fionn

ridiculous surely the only games they should have that thing up for anyway would be finals
nobody goes on the pitch in croker after games otherwise

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 10/06/2014 16:00:44    1601580

Absolutely ridiculous argument Hill. In almost all those games you mentioned, The away team would have been favourites, Maybe the tipp/Limerick game aside.

None of the away results you gave us there are major shocks, Infact many of us would expect those results. I'd expect Laois to beat Wicklow. I expected Tyrone to go to Newry in the replay and win. I expected Donegal to go and win in Derry, Galway to dismantle London etc.

Masters point is absolutely valid, He is not saying home teams should win games cause they are at home. He is saying that for Dublin, It is an advantage that we have in that we play our home league games there and all our championship games. Even in 2010 when we last went the qualifier route we played every one of our qualifers at Croker. Its an absolute joke.

These Dublin players know the place inside out, Other teams like Louth on Sunday as Tomas O'Se rightly pointed out, have little experience of playing there and it can effect people in different way, Dublin on the other hand are comfortable in their surroundings and therefore they dont panic.

I have no doubt that if Dublin where in Portlaoise on Sunday we would have won the game anyway, Maybe we would have been a bit more nervous and the margain of victory may not have been as big, But all that talk is hypothetical and there is no way of proving of disproving that so Master, You cant base your argument on hypothetical ideas cause the reality is noone knows how Dublin would do outside of Croker, The last time we where outside Croker was 8 years ago and the team in terms of quality and mentality is a different team to the one that played Longford back in 06.

What i will say is that Dublin have now played 43 consecutive championship games in Croke Park. In that time they have only lost 1 game in Leinster. As a fan, I absolutely LOVE Croke park, I really do, But its gotten to the stage now where it doesnt even seem like we earn the right to play there anymore, You are playing against sides like Laois who no disrespect to them, Arent getting any closer to us in Leinster infront of a rubbish atmosphere in a half filled ground. The reason the atmosphere is so bad is cause everyone EXPECTED Dublin to win, And we know that we will be back again in 3 weeks time. Even at 2 points down the lads on the SG where saying there is an inevitability about it.

I guarantee if you let Donegal, Tyrone, Mayo, Cork or Kerry play 43 consecutive championship games in the same stadium, With that team having the same dressing room, They would be familiar and never panic either. I want us to win Leinster, I want us to win the All Ireland, But i know i can speak for most Dubs when i say, I want to get bloody out of Croker. I want us to earn the right to play there its ridiculous at this stage.

But, That all said and done, It's not Dublins CB who decide where they play, As said before we will play where we are told and us fans will be there.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 10/06/2014 16:07:04    1601587

This thread is about Dublin v Laois at the weekend. Anything off topic as some posters may have already realised will not be posted. By all means set up a new thread to discuss other topics but here is solely about Dublin v Laois. Admin.

Administrator (None) - Posts: 2275 - 10/06/2014 16:09:49    1601590

fainleog it isn't neutral though. The crowd is totally partisan and the pitch suits Dublin's game perfectly. It takes away practically any chance of another team upsetting the odds and that is reflected in the leinster championship of late. Yes it suits all free flowing teams, but the point is all games in the AI series aren't played on quick, wide pitches and all teams are not free flowing in nature. A team who likes this type of pitch might come a cropper on a tight, rough, rain-sodden pitch, and indeed this may happen to other sides over the course of the year. Similarly, a big, defensive, physical side might be a far harder nut to crack on such a pitch. It isn't simply a question of croke park being a great surface or whatever.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 10/06/2014 16:17:44    1601597

I agree Hill, but that is what I was told.

Hope the steward is wrong and that they are down for good though.

The amount of fans who commented on it last Sunday was huge.
Much better view.... :o)

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 4340 - 10/06/2014 16:18:38    1601599

Well say wayno

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 10/06/2014 16:24:02    1601609

Laois and Louth both performed very poorly in the league so I wouldn't be reading too much into Dublin and Kildares wins at the weekend. I know that league and championship are very different but in reality Kildare and Louth were competing against Div 1 teams so there was really no suprises.

Dublin looked very relaxed, too relaxed but as the pundits said on Sunday it was their relentless playing along with their bench that won the game for them. Would that performance be good enough to beat the likes of Cork, Mayo, Kerry etc., probably not as Dublin would have conceded a few goals but then Dublin would also be more up for the challenge against a better team.

Kildare seemed to be out to set a standard and the score reflected their superior team. They played some nice football at times and scored some nice scores but from the highlights it looked like very poor defending and no pressure on the kicker.

I haven;t seen anything from any team yet that would convince me that the Dubs will be dethroned this year. Their biggest enemy is themselves!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1677 - 10/06/2014 16:32:04    1601619

waynoI

antrim were rank outsiders against fermanagh
louth were rank outsiders against westmeath
down were rank outsiders against tyrone
limerick hurlers were rank outsiders against tipp

in 2010 we got drawn at home in the qualifiers so they fixed the games for croker what is a joke about that?
if we got drawn away we would have been fixed away from home.
I actually think if the match was in portlaoise you would have seen maybe a bigger result for dublin
as just like the under21s playing in tullamore in front of a big roscommon crowd they would have been more focused
from the first minute and probably scored a few goals in the first half and killed the game off early.
also why would they be nervous? sure 90% of the crowd would be dubs too, its just rubbish talk .
laois arent getting any closer, i doubt you said that at half time now be honest wayno
you were banging on all week about laois being nowhere near us yet with 15 minutes to go there was only a goal in it
so sorry but im not buying this rubbish talk from you. crap atmosphere and half full what are you on about
there was 41 thousand there thats a very god crowd if any provncial final got that they would be delighted
people are obsessed with grounds being squashed like a tin of sardines.
so your basically saying you dont enjoy dublin being a top football team and would rather go back to being underdogs in games
you really cannot win on here it seems
we have a fantastic football team who are playing superb football and you moan about it.
its getting worse now the same dressing room was the reason we beat laois on sunday seriously
people have real mentality issues if they cannot go out on a pitch and play a game of football
without thinking of all these issues
and the funny thing about it all is that laois were given no hope on sunday
and the fact the game was in croke park probably helped them as it made them get up for the game more
the chance to play in croker in front of a big crowd with nothing to lose no pressure they came out and really enjoyed themselves

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 10/06/2014 16:39:13    1601623

TheMaster - The Dublin V Laois match was a free flowing match last Sunday. Laois played very good football but Dublin won the match by 11 points. I hope the team that wins the All-Ireland this year is a free flowing team and plays good football. I do not want a team that parks the bus in front of the goals winning the All-Ireland. If Mayo play Dublin before the All-Ireland final this year,it is likely to attract in excess of 82,000 people to the game and it is unrealistic to expect the game to be played in a venue like Portlaose, Tullamore or Pearse Stadium. Playing in Croke Park is conducive to playing good football.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 602 - 10/06/2014 16:44:57    1601626

Dublin looked very relaxed, too relaxed but as the pundits said on Sunday it was their relentless playing along with their bench that won the game for them. Would that performance be good enough to beat the likes of Cork, Mayo, Kerry etc., probably not as Dublin would have conceded a few goals but then Dublin would also be more up for the challenge against a better team.

___________________________________

Oh I do agree.

The Dublin performance in the first half in particular was nowhere near good enough. It really is as simple as that and it will not be good enough as the championship goes on.

I, Like Paul Flynn, Hope that the first half display was down to rustiness and not having a game in 6 weeks while Laois played a few weeks ago against Wicklow. But either way its not something I as a fan am worrying about.

I don't think there was ever any doubt from anyone in Croke park on Sunday afternoon what was going to happen in that second half and in the end the predictable outcome came about.

For Dublin, It was simply about getting over the first potential banana skin, We did that, Next time we have to do the same against Wexford but we dont want to be peaking too early.

The biggest positives to take from the game is that we won without playing fantastically well and we have alot to improve on next time out. I dont expect us to murder Wexford playing sensation football over 70 minutes, But i expect us to beat them and do our job and progress to a final against Meath (who i reckon will beat Kildare). Another positive was that Laois didnt roll over by the occasion and the team they where playing, And gave us a decent enough game for 55 minutes which i'd hope will stand to us going in against Wexford.

If there was any complacency there, Hopefully the first half performance will eradicate that too. Anyway as i said, It was all about the win, I expect us to improve again next time out and i expect Wexford to put in a similar type performance and they also have the forwards to trouble us.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 10/06/2014 16:52:10    1601630

Hill, Listen if you are going to reply by all means i will debate, But do NOT put words in my mouth.

With regards the game last weekend, Look, I predicted we would win by 10 or more, We did. If you look back to page 3 of this thread, The top comment is a reply to you, You will see in that comment that i said Laois would put it up to us, But our superior fitness and quality especially from the bench, will see us pull away in the last 15 or 20 minutes... I was bang on and its exactly what happened. At half time i was full sure what i predicted would happen. We are miles ahead of Laois thats a fact. Dont even try and tell me they are near our level because we beat them without having to go into 3rd gear. Everyone agrees thats the case and that Dublin where nowhere near their best.

And you made a mockery of yourself by saying i was talking rubbish about Croker only being half full, with the following quote - "there was 41 thousand there thats a very god crowd if any provncial final got that they would be delighted ... Croker holds 82,000....... There was 41,000 there, I dont know how good your maths is chief, But by my calculations, Half of 82,000 is 41,000...... Therefore the ground was HALF FULL... Now as for the atmosphere, If you thought that atmosphere was good, Go back and rewatch the game, It was like a morgue for 3/4s of the game.

so your basically saying you dont enjoy dublin being a top football team and would rather go back to being underdogs in games
you really cannot win on here it seems
we have a fantastic football team who are playing superb football and you moan about it.
its getting worse now the same dressing room was the reason we beat laois on sunday seriously

Are you for real ? I'm not enjoying Dublin being a top team ? Okay yea if you say so........ Whatever ye think, Dont let facts and what i said on the Dublin page (which you replied to regarding "enjoying" this team) get in the way of your ridiculous statements whatever you do. I am well aware of the team we have. You dont need to remind me. I'm not saying we won cause we where in the same dressing room, Again if you can find where i said that... Go ahead, Otherwise you are talking out of your hoop.

The funny thing is Laois where given no hope ? They where beaten by 11 - In the end everyone was right, They hadn't a hope. For 35 minutes they put it up to us, But when we upped it, There couldnt cope. Its the result at 70 minutes that matters.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 10/06/2014 17:09:01    1601645

fainleog, first off, nowhere did I say the AI final shouldn't be in CP. And I didn't say laois were a defensive, spoiling side either. I just look at the Roscommon game and what they could put together, using their environment to the limits to aid them and putting together their gameplan etc, it was real ambush stuff and for every person outside mayo, it was great to see. Then I think of laois, and the effort they put in in the first half, and it seemed so unfair on them. They were primed, they had a plan, they had Dublin struggling and they were shooting the lights out, but the crowd was against them, the surroundings were against them, everything was against them and you could see that in the end. There wasn't 11 points between the sides in terms of performance, and had it been in portlaoise or wherever, I doubt there would have been. This is my point. Give them a chance. How many was in croke park? 35 odd thousand? Not even half full? Get the hell out of there and do the competition some justice. Leinster will be all the better because of it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 10/06/2014 17:11:27    1601646

realdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 3405

1601405
I agree with you regarding Kildare and I think we'd be too fast for that Donegal team as we'd penetrate their system with pace and power plus we have players who can take points from the 40.

real,
You miss the point about the Donegal "system". There is no Donegal "system" as such. At their best they take each game on it's merits & try to come up with a strategy that will work against the opposition. Will that be good enough this year? Probably not, but to think that they would play the same way against Dublin as they would against Derry, Tyrone or Mayo would be mistaken.
Even I can see that Dublin pose a whole other set of problems from those teams & if I can see it then I'm fairly sure JMcG can.
I would expect him to focus on Cluxton's kickouts & to concentrate on breaking quickly from turnover ball as Dublin have shown themselves to be vulnerable in defence.
I would really love to see a match between them with both sides at full strength. Heart would say Donegal, head would say that the Dublin subs bench would probably swing it for them.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 10/06/2014 18:20:27    1601694

Ross Munnelly was definitely the best player on the field last Sunday but to be fair to the Sunday game it's very hard to give motm to a player that plays on a team that loses by 11 points in all fairness.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 10/06/2014 18:24:44    1601700

waynoI
County: Dublin


you predicted we would blow them away and be far too good for them and have answers for everything laois would throw at us
and that certainly did not happen
i told you that we would be rusty that was the case
i told you we had a six week gap to overcome and we would be close until last 20 mins and that was case again.
they were nowhere near their best because laois didnt come out and roll over
they came out and played football and we were not let run riot
you have a lot to learn still it seems.

I didnt suggest the ground wasnt half full now did i?
dont be smart , you know full well what i ment
i said you were be littling the fact that 41 thousand people turned out for a game were one team was rated as 12/1 outsiders and another FIFTY TO ONE ON which is a very good crowd for the first round of the championship!!!
up 8 thousand on last years attendance.
you go to a match to watch a match if its entertainment after go to a nightclub or concert
or bang your bodhran in your bedroom watching the game then maybe you can create your own enjoyment
but most of us who go to a match care more about what happens on the pitch then off it.

its your kind of arrogance that gives people a stick to beat dubs with
and yet if we lose you will be the first on trumping the other team and saying we arent good enough
you said all along last year and in 2011 we wouldnt win the all ireland all year
now your going completly the opposite making it a foregone conclusion before a ball is kicked nearly
you just dont know how to take each game as it comes
maybe you should listen to the dublin teams approach and heed it

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 10/06/2014 18:31:24    1601708

If Dublin played Laois on a mountain top, a beach, in a barn we still would have won. It doesn't matter where we play, we will still win. The pitch is exactly the same size for both teams, goals same width etc. Another Dublin thread gets hyjacked by the usual tired comments, split Dublin in two, three etc, from people who do not understand, no matter how many times its explained why it is so! Incredible, like the Sky thing, it now pervades every argument. Maybe if Dublin played with 10 v 15, into a goal four feet wide defending one thirty feet wide , this team would still win. Amazing how the wide open spaces where no advantage to Dublin in first half. Mad things like, fitness, skill, pace, strenght unfortunately for the other 31 counties still count. Imagine Dublin playing in a tip like St Conlaiths just to satisfy a few disgruntled culchie and the odd embarrassed dub!

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4955 - 10/06/2014 18:48:59    1601724

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 2624

1601694
realdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 3405

1601405
I agree with you regarding Kildare and I think we'd be too fast for that Donegal team as we'd penetrate their system with pace and power plus we have players who can take points from the 40.

real,
You miss the point about the Donegal "system". There is no Donegal "system" as such. At their best they take each game on it's merits & try to come up with a strategy that will work against the opposition. Will that be good enough this year? Probably not, but to think that they would play the same way against Dublin as they would against Derry, Tyrone or Mayo would be mistaken.
Even I can see that Dublin pose a whole other set of problems from those teams & if I can see it then I'm fairly sure JMcG can.
I would expect him to focus on Cluxton's kickouts & to concentrate on breaking quickly from turnover ball as Dublin have shown themselves to be vulnerable in defence.
I would really love to see a match between them with both sides at full strength. Heart would say Donegal, head would say that the Dublin subs bench would probably swing it for them.


If Dublin met Donegal i'd expect the last thing McGuinness would do is challenge Cluxton's kickout. Challenging SC's kickout is a conscious team effort of pushing up and not letting him play short or his ideal kicks of between 30-40 metres. It has worked for many teams but the flip side is that it leaves teams exposed when Dublin win a long kickout. Dublin probably lose more long kickouts than they win but when we win them we are very dangerous and Kev Mac's goal against Kerry is a classic example among many others.

Donegal at their best under JMG almost never conceded goals. If we were to meet i'd be shocked, but delighted if Donegal pushed up and contested our kickout. Rather i'd fully expect Donegal to sit back, let the kickout go uncontested inside our 40 and target their own 40 for turnovers for counterattacks at pace. That's classic Donegal and a strategy that won an All Ireland.

Against Laois, Dublin found their kickout contested yet the same story materialised, when we won ball around the middle a gulf of space opened up as so many of the oppositions players were committed up the pitch. We created 5-6 goals first half goal chances that should have yielded serious return. That's the downside to pushing up on a Dublin kickout, it was the same story against Kerry and Meath in last years championship.

I do not think JMG would be happy giving Dublin such space that inevitably comes when kickouts are contested. Actually, i think it would be tactical suicide for Donegal.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 10/06/2014 18:57:01    1601731

SamOnErrigal
County: Donegal
Posts: 318

1601346
Question for Dublin fans ??
Can Kildare or Meath beat Dublin ??
My own opinion:::: Kildare to beat Meath and to give Dublin a helluva game.

Other question???
Reading Gaelic life and Joe Brolly. He thinks Dublin are the only team equipped to beat Donegal provided they are back to 2012 form. Now as Brolly says with TWO buses parked and Attacking from all angles Donegal could be a tough nut to crack.
The 2013 Donegal won't get near Dublin but anything near 2012 then we would have a chance. I think we would perform better against Dublin than a lot of teams (eg) Cork Mayo or Kerry. If the results go according to plan then we will have the Semi final I WANT ::: Dublin v Donegal. Now If (and it's a big IF) that were to happen I'd expect J McG to have his homework done on Dublin and have a plan and a second plan to really put it up to Dublin.
Can Dublin beat Donegal if they meet or better still can Donegal beat Dublin if they meet. ????

-------
Regarding Meath and Kildare, I really think it would take something special from either of them to beat this Dublin team. Over the last three outings we have beaten Kildare by 39 points agg. That's some gap for them to bridge and we beat them by 10 points in March with a make shift forward line.

Definitely Donegal have the potential to derail Dublin over 70 if they get their tactics right, maintain their discipline and match Dublin's stamina. We have struggled against teams who put a brick wall out on the 20. If a team can keep us out there and close down our kickouts then we will have problems. I think we hit 14 plus wides yesterday so that tells a story and Laois were not defending in packs as Donegal will so a lot of misses were from players not under pressure. The question I would be asking of Donegal is that assuming that they will be playing 60% plus of the game in their own half, will they be able to clock up enough scores to come out on top against a team that is packing one of the most potent set of attackers that the game has ever seen. The tactical battle would be fascinating but couldn't see it being a game for the purist.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4746 - 10/06/2014 19:19:49    1601755

Muckrosshead, I know that they have to deviate at least a little depending on who they're playing, every team has to try and counteract Cluxton, but at the end of the day it is still an ultra defensive system and if they didn't use it they would not have won the AI in 2012. But I hear what you are saying.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8790 - 10/06/2014 19:28:29    1601759

realdub
I can't agree that Donegal were "ultra defensive" in 2012. Tight when they didn't have the ball, without doubt yes, but they racked up some big scores, 2-18 in the Ulster final & 0-16 against Cork in the Semi final, hardly ultra defensive. At full strength their back six especially the half back line move up & down the field, against Derry the whole half back line scored from play.

That semi final in 2011 has a lot to answer for, it hangs like a millstone round our necks although Dublin were hardly a model of attacking football that day either!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 10/06/2014 19:39:06    1601763