:25:30    1636636

AthCliath - I know it's a cliche but it's both . It's only taken until now for me to realise that we ain't nowhere near 2012. Dublin would batter Armagh whereas we struggled and were v lucky to win !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 13/08/2014 21:34:10    1636640

My biggest disappointment would be for Dublin to get an early lead, say six or seven points then WE would be up against it I want this game to stay close right to the end or the other thing I'd settle for is a good Donegal lead or For Donegal to score an early goal or two. We know what we are up against ( so will JMcG) but still we will live in hope Don't think we will throw in the towel handy and I'd expect a massive Donegal following on 31/08/14 plus we have the minors to support also.
We will come by Land, Sea and Air to support this great county and we won't worry about people predicting us getting hammered.
As we could get beat , as one poster already said it could be some of our senior players last time in Croker plus it could also be JIMS last time in charge. So it is a massive game.
There is no point in predicting what will happen as no one knows but what I do know :::We are privilaged to get a chance to play this great Dublin team and if they beat us they are an even Greater team.

Best of luck to DONEGAL , SENIOR AND MINOR.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 13/08/2014 21:34:17    1636641

Yeah lads, a lot of pessism around here...... Whilst we all were surprised at what looked a laboured win over Armagh on Saturday, Armagh are no Dublin but there a very decent team who are very fit and contested every single ball and above all they are another ulster team and when ulster teams face off then anything can happen and are always tight affairs...... I firmly believe we are going into this game in the perfect manner, every single body is writing us off, this is the game that Donegal have been wanting and waiting for,for a long time....Dublin probably the same in fairness........ We need to be at our absolute best and everyone fit to give ourselves a chance but I believe we will be,we have to trust and believe in this team again...... We are not back to last year,we are miles ahead of that..........we are not far off 2012, but there is another big performance brewing and I trust that Jim has the gameplan and the equipment to overturn what is a brilliant Dublin team........

Believe Boys........

ben1977 (Donegal) - Posts: 364 - 13/08/2014 21:39:39    1636644

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3312

1636636
Im just wondering from the Donegal lads , is it Dublins win over Monaghan that is bringing the pessimism or is it your performance in the Armagh game.
Before last weekend the mood was worlds different to what it is now, Could one game really have changed everyone so much ?

It was well before the dublin monaghan game for me. I saw dublin in the league final and they won by 18 points in second gear. Bus seeing as you mentioned our last game, I would not be one bit worried about how we beat armagh, or monaghan for that mater. They always have been bogie teams for us, and it is a plus to get past them no mater what. I think that winning against armagh was never going to be easy. They are a very tough team to put away for us and I would take an ugly game any day of the week provided we won it.

Over the past 24 hours, something tells me that we are going to put in a huge performance despite all the pessimism. I can only imagine the madness they are going through at training. It would be great for the game if it were the case, Dublin need opposition.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3853 - 13/08/2014 21:39:57    1636645

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3312

1636636
Im just wondering from the Donegal lads , is it Dublins win over Monaghan that is bringing the pessimism or is it your performance in the Armagh game.
Before last weekend the mood was worlds different to what it is now, Could one game really have changed everyone so much ?

For me it's our performance against Armagh. We had been on an upward curve since beating Derry in the first round but there were still things to improve on but that performance was a level below what we did in the ulster final.

In the 3 close games (derry, monaghan and armagh) we've had chances to kill off teams and win comfortably but we haven't done that. This won't be anywhere near good enough versus dublin.

Alvin (Donegal) - Posts: 218 - 13/08/2014 21:45:23    1636650

I was quite buoyed after 25 minutes of the Monaghan game.

Then once Dublin got the first goal they ran riot. Their athleticism and speed were really impressive. Their relentless pressure on the opposition was frightening.

I don't know where Jim will begin to counteract a this. But if anyone can he can.

Despite my pessimism I'll be there on the 31st roaring on donegal and hoping for the best.

Cleatus (Donegal) - Posts: 125 - 13/08/2014 22:03:25    1636662

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3312

1636636
Im just wondering from the Donegal lads , is it Dublins win over Monaghan that is bringing the pessimism or is it your performance in the Armagh game.
Before last weekend the mood was worlds different to what it is now, Could one game really have changed everyone so much ?

It was a combination of both but more so our performance against Armagh.

After the Ulster final I really thought we were in with a big shout but our wayward shooting, poor decision making & Colm McFadden's continuing poor form was sobering stuff.

I think our biggest fear lurking in the background is that we are going to be hockeyed out the door completely & that that will be the end of this team. After all they have given us, nobody here wants to see it end like that.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 14/08/2014 09:36:17    1636683