I can understand that they are not skillfull as KK or Dublin or even Wexford.

But fitness is a basic thing and they are miles off with that also.

I don't think they should drop down anywhere.

They have to at this stage,man up take the hidings for the next few years while they work away at underage level until that starts to pay off. I think that's what Wexford done.

If they drop down they may never come back up.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 09/06/2014 10:07:32    1600353

There is in fact another Tier of teams, too good for the Christy Ring and not good enough for the Liam McCarthy. Offaly fall into this bracket.

martinprince (Tyrone) - Posts: 187 - 09/06/2014 12:32:05    1600529

The sad thing is that it has been obvious for years that Offaly did not have the structures in place and they have done nothing about it. The county boards of the breakthrough teams of the 90s like offaly, wexford and to a lesser extent limerick and maybe even clare, did not take advantage enough of the success of those teams. Limerick, laois and wexford and the great example of Dublin seem to have got their house in order and basically saved hurling in their counties. Firstly through a massive effort of volunteers but also by hiring full time coaches and pouring in some money. The hard part is having the passion and interest in place, that's what makes it such a greater challenge for smaller hurling communities such as Kildare. Luckily in a place like offaly, that's already there.
You would have to question why offaly hurling is in tullamore instead of it's spiritual home in birr? You would also have to question why a massive stand was built in tullamore when they are lacking money for the basic structures in both codes! I am wondering the same thing about the redevelopment of pairc uí caoimh.

I'm interested in hearing how long it takes to put the proper structures in place and when can you expect to start winning senior games on the back of it. Looking at the dublin example, I remember some schools success for dublin around 2003 or 2004 and they started winning league games against established powers around 4 years later and now they are reigning leinster champions and serious contenders for Liam for 2014 so I guess there is a 15 year minimum for bearing serious fruits of the hard work. Long road ahead for offaly, they are not that much worse than KK but when the heads drop the belief and pride are missing, a hiding is inevitable.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 09/06/2014 12:56:07    1600568

Offaly competing in the Christy Ring is not the answer . They would set hurling back in the county years . They looked unfit Saturday and when you compare last years performance against the Cats under Ollie Baker something has gone wrong . I dont think Brian is the answer to be honest ,a superb hurler ,one of the greatest but his managerial credentials are questionable .

galwayhero (USA) - Posts: 36 - 09/06/2014 13:06:43    1600580

I adored Offaly hurling growing up, always brilliant to watch and bags of skill. What they gave on Saturday was shocking. Not fit enough, no game plan or the one they had didnt work at all. Only for the keeper they could have shipped 9 goals.

Its not nice to say but yes they probably should drop down (they should have been relegated to d 2 in the league to). Kildare have to play Westmeath for a place in next years Liam McCarthy. Are either less deserving then Offaly of that place? After Saturday at a minimum Offaly should go into the pre Leinster group with SAntrim taking there place in the quarter final draw

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 09/06/2014 13:15:08    1600589

it is not today or yesterday Offaly have been going downhill. In 2005 in Croke Park if I remember correctly they shipped every bit as bad as beating against Kilkenny as they did last Saturday. Also the 2005 Offaly team was probably stronger than what it is now so the decline is a while going on. Carlow beat them in the 2005 league aswell. Its a culmination of lack of funds,resources, small population and lack of players. There was several hurling clubs in North offaly in the 90`s up to the mid 2000 such as St Brigids, Ballyfore, Daingean and Rhode, but each of these is now defunct, Edenderry is the only Hurling club along with Gracefield left in North Offaly and they too are struggling with player numbers etc.

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 804 - 09/06/2014 13:29:59    1600631

Hurlingspuds

I don't like Wexford being compared to offaly. We've been very competitive at.minor and 21 for the least 5 or 6 years. Our seniors are now on the verge of that breakthrough and I believe you'll agree by 9pm Sathereunder ening. although we took way too long after 96 to do it.

As for offaly being in the Christy ring cup I think that would be a disaster. They are in the same place we were in 06. Thankfully the likes of liam Dunne,tom Dempsey,Martin story and George o Connor took the lead in building from youth and we are now beginning to bear the fruit of that. Dublin is a bad example for many reasons ie population,facilities and millions of Euro and annual foreign bonding trips. For an unimportant county it may take a little.longer. I wish them all the luck in the world

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 09/06/2014 13:49:16    1600658

Hurlingspuds

I don't like Wexford being compared to offaly. We've been very competitive at.minor and 21 for the least 5 or 6 years. Our seniors are now on the verge of that breakthrough and I believe you'll agree by 9pm Sathereunder ening. although we took way too long after 96 to do it.

As for offaly being in the Christy ring cup I think that would be a disaster. They are in the same place we were in 06. Thankfully the likes of liam Dunne,tom Dempsey,Martin story and George o Connor took the lead in building from youth and we are now beginning to bear the fruit of that. Dublin is a bad example for many reasons ie population,facilities and millions of Euro and annual foreign bonding trips. For an unimportant county it may take a little.longer. I wish them all the luck in the world

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 09/06/2014 13:49:44    1600661

Sorry for anyone having to watch that on saturday.
The problem in Offaly are huge but fitness is as much mental as physical.
Since Whelehan was appointed the team has been a train wreck.

Saturday we started with
a midfielder at full back.
a wing back at corner back.
a corner forward at wing back.
a wing back at centre back.
a centre forward in midfield.
a full forward at Centre forward.
a full forward at wing forward.
a corner forward at full forward.

and then we played a corner forward as a sweeper.
As for the rest. Wynne, Harding, Gerthy were in their best position but they were making their 1st championship appearance.
Only Carroll and Demspey were playing in they best position and had played championship hurling in that position before.


Offaly hurling is a mess at inter county level. Club hurling is excellent.

Danny Owens was the only person who want to mange us. The county board wouldn't even interview him.
They appointed Whelehan as minor manger and them senior manger a week later.

We should be in the Christy Ring, Were not good enough to be their.

toxicity234 (Offaly) - Posts: 31 - 09/06/2014 13:49:58    1600662

Doylerwex
County: Wexford
Posts: 593

1600661
Doyler

I don't like Wexford being compared to offaly. We've been very competitive at.minor and 21 for the least 5 or 6 years. Our seniors are now on the verge of that breakthrough and I believe you'll agree by 9pm Sathereunder ening. although we took way too long after 96 to do it.

As for offaly being in the Christy ring cup I think that would be a disaster. They are in the same place we were in 06. Thankfully the likes of liam Dunne,tom Dempsey,Martin story and George o Connor took the lead in building from youth and we are now beginning to bear the fruit of that. Dublin is a bad example for many reasons ie population,facilities and millions of Euro and annual foreign bonding trips. For an unimportant county it may take a little.longer. I wish them all the luck in the world

I think you misunderstood me. I think wexford are a million miles away from offaly at underage at the moment. The results are there to see it. I was just saying that the 96 win wasn't taken advantage of as it might have been so I think we're saying the exact same thing really.

hurlinspuds (Cork) - Posts: 1494 - 09/06/2014 14:28:27    1600716

Offaly would probably benefit from being in the Provincial Qualifier group but they really need to get their act together at underage level. This has been on the cards for a LONG time & yet it seems nothing is being done. Very sad for Offaly & sad too for hurling. Their senior footballers are very poor too.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 09/06/2014 14:45:51    1600740

Dumbfounded by this Offaly situation.Problems start off the pitch and thats plain to see for a number of years. The county players and the hurling clubs of Offaly wanted to be closer to Birr to train and all that so this has been coming. It goes more than beyond that I have no doubt.

Offaly should make the drop down to Round Robin in Leinster not to the Christy Ring Cup IMO. Instead of 5 teams in that make it 6 or 2 groups of 3. And Top team in each group go into the QF and maybe a play off between the 2 second place teams for the 3rd spot.


I dont think Laois or Antrim would want to come out of that RR group as the mommentum it gave them in the QFs more so for Laois than in Antrim's case.

Offaly need to start winning matches to build up that confidence. IMO they are bad but not that bad.On their day we all know what they are capable of when they put it together.

No offence to Brian Whelehan but he does not seem cut out for this and a good appointment for Offaly would be Ken Hogan or even John McIntyre again.As an offaly man pointed out players out of position Saturday night seems like to me a manager who does not know his own players strenghts.

People will say dont change the manager but something is not working.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 09/06/2014 14:57:48    1600760

They are just totally disorganised. I don't think it's simply a matter of not having the players, because I don't think things are that bad at club level. There's no reason for Offaly not to be competitive, even with . This will come with good organisation and good underage structures. They were a brilliant dual county for about 20 years. They will struggle to reach that level again, but they can go some way to it.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 09/06/2014 18:10:42    1600989

09/06/2014 18:10:42
Treaty_Exile
County: Limerick
Posts: 242

1600989
They are just totally disorganised. I don't think it's simply a matter of not having the players, because I don't think things are that bad at club level. There's no reason for Offaly not to be competitive, even with . This will come with good organisation and good underage structures. They were a brilliant dual county for about 20 years. They will struggle to reach that level again, but they can go some way to it.

The question is while the county board is disorganised is it right for counties who are putting structures and time into place , for them to have to sit in the wings ? Allowing Offaly County board / clubs / whoever to kop onto themselves , what if they never get it back ? Should Christy Ring competetors still be denied ? How long is a piece of string ? How long can the situation down there be tolerated ? Theres two sides to look at , the health and future of Offaly Hurling Versus the Health of Hurling in say Westmeath/kildare/Kerry / Carlow amongst others .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 09/06/2014 18:24:18    1601001

toxicity234 thank you. I was waiting for somebody to point out the problems wit the Offaly line-up. This is my opinion on the Offaly players.

J Dempsey - outstanding.
N Wynne - debutant, seemed to be a bit overwhelmed.
R Hanniffy - due to David Kenny injury was played at full-back. Would have been much better at 6.
J Rigney - poor
B Harding - debutant, himself and Wynne could not get to grips with TJ at all.
D Morkan - not a no.6, never will be.
C Parlon - forward by nature, ran ragged by Walter.
C Mahon - had the physicality to match Kilkenny at times, but not the hurling.
S Ryan - started like a train but dropped out of the game completely
J Bergin - very dissapointing.
D Currams - a goal-scoring machine for Kilcormac for the last few years. Should ALWAYS be at 14.
P Geraghty - seemed a bit out of his depth, physically inferior to any Kilkenny player.
K Connolly - Made two failed attempts at rising the ball for the first goal before Larkin pounced.
S Dooley - the second most disappointing performance of the night.
B Carroll outstanding.

C McDonald - improved the defence, expect him to start from now on.
T Geraghty - I don't mean to sound petulant here, but, why replace a player who can't physically come to terms with the opposition or get into the game with his twin brother, who hurls in the same position, brings the same skill set and same physical presence? seriously.
S Quirke - another man who will start from now on.
G Healion - he got shown up against Kilkenny last year. Was poor again in my opinion.

Hurling1Guru1 (Galway) - Posts: 244 - 09/06/2014 20:01:49    1601063

No matter how much skill you have if your not fit forget it. A lot of what is wrong with Offaly team could be put right, you can correct after all poor fitness, but I am afraid apathy and lack of hunger is beyond anyone but the players. It would be a shame for hurling to lose a county like Offaly it takes years to get back. But they have to start and soon.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4957 - 09/06/2014 21:06:56    1601110

Why does anyone expect Offaly to be able to compete with the top teams on a consistent basis. They did extremely well with the resources they had in the 80s and 90s but realistically that doesn't happen too often. Even if Offaly had perfect structures in place they probably still wouldn't be able to compete at the moment. Their club structure is obviously very good so that can't be the problem. It's mostly down to numbers; the stronger counties have greater resources and therefore compete more regularly at the top level. All Offaly can do, just like a number of other counties including Laois, Antrim or Carlow etc. is keep working hard and hope that they get an outstanding crop of hurlers at some stage like Offaly did in the past that will allow them to compete.
In the meantime counties outside the top 8 should compete in a new competition consisting of the next 8 teams with the finalists or top 3 gaining entry to the provincial championship. It would replace the present Leinster round robin compettion. This would be both fair and great preparation for the teams that qualify. For example a competition consisting of Wexford, Offaly, Antrim, Laois, Kerry, Carlow, Westmeath and Kildare would be fairly competitive while also giving middle tier counties a decent chance to progress. It could be called the Mick Mackey Cup or something similar.

kerryhound (Kerry) - Posts: 37 - 10/06/2014 10:17:07    1601230

You can take wexford right out of that group anyway.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 10/06/2014 11:04:38    1601267

Hold on actually. You must be right. Championship draws with both the.Leinster and all-ireland champions. . Wexford must be way off the pace. . . . . . .

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3866 - 10/06/2014 11:06:11    1601270

Kerryhound ,

I had a chance to see up close the u15 and u14 of both Laois and Offaly , they were worlds apart , one county going the right way and one going nowhere , basics and Im talking basics of hurling lift and strike, catch etc Offaly were miles behind Laois , this is a development issue , the point being they are Not addressing their fundamental issues like the future players , its not about winning all irelands its about putting together structures that will give talent an opportunity to shine , and yes once in a blue moon you get a golden age a group of players that yield silverware , but it takes time planning , Offaly are guilty of doing nothing therefore and for that reason Id rather see another county given a chance to shine in the top tier .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 10/06/2014 11:16:46    1601279