KingdomBoy1
County: Kerry
Posts: 1960

1585583
Crokepark is a massive advantage to the dubs we haven't been beat in the championship in Killarney in 20 years.
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In fairness what quality team have you played there?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 08/05/2014 21:42:07    1585597

benjyyy
County: Donegal
Posts: 968

1585521
Even in the Scottish league where teams play each other at least 4 times in a season there is a statistically significant advantage in playing at home. So I'm not sure how relevant your point of Mayo potentially playing in Croke Park 5 times is.

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If there were as many away fans present as home, how would the stats look I wonder? See my previous point re overwhelming home support and the hostility factor. Think el Classico or old firm.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 08/05/2014 21:46:28    1585600

Meath win a lot more matches in Navan than outside it. It's daft to suggest at this point CP isn't the same for Dublin. Whether Mayo play there 5 times a year or not is irrelevant. Nobody wants the Dubs to play most of their matches outside of it just their fair share. Last year for the Leinster QF less than 25k dubs turned out to support them. That's not enough to justify them never having to play a first round or QF in stadiums like Wexford/Portlaoise/Tullamore/Navan. Donegal didn't move to Clones last year against Tyrone and I believe that's why they won that match.

Do I think Dublin wouldn't still win most of their matches outside CP if they went ahead? Of course they would but matches will be closer and matches like Dublin v Westmeath or Dublin v Laois/Wexford would be closer and have a much better atmosphere.

I also think it's a joke the way the all ireland semi's and quarters HAVE to be played in Croke park. When Limerick played Kerry in the quarters they either should have tossed for home advantage or played it in a neutral venue like Semple. Instead of 10k fans from both teams attending you'd have 30-40k. More revenue which is all HQ want and a lot more fans going to it which is what the GAA should really care about. You'd also have a much better atmosphere.

When Cork get their new stadium built and Casement is redone I see know reason why quarter finals that wouldn't attract more than 38-45k should be hosted at those venues. Monaghan v Tyrone last year had at most 20k fans from both teams in Croke Park but if that was played in CLones it would have been packed out. So when casement is redone all ulster quarters simply have to be played there.

Anyone reading this should know I'm not anti Dublin, I'm anti every fecking game possible under the sun being played in CP.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 08/05/2014 21:48:47    1585604

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 2464

1585477 An arguement about nothing.

Yes Croke Park is a bit of an advantage to Dublin, but most teams are well used to it by now & it certainly isn't the reason other teams are folding like a deck of cards at the merest sign of a blue shirt.

One thing Croke Park does is make you look very foolish if you are not mentally up for the game. It is an unforgiving place for the sham artist & posuer.


Good post, Also I think the weaker counties especially in leinster have very little chance of an upset in championship when match is in Croker against the Dubs and I think they should be played outside Croker add , adds a bit of interest to those matches and we get to travel. local town gets good takings for the day in shops and bars and everyones happy.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 08/05/2014 22:05:28    1585640

If a team is not good enough it won't matter a damn where they play, which is at should be. Croke Parks wide open spaces will find you out if your team is not up to it and the more successful you are the more likely you are to play there. Croke Park is no advantage to any team its all in the head.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4961 - 09/05/2014 08:24:15    1585641

Home advantage is home advantage. If some teams want to play Dublin there, good luck to them. If I was from a county who plays Dublin regularly like Meath, Kildare, Wexford, Westmeath etc., I'd much prefer to bring them down to my own backyard and see how they cope with an unfamiliar ground. And any real Dubs fan I know would relish the odd away trip too. But at the end of the day its all about the money and you can't argue with that if its being ploughed back into the grassroots.

decky (Roscommon) - Posts: 384 - 09/05/2014 09:04:26    1585649

I wouldn't be a big fan of the take Dublin out of Croke Park idea. If they're able to fill it, then let them play their games there.

However there is an obvious bias towards Dublin when it comes to playing Croke Park - using the same dressing-up, warm-up at the same end, segregating a whole section of the stadium for Dublin fans.

Advantage or not, it's an obvious bias and certainly this aspect could be reviewed if Dublin are going to continue to use Croke Park.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 09/05/2014 09:13:10    1585651

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3070

Good post, Also I think the weaker counties especially in leinster have very little chance of an upset in championship when match is in Croker against the Dubs and I think they should be played outside Croker add , adds a bit of interest to those matches and we get to travel. local town gets good takings for the day in shops and bars.

I agree with AthCliath on the benefits to other towns of moving games involving Dublin out of the capital.
Much is made here of the financial contribution Dublin make to the coffers of the GAA & all that is true. But the commercial benefit the city derives from followers from all over Ireland going to Croke Park evens the score out a lot.
Provincial towns should get a slice of this pie as well & Dubs shouldn't underestimate the carnival atmosphere that accompanies the blue decked horde when they descend on a sleepy backwater.
Locals scrub houses, plant flowers & get the bunting out. On the big day they stand slack jawed as they stare at the exotic creatures that stroll through their little town visiting churches, art galleries & the elderly before the big game.
No the benefits of Dublin getting out & about are legion & could play a big part in getting the country back on it's feet. Considering the fact that most Dubs have culchie blood flowing through their veins it could be seen as an extension of the Gathering. We might even see tear stained Dubs, blue jersies straining over ample frames, standing tear streaked in graveyards while they pay their respects to long gone ancestors.
I tell you lads, the possibilities are endless!!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5030 - 09/05/2014 09:19:26    1585654

The truth is the GAA will have to look at early leinster matches outside Croker for the Dubs (or people will get tired of watching hammerings and Croker as a venue will suffer )this was not as big an issue in years gone past when Laois ,Westmeath ,Offaly could win leinster and loved Croker but now when their own managers are giving out, I think the Gaa should look at it. If we are in a qualifier round against a team outside leinster have it down the country, The occasion would be fantastic and again much needed revenue for other counties. Ballybofey was only a league match last year , but was one of my favourites occasios last year for the craic afterwards, barmen were delighted to have a couple of thousand Dubs spending money ,and as Fans we are losing out also.
We are been used in this scenario as much as anyone.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 09/05/2014 09:27:44    1585657

AthCliath I agree with you. Those early games are actually making less money in CP when you consider the man power required to run it compared to a smaller ground. It would be a far bigger occasion if dublin had to go to a town down the country and Im sure you would enjoy it more also. I dont see what there is to be gained from keeping those games in CP. The only thing I can think of is they are trying to keep the 'not that bothered' section of dublin fan coming, where they will go if it is a 5 minute walk but not an hour down the country. I think they are losing out on such good occasions for the sake of these people. Away trips are a great occasion for fans, plus a smaller county playing at home, bursting a gut and giving dublin a scare is only good for the gaa as a product. I recall london doing something similar to mayo and the lift it gave the london team was huge. It gave them belief and not to mention a fair bit more coverage, people wanted to know who they were, they got a lot more respect and they became a dangerous team for the next two years, taking a few scalps. That is what will put the gaa on the map, not squeezing every euro out of it, while squeezing the life out of the competition in the process. We see in england how big the FA cup was, before europe took over. That was because of the shock results, the big teams having to go to the small team and getting the fright of their lives. In other words, the romance. That is something that is badly missed in the gaa. Cup competitions need that element of surprise.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 09/05/2014 10:00:46    1585665

Joxer
Cork Tyrone Longford limerick Tipperary Waterford Clare and that's just what I can remember.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 09/05/2014 10:15:46    1585669

benjyyy
County: Donegal
Posts: 968

1585488
OK but if thats the case then why is home form in soccer around the world statistically proven to be better than away form? If there is no advantage then why is this the case? Is it purely psychological?
There are certainly many things were being 'familiar' simply doesn't cut it such as sleeping in your own bed, the same routine etc.

yes its is purely in the mind
soccer teams have this mentality of home and away and the media drum it up so much they believe in it
also the fact soccer matches have away goals count more means its another mental block for them
seriously its grass a ball and a set of posts
they are the main elemants in every ground
crowd means nothing once the ball is thrown in
lets be honest any county worth there salt is not going to be looking up or listening to the stands or terraces
while a match is on, your focused on the game and beating the guy who is marking you
clear example is 2009 all ireland quarter final
ground full to capacity 75 thousand dublin supporters and we were beaten after ten minutes
why? because kerry were simply the better team that day
the best team wins a gaa match on the day regardless of venue

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 09/05/2014 10:47:11    1585680

The problem is most Leinster grounds cannot hold them except O Moore Park. I see no reason whty Laois cannot host Dublin if they win their match and meet in the quarter final. It would liven up the championship no end and much better to have 27,000 packed to the rafters O Moore park than a 33-35k empty looking Croke Park. It would be an amazing sight so early in the championship.
Dublin would still be overwhelming favs but would give Laois some chance

The problem is the rest of the teams have had their stadium capacity reduced with the stroke of a pen. Its amazing we have all these 40k plus stadiums in Munster and theres only one GAA ground outside Croke Park that can host more than 20k

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 423 - 09/05/2014 10:52:46    1585685

just my view here lads I am good mates with a few leitrim guys that have played in CP and they found it quite intimidating to say the least as compared to playing away in any of the galway or mayo grounds.

I could go as far as saying the derry guys could have felt this too in the league final this year.

so I think the point of this tread is if the dubs just got to play the league semi final and final every year there plus the leinster final and the quarter final to the all Ireland final it would be fair enough.

the fact that they get to play a lot of their league games there plus early round championship games give them an advantage.
this is a major advantage for all the good young dub players coming through the last few years say for example like jack mc last year been pretty new to the scene and if he was only starting this year and the dubs did not make the league semi his first senior run out on CP could be a leinster final against a meath team.

so clearly they do have an advantage

fkm leitrim (Leitrim) - Posts: 88 - 09/05/2014 11:15:42    1585699

fkm leitrim

but the only advantage is mental that you have described
its quite esy to change that from any countys perspective if you have a team focused properaly
and there are differant things in training you can do to combat mental problems for young guys

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 09/05/2014 11:20:40    1585704

The Dubs only have an advantage over you in Croker under 2 circumstances, 1 = they have better players than you and/or 2 = your team doesn't believe in themselves. We've seen many teams over the years beat Dublin in Croker, some done it with ease, but fact of the matter is Dublin are just better than the rest at the minute, it's up to us to catch up.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 09/05/2014 11:29:15    1585708

I enjoyed reading that Muckross :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 09/05/2014 11:39:27    1585712

dubs away from home form in the league

Westmeath 1-7 dubs 0-14 - no disrespect to WM but this would be a way different score line in CP
derry 1-16 dubs 0-13 - I should say no more
tyrone 1-15 dubs 3-10 - good win away to a very good team would expect a dubs win in CP tho margin could be up to 7-10 points tho
Kildare 2-7 dubs 2-20 - I shoot myself in the foot
Kerry 0-4 dubs 1-11 - shoot the other foot
Donegal beat the dubs I think can't find the score
not sure did they play 3 or 4 away games last year
laois 1-9 dubs 1-14 - like I said about the Westmeath game above
down 0-15 dubs 1-10 - make up yer own minds on this
mayo 0-20 dubs 0-8 - I think ballboy was corner forward that day
cork 1-12 dubs 0-12 - twas a great cork team tho

so their last 10 away league games they have won 5 and lost 5 they only beat Westmeath and laois by 5 points away I would think that would have been a different story in CP.

so yes getting all their home game in the league and all championship games in CP does give a massive advantage when playing there.

numbers and stats don't lie my friends

fkm leitrim (Leitrim) - Posts: 88 - 09/05/2014 11:44:19    1585717

There is a section of the ground dolled off especially for Dublin fans. Treatment like this is not afforded to any other county.

They are allowed use the same dressing rooms and warm up in the same area as well.

Now whether that's an advantage or not, I don't know but surely in the interests of impartiality, then this special treatment needs to be reviewed.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 09/05/2014 11:49:38    1585721

Unfortunately the desire to move Dublin out of Croke Park is not strong enough where it really counts

The stats don't lie

The option was there, the opportunity to enforce change was there... it got 2 votes

Say's it all...

This supposed advantage is being up-kept by various CB's other than Dublin's = FACT.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 09/05/2014 12:02:03    1585727