Torcaill
County: Australia
Posts: 7

Could they not have just lined up behind the correct flag?

The flag bearers were in the wrong place, the team lined out were they were supposed to.

Cavan did themselves more harm than anything else and armagh should've known better but all in all it was much a do about nothing. Good luck to Cavan and Armagh in the championship.

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 10/06/2014 10:46:32    1601254

10/06/2014 10:46:32
Tom1916
County: Armagh
Posts: 1700

1601254 Torcaill
County: Australia
Posts: 7

Could they not have just lined up behind the correct flag?

The flag bearers were in the wrong place, the team lined out were they were supposed to.




There is no protocol around which side certain flags should on. There is an informal understanding in place to 'follow your own flag.'

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts: 204 - 10/06/2014 11:26:01    1601289

There is no protocol around which side certain flags should on. There is an informal understanding in place to 'follow your own flag.'

It is actually customary for the home sides flag to be on the outside i.e. the crowd side, for the parade. Therefore Armagh were correct to take up the customary position for the parade at which point the flag bearer should have realised their mistake and swapped.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 10/06/2014 12:22:21    1601349

Torcall.
Armagh must be colour blind so if they could not see the difference in Orange /blue. Never seen them getting in behind the Tyrone flag. ????

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 10/06/2014 12:22:55    1601350

Torcaill when have you ever seen the home side on the far side of a parade? Cavan made the mistake, face up to it

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 10/06/2014 12:37:06    1601363

1601254 Torcaill
County: Australia
Posts: 7


as you don't no what you are talking about don't comment, Armagh were in the right position, as the cavan supporter said that McKeever asked the flag Bearer to change but didn't, cavan come In like a bull to a red flag. but its over leave it all done and dusted let it move on.

youngfella27 (Armagh) - Posts: 110 - 10/06/2014 12:42:00    1601370

It must've been Cavans fault. The Armagh lads and the neutrals from Monaghan and Fermanagh think it was so it's hard to argue with that :)

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12359 - 10/06/2014 12:44:49    1601375

gotmilk
County: Fermanagh
Posts: 1886

1601363
Torcaill when have you ever seen the home side on the far side of a parade? Cavan made the mistake, face up to it

gotmilk you are incorrect Cavan made no mistake. See below todays independent and Oisin McConville comments

It had been suggested in the aftermath of the incident that home teams march on the outside but this has been dispelled by CCCC sources.

Meanwhile, former Armagh footballer Oisin McConville has recalled how lining up on the outside of a parade was something the team he played on always sought if they could.

"We always wanted the outside. We didn't always get it but we always wanted it. We never started rows as a result of it," he said.

"It's whoever is handed the flag in the band. That's how simple it is. I don't think there is anything sinister in it," he said.

"This sounds strange for two reasons. First, when you are on the inside you spend a lot of time standing rather than walking and the other thing is that you are getting the full momentum of the crowd on the outside. At the time it seemed important. I would look at it different now."

McConville doesn't believe the decision to stand behind the Cavan flag came from the management.

"It wasn't something that came from the changing rooms. My understanding is that it was a decision made by the players. There was nothing pre-conceived. It just happened and then you had to stand your ground.

"Armagh could have requested swapping the flags and I don't think Cavan would have had a major issue with that."

McConville acknowledged that it made for a very poor spectacle and distressed some families in the crowd.

"It didn't look great. There were a few kids around us who were genuinely upset about it. We haven't seen anything like that with parades before. The GAA sorted out players going in at half-time, with one set of players staying out. Wherever the flag is, you march behind it or else face a sanction."

McConville also said the GAA should not shirk individual penalties if players are identified as having struck during the incident.

Irish Independent
- See more at: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/no-strict-rules-in-place-for-prematch-parades-30341013.html#sthash.m7SMMfod.dpuf

evano11 (Cavan) - Posts: 265 - 10/06/2014 12:45:48    1601377

1601254 Torcaill
County: Australia
Posts: 7

Could they not have just lined up behind the correct flag?

The flag bearers were in the wrong place, the team lined out were they were supposed to.


There is no protocol around which side certain flags should on. There is an informal understanding in place to 'follow your own flag.'





The one thing that can't be argued is that logic, sense, cop-on, (call it what you want) should have applied here and that each team would walk behind their own flag. In my mind to veer away from that is illogical unless intentional. For god sake even Sean Cavanagh and Dick Clerkin are quoted as saying that neither of them ever knew of any protocol whereby the home team marched next to the fans. Irrespective of the side that each team marches on, in all my days going to Championship matches I have never seen a team march behind the other teams flag.

That said I have my own separate logic as to whether it was intentional or not. Intentional I believe it was. I stood less than 5 feet away from a stalwart of the Armagh midfield and who is very highly highly thought off in Armagh GAA circles and within the GAA / media generally, however when the signal was given for the teams to line up for the march Armagh quickstepped it to their assumed position, however long before their marching position was taken behind the cavan flag this Ex. player was already roaring that they should "hold their ground" etc. etc. likewise all his cronies duly repeated for the Armagh players to stay. His position somehow happened to be directly in line with where the teams were lining up and unless he has visionary ability to see into the future he had an uncanny insight into where Armagh were going to assume their position to march before they did. It could all off course be coincidence?

Spin it which ever way people want but from an Armagh perspective I understand that the end will always justify the means. I stood with a mainly Armagh crowd for the game (great crack it had to be said, comments mainly directed at the ref) in fact most of the Armagh crowd could not understand how McKeever got away with the blocking off to Mackey (at least 3 times) and how he held him by the jersey for the 1st 2 or 3 minutes when he came on, let alone what was been dished out to Keating towards the end of the 1st half and at half time. We couldn't make it out what was been said but they acknowledged it couldn't have been good.

A lot of nonsense is being spouted about what Cavan allegedly did wrong in relation to where Armagh were standing. The only thing Cavan did wrong was to fall for the distraction to their focus and one-upmanship that Armagh initiated. Sad fact was that Armagh felt that this was required and clearly didn't want to leave it to the football alone. At the end of the Day Cavan weren't good enough, they don't have the tactics or forwards to punish 6 backs never mind the 12 that Armagh played with.

offtheditch (Cavan) - Posts: 171 - 10/06/2014 12:48:03    1601380

Whatever your interpretation on it, and everyone will have their own biased version, it didn't look good at all and perceptions are everything. It just gives ammunition to those elitist 'rugger' snobs within Irish sports and journalism who think the GAA is just for 'muck savages' and who love this sort of stuff. It gives them a sense of superiority over the GAA and also gives them a platform to dish out their mock outrage and indignation to make themselves feel better. There has been far worse this year on rugby fields in Ireland and abroad but that gets a very wide berth from these hypocrites. Having said that there has to be a sense of discipline within the GAA that just doesn't tolerate this nonsense. The video shows a lot of shoving, pushing and running around but very little physical blows that actually landed on people. When the video is examined by the CCCC they should act on what they see and not what is perceived to have happened. If fellas have struck others or kicked them on the ground then they should get severe bans and in games not weeks. Likewise any fan seen to have struck players should get a life ban from the GAA. The GAA should act but for the benefit of the Association and not to quench the hypocritical false outcry and satisfy the blood lust of those two faced elements in Irish society who decry everything bad about the GAA.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 10/06/2014 13:32:43    1601424

Watching the prelude to the incident it is quite clear that the Armagh players deliberately lined up behind the cavan flag.
The flag bearer of the Armagh Flag noticed that Armagh where behind the Cavan flag. the Flag bearer then went to the other flag bearer (cavan) and tried to switch places. From the way in which they reached to something it was clear that she was told by someone in the Armagh line to go back to where they were.
A deliberate pre-meditated act on behalf of Armagh.
While all of this was happening the Armagh management stood with smiles on their faces, with Arms folded, their reaction did not speak of concern about what was happening, but rather they had the look of men who knew this was going to happen, in fact they seem pleased with themselves..
The Black card was introduced to stop cynicism creaping into the game, yet this was as cynical an act of provocation I have ever witnessed on a football pitch.
Shame on Amargh

notimpressed (UK) - Posts: 98 - 10/06/2014 13:51:26    1601444

Any match I have attended where there is a parade and a home side the home side have marched on the outside. Any photo I have found on the internet of GAA match parades (where its not a neutral venue) the home team are on the outside. It may not be a written rule or whatever but it is indeed customary.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 10/06/2014 14:53:55    1601493

10/06/2014 13:32:43
Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 6883

1601424
Whatever your interpretation on it, and everyone will have their own biased version, it didn't look good at all and perceptions are everything. It just gives ammunition to those elitist 'rugger' snobs within Irish sports and journalism who think the GAA is just for 'muck savages' and who love this sort of stuff. It gives them a sense of superiority over the GAA and also gives them a platform to dish out their mock outrage and indignation to make themselves feel better. There has been far worse this year on rugby fields in Ireland and abroad but that gets a very wide berth from these hypocrites. Having said that there has to be a sense of discipline within the GAA that just doesn't tolerate this nonsense. The video shows a lot of shoving, pushing and running around but very little physical blows that actually landed on people. When the video is examined by the CCCC they should act on what they see and not what is perceived to have happened. If fellas have struck others or kicked them on the ground then they should get severe bans and in games not weeks. Likewise any fan seen to have struck players should get a life ban from the GAA. The GAA should act but for the benefit of the Association and not to quench the hypocritical false outcry and satisfy the blood lust of those two faced elements in Irish society who decry everything bad about the GAA.

Have read this post twice , had to as I couldn't believe it ,I agree with every word

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 10/06/2014 15:11:50    1601515

Aaron Kernan in today's Daily Mirror insists that Armagh did not have any pre-match masterplan to wind up Cavan or deliberately start anything. He says Armagh lined up in the place where home teams always line up and that Cavan thought they were disrespecting them when they weren't........but he would say that wouldn't he?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 10/06/2014 15:16:08    1601519

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 6884

1601519
Aaron Kernan in today's Daily Mirror insists that Armagh did not have any pre-match masterplan to wind up Cavan or deliberately start anything. He says Armagh lined up in the place where home teams always line up and that Cavan thought they were disrespecting them when they weren't........but he would say that wouldn't he?

You would say that wouldn't you? Where's your evidence to state otherwise?

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 10/06/2014 15:25:28    1601529

Calm down Tom you read me wrong. I said that not as a judegment or bias against Armagh I merely highlight that teams and players will always defend their own positions. What Aaron Kernan said might well be very true but you wouldn't expect him to say anything otherwise would you? He isn't going to admit that Armagh went out of their way to wind Cavan up BEFORE any CCCC investigation.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 10/06/2014 15:36:26    1601542

I watched the events on Sunday from close range.
Both sides were equally to blame.
There was no need for it.
The best team by far on the day won the game.
Armagh are not as good as they were made look and Cavan are not as bad.
Forget about it and move on.
Good luck to Armagh in the semis.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 10/06/2014 16:17:30    1601596

My tuppence worth:

1) Fair dues to doratheexplorer to be the first from either Ard Mhacha or An Cabhán to come on and state that it wasn't entirely the other side's fault. The world didn't end and in fact it seemed to encourage a few others (though still we have an analysis subsequently which pretty much amounts to "the Armagh management had sneaky looks on their faces, a la Homer's evil dog in The Simpsons). on either side to state as much.

2) That supporter should get it in the neck. Wrong or right on who started what, what he did crossed no end of lines.

3) Thank God Oisín McConville thought of something to say! I've always thought that lad was too modest and shy.

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 10/06/2014 19:47:05    1601769

Same here Damo. First time ever agreeing with Ulsterman I think!

Seriously this sort of think needs to be addressed. The shenanagains before Dublin and Mayo in 2006 were embarrassing and Dubs and Tyrone rightly got punished for what happened in Omagh.

I would put Sunday even worse than that. Band leader seems pretty adamant that it was no mistake on their part.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 10/06/2014 20:07:25    1601777

It has indeed to be addressed hurlingdub but on the GAA's terms and within the existing rules. We should not dance to anyone else's tune or jump through hoops for those who badmouth the Association at every opportunity. The BBC and UTV's coverage has been along the usual lines regarding this incident; exaggerated, mock indignation. Most of the time they try to push the GAA to the back of the bus as their lack of coverage shows but they love these sorts of incidents so that they can beat us with a big stick.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9818 - 10/06/2014 20:19:56    1601783