Half of his scores in those two finals were frees so can hardly be used as an example of him getting the better of his marker. Keeping the Gooch to 6 points from play over two matches is a pretty impressive feat. In the 2003 semi the Tyrone defence dealt with him even more comfortably, limiting him to a single solitary point. That's 7 points from play over 210 minutes of football, a point every half hour or so from one of the greatest players of all time. I think it's fair to say Gormley, Ricey et al had the better of him in their meetings

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 21/05/2014 17:39:27    1591501

Im not disputing any of those things MichaelO, but it is fair to assume that cooper took all these things into account and picked the best guys he had faced. I find this idea that he simply didn't want to give RMcM credit to be totally disrespectful to both the gooch and the guys he did name. Why cant RMcM or Gormley simply not be on the list?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 21/05/2014 17:42:05    1591505

Didn't do much I'm last years semi final once Cian osullivan went on him

bernardmessi (Dublin) - Posts: 182 - 21/05/2014 18:01:59    1591514

Jaysus lads, ye're getting awful defensive. What about all the other players he didn't mention? Are they all going to be insulted too!! Poor lads, think Gooch has insulted well over 100 players in that case. It's not like he picked defenders that are unknown or known to be inept at defending. He picked Marc O'Se, Anthony Lynch and Keith Higgins who have 5 All Irelands, 7 All Stars, Footballer of the Year and Young Footballer of the Year between them!! Would many people exclude these players on a team of the last 15 years?? Marc O'Se is a natural corner back who Gooch has had many tough club games and training sessions against. Anthony Lynch was the one player that Gooch really struggled against in the early part of his career. I honestly don't remember Higgins marking the Gooch very often (correct me if I'm wrong) but he was probably the second best player in the country last year, I'm sure his accolades are fresh in the mind.

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 21/05/2014 18:04:35    1591516

Give over TheMaster you continually disagree with people on here just for the sake of it and rarely if ever have you said anything positive about Tyrone gaa. As Michael points out Gooch was well contained by Tyrone players so its a fair point to make.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 21/05/2014 18:14:53    1591524

JMK I'm sure you are aware that the likes of Ricey and Conor Gormley have plenty accolades too and they just happened to be on the team that stopped Colm and Kerry from getting an additional 3 all Ireland titles. If Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn were asked to name their toughest opponents list and they left out Steve Collins we would say that at best they were being dishonest and we would laugh them out the door. Same as in this scenario.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 21/05/2014 18:55:48    1591548

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3039

1591548
JMK I'm sure you are aware that the likes of Ricey and Conor Gormley have plenty accolades too and they just happened to be on the team that stopped Colm and Kerry from getting an additional 3 all Ireland titles. If Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn were asked to name their toughest opponents list and they left out Steve Collins we would say that at best they were being dishonest and we would laugh them out the door. Same as in this scenario.

So they both should be on it for 1 game each?

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 21/05/2014 19:04:40    1591559

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3039

1591548
JMK I'm sure you are aware that the likes of Ricey and Conor Gormley have plenty accolades too and they just happened to be on the team that stopped Colm and Kerry from getting an additional 3 all Ireland titles. If Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn were asked to name their toughest opponents list and they left out Steve Collins we would say that at best they were being dishonest and we would laugh them out the door. Same as in this scenario.

Woeful comparison

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 21/05/2014 19:05:45    1591561

There were plenty league games too through the years to be considered.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 21/05/2014 19:12:08    1591564

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3040

1591564
There were plenty league games too through the years to be considered.

I'm sure he did.
You lads are still in a bad way for attention.

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 21/05/2014 19:20:45    1591570

Now that we 'know' who Cooper's toughest opponents were:
I wonder who Canavans was: I'd say it was Sean Marty Lockhart.
Stevie Mc Donnell?
Padraig Joyce?
Kieran McDonald?
Bernard Brogan?
...

TheGateKeeper (Tyrone) - Posts: 2843 - 21/05/2014 19:24:13    1591572

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3041

1591564 There were plenty league games too through the years to be considered.


Its ok Seanie, id say ye will get into his toughest team he played against list ,
that Should cover all the lads ;)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 21/05/2014 19:32:09    1591576

I'm sure he did.
You lads are still in a bad way for attention.

A Tyrone man didn't make this topic. I've nothing against the Gooch naming those three players as his toughest markers, I know it's not important but sure it's all in the name of discussion. I just commented to say that I thought Ricey and Gormley did well in those Kerry v Tyrone matches whereas others think for example that Gormley got 'roasted' or that it was because of the blanket defence etc (and I'm sure having a strong defensive unit didn't hurt). Just a bit of debate, we're not gonna burn Gooch at the stake.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 21/05/2014 19:38:20    1591580

And rightly so Athcliath.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 21/05/2014 19:45:02    1591581

It's actually a brilliant comparison Superglue.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 21/05/2014 19:46:03    1591582

seanie_boy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 3043

1591582 It's actually a brilliant comparison Superglue.

You're comparing an individual in an individual sport vs an individual in a team sport.
The boxer has 100% input into how the result will go. It's up to him and him alone. If he's beaten, then he's beaten by the better opponent. The result of a team depends on all 15. You're picking Tyrone because they beat Kerry. By your logic every player on the losing them was beaten by his direct opponent on the winning team.
Should Peter Canavan name his opponent in 95 as one of his toughest because Dublin beat them?

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1283 - 21/05/2014 20:12:48    1591597

You Superglue,and many Kerry players and people,can't now and some never could give those Tyrone players the credit they deserved. That's all that's wrong with yuz man. Ask the Limerick man why he thought it was worth starting a thread over since ye seem to think my opinion is not worth hearing.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 21/05/2014 20:37:54    1591606

Superglue
He might have named A Lynch and K Higgins seeing that when he met them in All Ireland finals Kerry won and he got his CELTIC cross Probably did not name RmM or C Gormley as he was on the loosing side in their three meetings. As the Tyrone post quite rightly states Cooper averaged about a point every 30 minutes against either RMM or C Gormley. When I get time must watch these games again especially as I want to recall just how good Tyrone were, and also with star forwards as good as p Canavan O Mulligan, and Stephen O Neill who in my book was every bit as good as Gooch,only for the ammount of injuries he had If I were picking a team from the 00's S ONeill would be the first man picked in the forward line. Never got the credit he deserved

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 21/05/2014 20:55:30    1591624

@ seanie_boy

Of course I'm aware of McMenamin and Gormley's achievements, and I'm not trying to take away from either of them, my point was that Gooch named 3 top quality footballers, and instead of people discussing their brilliance ye are arguing why he didn't include so and so. Tyrone overcame Kerry in 3 big big games in the 00's, and I'm sure a lot of the Kerry players will define those games as some of the toughest in their lives, but as an individual their opponent on the day may not have come across as being the toughest they ever faced. I'm afraid I don't get your analogy as I'm not a boxing fan, but perhaps Gooch would describe those days as frustrating rather than tough, I don't know. Perhaps Gormley and McMenamin are #4 & #5, he says in the interview it's very hard to just pick 3. I thought Higgins was a weird one alright, but there's no doubting what a great player he is. But in regards to Anthony Lynch there many days in Killarney and Pairc Ui Chaoimh where Kerry had the beating of Cork on the day, but Lynch had the beating of Gooch, and I'm sure similar situations happened often in training with O'Se too. Whereas Tyrone had the beating of Kerry in all 3 occasions. Unless there's a league game that someone remembers, but I don't remember a game where Kerry had the beating of Tyrone and the Gooch had a difficult game (mainly because Kerry rarely had the beating of Tyrone :P ). Seamus Moynihan once said that the best player he played against was Paul Barden, was this an insult to every other opponent? No, it was a compliment to Paul Barden. Look a lot of the Tyrone lads (even though a Limerick lad started the thread) seem to be insulted by Gooch's exclusion of any Tyrone player in his short list, but I really doubt this was meant as an insult to Tyrone. It's not as if he was specifically asked about either of them and said they s***e or something. Take yourselves back to 2012, when Kerry finally got one over on Tyrone. See the relief on the Kerry players faces, even though they beat a Tyrone that was very much passed their best. Remember the story afterwards of the round of applause that the Tyrone team got the whole way out of Killarney? I'm sure some Kerry people are a bit spiteful towards that Tyrone team, that beat Kerry in the big occasion twice and the penultimate once in the space of 5 years, but there certainly is not a lack of respect. In years to come you don't think ol' Kerry lads will talking be about the Cavanaghs, Doohers, Canavans, O'Neills, Gormleys et al. Course they will and already are. I just can't see how it's been taken as an insult rather than a compliment to 3 talented footballers.

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 21/05/2014 21:18:48    1591645

@ SamOnErrigal

O'Neill never got the credit he deserved? Jaysus I've never heard a bad word said about him, or not a hear a good word when he was discussed. Injuries may have curtailed his accolades but Footballer of the year and 3 All Stars is fairly good recognition, especially for a lad who retired early in his career (to come back again sure). I mean he probably won't go down in the same book as Canavan or Cavanagh, but I don't think you'll find many that will deny what a great player he was and is.

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 21/05/2014 21:24:44    1591649