I think one thing this episode shows is just how out of touch from the ordinary club and club player that the like of county set ups and the GPA are. They don't care about us and we are second class citizens as far as they are concerned. Once a lot of lads has been with the county for a few years they no more give a toss about togging for their clubs in league games etc. Maybe we should let them off and turn pro and create are own club association.

One thing I'd like to know,

Why do a lot of "GAA" people put Rugby,Rugby players and Rugby rules up on a pedestal like it's something we in the GAA should aspire to be?

It sickens me that you here some saying that they are true gaels but then dengrade lads by comparing them to

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 16/05/2014 10:36:01    1588412

This lad won't play for Mayo. Nothing to be seeing here.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 16/05/2014 10:48:54    1588420

Exiled I disagree entirely. If Mayo win a senior All-Ireland then the players will be remembered forever. I'd say your average Quins fan has not only forgotten most of the players in that side but the actual game as well. You are a Mayo man so I wouldn't have as much knowledge of local pressures as you, but from speaking to Mayo men here the impression I get is that your county is fanatical about football, and your players are probably under more pressure and carry greater expectation than almost all others.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 16/05/2014 10:50:31    1588425

15/05/2014 21:11:09 Soma
Considering Mayo spent €650,000 on their senior football team last year, a % of which would have been spent on dieticians, fitness coaches, pyschologists, performance analysts etc, then you would have to imagine he has not been brought in simply for his experience of professional sport and to offer some wisdom. That would be useful in a club situation but hardly in a set-up where such a huge sum is spent on preparation already. And while he has had a long career with Connacht, he has never come near playing in a game where the pressure would be similar to an All-Ireland final so even for that he provides no obvious purpose. It is quite a strange move by Mayos management, I would be amazed if he lasted long with them. Is an overemphasis on fitness and physique a possible explanation why they seem to suffer with the skills of the game on the biggest days? His expertise as a pro full time sportsmen will be an advantage even to an inter county side and all those coaches etc will not have same experience he has as a pro sportsman.
He played in european cup finals and also played part of the 2007 world cup game v argentina which certainy would have been as pressurised a game as an all ireland final considering consequences of ireland losing

15/05/2014 21:31:38
updwell
Surely as a rugby player his biggest challenge will be kicking a round ball in the direction he wants to kick it-a different technique from a rugby ball. His general fitness should be ok as a rugby back but it's not the same fitness, recently I saw the Limerick and Tipp minors and Tipp had a young Munster rugby academy player playing centre forward. He was on Limericks best player and was good in close in riddles and battling for the ball but when it came to sprinting and short sharp movements he struggled and appeared very top heavy-the difference in skill was also noticeable.round ball easier to kick than a rugby ball. fitness will be ok.
You are referring to Willie Coffey(from toomevara) as the player playing centre forward for Tipperary. He is not Munster academy player nor is he in the sub academy. He played on a munster underage team last september. He was clearly rated as he was only called up to the tipp squad a short while before that game as he had been playing senior cup rugby with Rockwell prior to that. difference in skill may have different but Coffey's case wouldnt have been helped by him not playing any hurling or at least very little hurling in the months previous to his call up to the county squad.
He was a winger on a provincial rugby side at schools level he doesnt have any issue with sprinting and short sharp movements.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/05/2014 11:07:44    1588441

16/05/2014 09:49:48 hill16no1man
not very similiar skills at all in fairness
he throws an oval ball in rugby and has to handpass a roundball in gaelic
thats just one differance and how do you know he has the skills to be good enough?
have you seen him play gaelic lately?
if he hasnt played gaelic in a decade nobody would know if he is any good never mind inter county standard
I pressume horan is just looking to find out and if he is any use will use him to try see out games I would imagine
would have no problems fitting into horans cycnical tactics haha can see him doing a sean cavanagh to deny a goal chance much about as hard to pass a rugby ball than handpass a gaelic football accurately over short distance and with his previous gaelic standard combined with his abilities and experience as a rugby player he def has the skills.


16/05/2014 09:49:48
hill16no1man
not very similiar skills at all in fairness
he throws an oval ball in rugby and has to handpass a roundball in gaelic
thats just one differance and how do you know he has the skills to be good enough?
have you seen him play gaelic lately?
if he hasnt played gaelic in a decade nobody would know if he is any good never mind inter county standard
I pressume horan is just looking to find out and if he is any use will use him to try see out games I would imagine
would have no problems fitting into horans cycnical tactics haha can see him doing a sean cavanagh to deny a goal chance

ormondbannerman
Would have fitness to play from the start as well and would have the skills, very similar skills and others that could be easily adapted to for him to play gaelic

16/05/2014 09:50:15 Soma
White I am unsure of that. The Gooch has said that if he was starting off now it's unlikely he would make the breakthrough as he did not have the required physique, and in my opinion the late 90's had more skillful players but was obviously lagging behind in fitness. I appreciate that it may be nostalgia tricking me on this but there really were many genius footballers back then.
And Exile I don't think there is any comparison between a 2nd tier rugby final in front of 13000 people and the pressure Mayo are under going into an All-Ireland. Some of the Premiership games he played in for Quins would have had more pressure than that rugby final.colm cooper is much ligher and slightly shorter than Gavin Duffy.
pressure is still the same for the players and it isnt a second tier comptition for players when involved. pressure is exactly the same. Ridiculous to say some premiership games quins would have played in would have more pressure than that european final when winning final meant qualification for main european tournament plus extra financial benefits as well as glory of winning

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/05/2014 11:36:04    1588458

16/05/2014 10:36:01 daytona11
I think one thing this episode shows is just how out of touch from the ordinary club and club player that the like of county set ups and the GPA are. They don't care about us and we are second class citizens as far as they are concerned. Once a lot of lads has been with the county for a few years they no more give a toss about togging for their clubs in league games etc. Maybe we should let them off and turn pro and create are own club association.
One thing I'd like to know,
Why do a lot of "GAA" people put Rugby,Rugby players and Rugby rules up on a pedestal like it's something we in the GAA should aspire to be?
It sickens me that you here some saying that they are true gaels but then dengrade lads by comparing them to doesnt show that at all. the county set ups/gpa do care about the rest as they wouldnt exist otherwise. rugby isnt put on a pedestal from the GAA. That is clearly evident from this forum alone nevermind the gaa public at large.
comparing to who?

16/05/2014 10:50:31
Soma
Exiled I disagree entirely. If Mayo win a senior All-Ireland then the players will be remembered forever. I'd say your average Quins fan has not only forgotten most of the players in that side but the actual game as well. You are a Mayo man so I wouldn't have as much knowledge of local pressures as you, but from speaking to Mayo men here the impression I get is that your county is fanatical about football, and your players are probably under more pressure and carry greater expectation than almost all others. you know speaking on behalf of quins supporters soma?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/05/2014 11:36:22    1588459

Ormondbannerman there is a different technique in kicking a round ball(kick around the corner) and an oval ball(a more straight on kick)-look at Aussie rules players kicking a round ball in the compromise game.
I saw the Tipp minor only once but he didn't look very mobile against Ronan Lynch who admittedly is one of the top minors hurlers in the country and probably a Limerick senior from next year on-maybe Coffey is fast on a rugby field with all the heavy forwards around him but he might not be hurling fast, it could be like you said he wasn't up to speed with his hurling after playing rugby all winter

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 899 - 16/05/2014 11:39:42    1588464

16/05/2014 11:39:42 updwell
Ormondbannerman there is a different technique in kicking a round ball(kick around the corner) and an oval ball(a more straight on kick)-look at Aussie rules players kicking a round ball in the compromise game.
I saw the Tipp minor only once but he didn't look very mobile against Ronan Lynch who admittedly is one of the top minors hurlers in the country and probably a Limerick senior from next year on-maybe Coffey is fast on a rugby field with all the heavy forwards around him but he might not be hurling fast, it could be like you said he wasn't up to speed with his hurling after playing rugby all winter coffey is fast full stop regardless of what pitch he is on and wouldnt be directly around forwards so much considering playing at wing/centre
He did bulk up quite a bit as he moved from wing to centre for quite a part of season which would have affcted mobility slightly but still is very quick
there is a different technique but its easier to kick a round ball from experience etc. Much easier to be precise with kicking a roundball from anyone ive talked to as well as control catching etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/05/2014 11:58:08    1588484

Ormo you have managed to be wrong in all your points there and I don't have the time or interest in correcting you but just on one point alone. In 2005 Quins and Duffy were relegated, with massive implications for the club, jobs, wages, prestige etc. The final games in that league campaign had much more pressure than any Parker final, and yet I would say they still never came near the pressure of an All-Ireland. Not sure why you would say claiming this is ridiculous, do you really believe rugby sides here would sacrifice their premiership status for a win in Europe's secondary club rugby competition?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 16/05/2014 12:04:48    1588496

ormondbannerman
much about as hard to pass a rugby ball than handpass a gaelic football accurately over short distance and with his previous gaelic standard combined with his abilities and experience as a rugby player he def has the skills.

what previous gaa skills?
its been 15 years it said since he played gaa,how on earth can you say becuse he was able to play 15 years ago he has skill to
line out at inter county level 15 years on haha
what does expeiance as a rugby player matter in terms of him being able to play gaa?
golf is professional but id hardly like to see paul mcginley train with dublin after the ryder cup is over

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/05/2014 14:23:15    1588576

ormond

he said he couldnt beleive how the game had changed and the amount of running he had to do in training
seems like he has a lot of catching up to do

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/05/2014 14:24:26    1588578

16/05/2014 12:04:48 Soma
Ormo you have managed to be wrong in all your points there and I don't have the time or interest in correcting you but just on one point alone. In 2005 Quins and Duffy were relegated, with massive implications for the club, jobs, wages, prestige etc. The final games in that league campaign had much more pressure than any Parker final, and yet I would say they still never came near the pressure of an All-Ireland. Not sure why you would say claiming this is ridiculous, do you really believe rugby sides here would sacrifice their premiership status for a win in Europe's secondary club rugby competition? stop with the ormo stuff. you say all this you havent time etc which shows your obsession with me. if you want to know more about me my email is.... [email protected]
Harlequins were always at bottom in that season barely winning a game. No 1 game would have had any bit as much pressure as a one off final such as the parker pen, secondary competition to heineken cup or not
16/05/2014 14:23:15 hill16no1man
ormondbannerman much about as hard to pass a rugby ball than handpass a gaelic football accurately over short distance and with his previous gaelic standard combined with his abilities and experience as a rugby player he def has the skills.

what previous gaa skills?
its been 15 years it said since he played gaa,how on earth can you say becuse he was able to play 15 years ago he has skill to
line out at inter county level 15 years on haha
what does expeiance as a rugby player matter in terms of him being able to play gaa?
golf is professional but id hardly like to see paul mcginley train with dublin after the ryder cup is over he still will have the skills and have gained even more from being a pro athlete for decade plus. he had skills to play county underage and experience through positional work, attributes of his position will all help him as a gaelic footballer. bringing up paul mcginley as an example shows you are talking out of your arse. gaelic and rugby both field sports with many similar attibutes. golf completely different
16/05/2014 14:24:26
hill16no1man
he said he couldnt beleive how the game had changed and the amount of running he had to do in training
seems like he has a lot of catching up to do yeah well saying how much game has changed is understandable and there could be questions raised if he said skills were an issue but he said running which wont be any issue for him

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/05/2014 14:35:03    1588584

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 6043

1587930
Kurt, rugby players are nowhere near as fit as Aussie Rules or gaelic football.

having played rugby (2nd row) hurling and football both mainly full forward - id say fitness level in rugby is greater coz the scrummaging knackers you

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 16/05/2014 14:39:51    1588591

daytona11
County: Kildare
Posts: 2530

1587992
Bit of a joke really.

I can see how someone can go straight from playing GAA to Rugby. In GAA there is a lot of skill, none in Rugby.

daytona11
County: Kildare
Posts: 2530

1587992
Bit of a joke really.

I can see how someone can go straight from playing GAA to Rugby. In GAA there is a lot of skill, none in Rugby.

NO skill in rugby well there is only

drop kicking, restarts, kicking out of hand (some gaelic footballers miss free kicks at goal from hand) , place kicking,grubber kicking, box kicking, garryowens, tackling, body technique at the breakdown, passing (pro can pass nearly half the pitch) ball presentation in the tackle, rucking, mauling ball ripping, scrummaging, propping, hooking, lineout throwing, lineout and restart lifting, reading opposition lineout, hand offs evading tacklers, good foot movement to name a few

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 16/05/2014 14:42:29    1588593

Ormo
Harlequins were always at bottom in that season barely winning a game. No 1 game would have had any bit as much pressure as a one off final such as the parker pen, secondary competition to heineken cup or not
Good grief! Had harlequins won either of there last 2 games they would have finished 9th. They lost them both and finished 12th, relegated by 2 points. It was one of the tightest relegation battles ever in English rugby. No offence to you but you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Just leave it so.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 16/05/2014 16:07:54    1588651

Janesboro I think you'll find half of those skills you listed out are performed by 1 maybe 2 players on a rugby team while the other half are pushing, shoving and lifting, you can't seriously call those 'skills'

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 899 - 16/05/2014 16:16:35    1588655

ormondbannerman
he still will have the skills and have gained even more from being a pro athlete for decade plus. he had skills to play county underage and experience through positional work, attributes of his position will all help him as a gaelic footballer. bringing up paul mcginley as an example shows you are talking out of your arse. gaelic and rugby both field sports with many similar attibutes. golf completely different

15 years later you think he will still have the exact same skills come on man?
yeah he had the skills 15 years ago to play county underage
hes now 32 when you leave a sport for that long its bound to take time
sure look at tadhg kennelly he was playing the odd game when home from australia
and was playing a sport far closer to gaa then rugby and it took him from january to august to get himself right
you keep saying pro athlete but that was in rugby I dont get your over use of the word pro
that just because somebody gets paid means they can do anything better
well he obviously wasnt up to the fitness of mayo squad when this was his comments
"I thought my heart was going to explode during training with the running involved and how the rules have changed since I last played!"

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/05/2014 17:15:42    1588686

ormond

he said running was an issue already but saying he was in bits basically from the running

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/05/2014 17:17:03    1588687

He'd have done the hard ycondition Connacht last July, August and September in their pre and early season. He'd be saying he's knackered if it was this August and back into another rugby preseason the real murder weeks. He's hit the Mayo training at a time where coaches are ramping up the fitness. I daresay many of the experienced intercounty players are finding it very tough.

For Gavin it's different conditining to the rugby, different skills using different muscle groups, less heavy collisions more pace so of course it takes time to adapt.

Very valid point that he hasn't played at a top level in 15 years but it shouldn't stop him trying. Playing 6 Nations Rugby is possibly comparable to the pressure of a Championship game.

Sure it might annoy someone in the squad that might lose their place but in the unlikely event that Gavin can make the grade it improves our options.

Give him his chance to prove the doubters wrong.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8004 - 16/05/2014 18:04:44    1588705

Janeaboro

Half of them skills could be filed under one thing
Kicking a ball Haha
Rugby guys love their terms and fancy names for simply kicking the ball

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 16/05/2014 19:40:40    1588733