I love the stats in the original post that count Parnell park as an away ground!

It absolutely is an advantage to play at home every game. Its so obvious an advantage I cant fathom to understand how people can argue it is not an advantage. Obviously from the leinster finals on they should play in croke park but they should be treated like every other county in leinster championship. Up to the leinster council to fix that but they seem happier to take the cash.

Actually feel a bit sorry for the dub fans. Nothing is better then you and your friends travelling to a game in the summer. Great craic to be had.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 06/05/2014 18:37:38    1584780

All we are short of hearing is Dublin have a massive advantage recently as they know how to walk up the steps in the Hogan Stand!!!

Utter nonsense!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 06/05/2014 18:41:55    1584782

Kildare have played a lot of 'home' games in Croker recently. Didn't help us come the summer anyway. As I said in the other thread it's an advantage financially because they can let Parnell fall apart and not have to worry about it hosting big games so it's money they can use elsewhere. But on the field, with Division 1 games, league semi-finals and finals and all the rest lots of teams get to regularly play there before the serious stuff starts. On the field it's not an issue. There would be a novelty value to Dublin going down to Portlaoise or Navan but once Dublin got in to the swing of that they'd just dominate on merit like they do in Croker now.

doublehop (Kildare) - Posts: 4172 - 06/05/2014 19:04:18    1584785

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 12422

1584721
Exactly...

The opportunity was there to remove this supposed advantage

And it only got 2 votes in favour... that speaks volumes.

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Says it all. The gas thing is if a Dub came on here and claimed that Croker is our home ground you'd have every Seamus from Dingle to Letterkenny berating us and claiming that it is a neutral venue, the organisation's HQ and to be claimed by all. When we claim that it IS a neutral venue we are slated because of all of the advantages that playing there gives us. Not borne out by the stats of course but sure when did hard facts ever account for anything. Again though what games are we talking about realistically, the first 2 rounds of LSFC?? So we would play Carlow and Wexford away or something. I'm all for that as long as the die hards, on both sides, don't lose out on tkts.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 06/05/2014 19:05:28    1584787

I've been wanting this changed for years.

Last year Kildare v Offaly would have been 10 times better and more atmospheric if the game was played either in navan or one of the teams had home advantage.

Then the Dubs v Westmeath afterwards wold have been 10 times better if it was played in a packed Portlaoise. The Dubs would have still won although probably by a little less but the game would have been enjoyable.

Facts are the Leinster championship is now one of the worst championships.

Munster and Leinster Hurling is way better, Ulster football miles better and at least in Munster more than 1 team has a serious chance of winning it. Connaught the only one I'd compare to the Leinster now.

The sad thing is they don't want to do it because of a loss of income. Well Ofally v Kildare out of croke park would have drawn a much bigger crowd if one of them had home advantage and the remainder needed would have made their way to Portlaoise. But that's assuming Dublin's travelling support is still like the 80's/90's. Maybe HQ are afraid it will end up like the Dublin u21's playing in front of very little support but I highly doubt it.

2 county grounds would also cost a lot less to run and host the 2 games. I really wish the GAA would see past the big dollar bills and try to make a once great championship interesting again. If Meath somehow win this year I will not change my views one bit.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 06/05/2014 22:04:00    1584869

Joxer, fluff you say?

Do you play football? For example I know at our club pitch that if the wind is blowing a particular way as it often does that there is a spot on the pitch 50 yards from one of the goals, where I can swing a leg at it into the air and it will probably sale over.

Home advantage is about familiarity and comfort. If you think the dubs don't have an advantage then you are either dilusional or don't play football.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Dubs wouldn't win all Ireland titles if they played all their games away from home. I'm just saying they have an undeniable advantage from playing all games in Croke Park.

jamesjoyce (Derry) - Posts: 126 - 07/05/2014 08:43:49    1584871

Here We go again. Thread number 10000 on this subject!!! Get over it

chriscart580 (Meath) - Posts: 376 - 07/05/2014 08:58:50    1584874

Have to agree with Joker on this one.There is no stats to show that a home game is of any advantage in the GAA. Part of the problem lies in the fact not many teams play many home games. If you look at the premiership you can begin to do the analysis on the effects of home games - yellow/red cards, penalties, offsides and interestingly added time. There is a study of the English league that showed when the home team was behind the added time was always longer than when they were ahead. Some would say the biggest impact of a home game is the crowd, which should result in a higher fee count given to or lower against the away team. Also yellow and red cards. Yet again there was a study in Baseball where they had cameras behind the plate to see if the umpires call was correct - in some cases they told the umpire the camera was there in others they didn't. What they found was that when the umpire knew he was been recorded the % of correct calls shot up and there appeared to be no bias to the the home team. When the umpire was not told and still recorded there was a significant bias in the calls to the home team. If you extrapolate this to the GAA then having a home game and crowd will only count when the game is not televised as referees don't feel as if they are been recorded and can have someone point out their mistakes. There are very few of Dublin's games in CP that are not televised in some way and while there is no proof, you would have to say therefore that its unlikely Dublin gain any advantage from the crowd influencing the referees/officials decisions. All the other stuff - sleeping in your own bed and dressing room, you cannot say it has any impact - if it did then no Dublin player would ever have a bad day playing in Croke Park and all the opposition would have bad days.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2183 - 07/05/2014 13:28:02    1584985

jamesjoyce
County: Derry
Posts: 80

1584871
Joxer, fluff you say?

Do you play football? For example I know at our club pitch that if the wind is blowing a particular way as it often does that there is a spot on the pitch 50 yards from one of the goals, where I can swing a leg at it into the air and it will probably sale over.

Home advantage is about familiarity and comfort. If you think the dubs don't have an advantage then you are either dilusional or don't play football.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the Dubs wouldn't win all Ireland titles if they played all their games away from home. I'm just saying they have an undeniable advantage from playing all games in Croke Park.

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Yes fluff. I played football for many years and was even free taker when playing half forward so have a decent enough understanding of the variables. Of course back then all kicks were off the ground. Have you ever played at Croke Park or talked to a free taker who has? The on the field wind direction can be very unpredictable apparently because of the stadiums open one ended structure. In fact I seem to remember the Irish out-halfs commenting on this when they played in CP.

I'm not saying that wind familiarisation isn't a factor in any kickers book but to put it down as a Dublin advantage is laughable. Any self-respecting kicker will judge the wind factor immediately before the kick not with some pre-conceived tactic for every blade of grass on the pitch.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 07/05/2014 18:49:50    1585169

dont we all know the supporters in croke park are allowed stop the ball going over the bar
the grass is cut differantly to all other countys apart from dublin
the posts shine a glaring light as soon as an opponent comes near
and last but not least the ball gains a stone in weight when any other team other then dublin is in possesion

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 08/05/2014 14:57:01    1585393

great to see the vast majority of non dubs here see sense and reason in this futile arguement!!
Fair play lads

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8170 - 08/05/2014 15:23:53    1585404

Yes fluff. I played football for many years and was even free taker when playing half forward so have a decent enough understanding of the variables. Of course back then all kicks were off the ground. Have you ever played at Croke Park or talked to a free taker who has? The on the field wind direction can be very unpredictable apparently because of the stadiums open one ended structure. In fact I seem to remember the Irish out-halfs commenting on this when they played in CP.

I'm not saying that wind familiarisation isn't a factor in any kickers book but to put it down as a Dublin advantage is laughable. Any self-respecting kicker will judge the wind factor immediately before the kick not with some pre-conceived tactic for every blade of grass on the pitch.

__________________________________________________________________

Is that knowledge not an advantage in itself? Surely players who played there a lot would know better which side of the pitch this affects and could better factor it into their decision to shoot or not?

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1448 - 08/05/2014 15:43:42    1585412

I think that's stretching it a bit Benjyy. If something is unpredicatble then you can't really allow for it. That's the point really. On the whole point of familiarity itself. Mayo, if they get a run to the AI Final will probably have played in Croker 5 times, twice in the league, 3 times in championship (1/4s to Final) this year. Dublin will have played probably 8 or 9 times because they got to the league final. Is the familiarity factor so big in this case, on wind direction or anything else for that matter? I don't think so. I should imagine that Gooch, Andy Moran, Johnny Doyle, Cillian O'Connor and many others would be very comfortable playing in Croke park, from wind direction, to dressing toom, to routine. How many times do you have to play on one pitch to be "familiar" with it? Granted you may have younger players from less successful counties who may be overawed by the occasion but that can be applied to any scenario at the top level.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 08/05/2014 16:45:54    1585451

An arguement about nothing.

Yes Croke Park is a bit of an advantage to Dublin, but most teams are well used to it by now & it certainly isn't the reason other teams are folding like a deck of cards at the merest sign of a blue shirt.

One thing Croke Park does is make you look very foolish if you are not mentally up for the game. It is an unforgiving place for the sham artist & posuer.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5030 - 08/05/2014 17:32:37    1585477

Well said Joxer , if one person plays ten times in HQ and his opponent only seven then one of them is more familiar ?imagine falling from a cliff you can fall from 200 metres or 150 metres either way your " familiar " with pain .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 08/05/2014 17:41:19    1585482

OK but if thats the case then why is home form in soccer around the world statistically proven to be better than away form? If there is no advantage then why is this the case? Is it purely psychological?

There are certainly many things were being 'familiar' simply doesn't cut it such as sleeping in your own bed, the same routine etc.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1448 - 08/05/2014 18:10:57    1585488

That's it in a nut shell Muckrosshead!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8821 - 08/05/2014 18:32:57    1585500

benjyyy
County: Donegal
Posts: 967

1585488
OK but if thats the case then why is home form in soccer around the world statistically proven to be better than away form? If there is no advantage then why is this the case? Is it purely psychological?

There are certainly many things were being 'familiar' simply doesn't cut it such as sleeping in your own bed, the same routine etc

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Well firstly CP is NOT Dublin's home ground. Would Mayo be playing there potentially 5 times this year if it was? Dublin are being allocated the HQ in the capital for capacity (read GAA financial) reasons. The soccer point is no comparison as again unlike Mayo, for example, Liverpool will not play at Old Tracfford 5 times in a year. Nor would they be under allocated tkts like an away soccer team would, AI final last year for example where the allocation was probably 50 50. I believe it's nearly all down to support levels, hostile atmosphere at soccer games. While Dublin bring noise to CP we don't bring hostility but I do believe that the noise can lift the team and that is an advantage. The flip side is that it brings huge expectation so can work psychologically for or against.

I'm not arguing that there is no advantage by the way just that it is ridiculously overstated by some.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4749 - 08/05/2014 18:51:43    1585515

Even in the Scottish league where teams play each other at least 4 times in a season there is a statistically significant advantage in playing at home. So I'm not sure how relevant your point of Mayo potentially playing in Croke Park 5 times is.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1448 - 08/05/2014 19:08:09    1585521

Crokepark is a massive advantage to the dubs we haven't been beat in the championship in Killarney in 20 years.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 08/05/2014 21:20:08    1585583