after yesterday's farce,yet again the issue of umpires needing to be tested in more scrutiny has been brought to light.
given the pressure on referees,and the scrutiny their every decision faces,the last thing they need is for their umpires not to know whether the ball goes over the bar or not.
now i have always said that umpires should be up-and-coming referees,but surely the day of a referee bringing 4 friends for a day out is long over.
so it got me thinking,should referees now have to face an umpire test?it is no longer good enough for an umpire to lie against a post and have a guess,there should be proper training in terms of positioning relative to the ball.as a club umpire,i always stand back from the post and follow the play and adjust my position relative to the play.i cannot understand how umpires at the top level seem to get so many calls wrong.
i dont believe hawk-eye should be in every ground but the very least the players deserve is umpires trained above the level of an eyesight report.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 05/05/2014 17:41:31    1584394

l couldn't agree more perfect. Some terrible decisions over the weekend in both the league final and the 21s football. In fairness the football ref was over-ruling umpires but that should have happened in Thurles for at least two point decisions. How the name of god some of them get picked to do the job is beyond me when they can't tell obvious 45s, 65s, and points!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 05/05/2014 18:25:08    1584417

Umpires at county and club should be referees with a real input into the game..not jimmy down the road.. Let the top guys ref and those not quite at that level umpire and do line

crossfieldball (Galway) - Posts: 650 - 05/05/2014 18:35:18    1584420

doesn't the ref supply the umpires ??? so they are father/brother/uncle and neighbour and the likes.......... so i guess the onus is on the ref to make sure he picks good people..

freddy2 (Wexford) - Posts: 215 - 05/05/2014 18:48:55    1584422

I'm sure most of us have been stuck with being umpire at some stage but if you are then the onus is to be as alert as possible, making sure you get proper view. Some of them at big county games don't even bother moving ffs! And as someone said, they are the ref's mates. Not people who are good at what they do. Disgrace that big games are being won and lost by these eijits. Fella in Portlaoise last year's for Dubs/Cats replay was absolute joke. Wasn't biased, just incompetent. He called four points and 65s wrongly. Split 50:50 between both but that's not the point!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 05/05/2014 20:14:00    1584453

To my understanding the GAA have courses for the intercounty.

You will always get a few errors,hurling especially. Used to do it myself, and its not as easy as you think. Certainly though in football its not really forgiveable unless there is circumstances such as sun etc.

As to getting refs to do it, been a ref does not make you a good umpire etc. and there are not enough to go around.

Think the idea of keeping the same team is right.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 06/05/2014 09:27:43    1584492

In fairness it can be difficult at times to judge exactly where the sliotar went if it skins the post and travelling at speed. But why did the umpires on Sunday last have any difficulty observing a well built man, much bigger than a sliotar!, standing in the square for the. Tipp goal? In fact the scorer of the goal was always in before the sliotar but I would forgive them for that one as it was marginal. Strange, or is it, that the media didn't pick up on it yet they're not slow in criticising the same umpires for missing the points! Perhaps commentators ought to be more sympathetic towards officials when they themselves miss such obvious incidents!

Take that goal off Tipp, take the two points off Kilkeeny, the Cats would have won by two! In fact it wouldn't have gone to extra time.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 06/05/2014 09:51:01    1584496

It's time to forget the practice of the ref bringing his own umpires to championship and other big games. Each umpire should be an inter-county referee who has the power to bring issues to the match referee's attention.

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 06/05/2014 10:21:07    1584510

The umpires are suppose to bring square ball incidents to the attention of the ref. this they didn't do last Sunday. Who's to say refs, acting as umpires , would do any better. Barry Kelly allowed the Tipp free taker to advance more than ten yards for the last puck of the game in normal time. It lead to the draw.

In the same game the ref blew against a Kilkenny player for a square ball infringement. Talk about consistency! Back to my previous post, the umpires missed the square ball incident, the media ignored it yet they want to hammer umpires over the points. Talk about consistency!

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 06/05/2014 10:41:21    1584522

Look,

The easiest way to deal with all of this is to have an open draw and do away with the provincials as part of a championship format.

MUNSTER holding us all back.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 06/05/2014 12:09:48    1584555

West square balls are the hardest thing to judge and I would not hammer an umpire on it.

I suppose the best way to understand the level of umpiring is to measure the amount of mistakes made versus correct decisions.

Yes umpires get a few wrong but 99.99% right.

Why do people think refs would made good umpires? Don't see any logic in this, because you are a ref you are a good umpire?

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 06/05/2014 12:46:58    1584564

Just get rid of square balls and umpires!!!

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 06/05/2014 13:09:18    1584580

A few points on umpires. 1) if you watch the two umpires when Tipp scored they did not move for the flag they obviously got a shout from the ref.One umpire as well as the linesmen and fourth official were all miked up with the referee.2) the calls at the other end for the points were caused by the umpire being in the wrong position.3) all umpires at this level are tested and trained continuously and the referees assessor will dock marks off the refs score for poor decisions, signalling and communication.4) people are saying the umpires should have helped the ref on the penalty decisions but this is not part of their role or fun 5) refs do drop umpires who hold them back.

whistleblower (Tipperary) - Posts: 2 - 06/05/2014 14:23:10    1584617

If would have been difficult to judge that Bubbles was in the square before the sliotar for his goal but the. Tipp number 15 was already camped in the square. How could it be difficult to see that? Perhaps if he was the size of a mouse but you're talking about a fully grown adult!

The umpires are obliged to signal to the ref if there is a square infringement. Otherwise how could a ref be expected to see it for himself if he's out the field? Surely most people, if not all, have witnessed the umpires assisting refs in this regard frequently? Ref James Owens was also officiating in the Waterford v Kilkenny game last year when a similar incident occurred. By any chance did he have the same umpires? If yes, then Croke Park need to take action.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 06/05/2014 15:18:38    1584656

If would have been difficult to judge that Bubbles was in the square before the sliotar for his goal but the. Tipp number 15 was already camped in the square. How could it be difficult to see that? Perhaps if he was the size of a mouse but you're talking about a fully grown adult!

The umpires are obliged to signal to the ref if there is a square infringement. Otherwise how could a ref be expected to see it for himself if he's out the field? Surely most people, if not all, have witnessed the umpires assisting refs in this regard frequently? Ref James Owens was also officiating in the Waterford v Kilkenny game last year when a similar incident occurred. By any chance did he have the same umpires? If yes, then Croke Park need to take action.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 06/05/2014 15:32:49    1584664

White ball goes sailing past a white post, not as easy to see as you think especially if the ball is higher than the post or hit with power. Time to change the colour of one to help out.


Eddie Kehers solution would be to let the goalkeeper decide as they'd know best in a manly kilkenny way and wouldn't be cheating in any way, shape nor form as they're hurlers with an ingrained honesty in them.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 06/05/2014 16:03:27    1584681

Eddie Kehers solution would be to let the goalkeeper decide as they'd know best in a manly kilkenny way and wouldn't be cheating in any way, shape nor form as they're hurlers with an ingrained honesty in them.

Stop Bricktop your giving me cramps!!!!

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 06/05/2014 16:32:58    1584701

Yeah, and Tipp told the ref that their goal was a square ball! Are you from DOWN, another great hurling county!

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 06/05/2014 16:41:11    1584708

So Tipp want umpires who don't see Tipp players camped in opponents square!

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 06/05/2014 17:08:18    1584731

Referee's / Umpires dictate all major decisions on the day and we will just have to live with it. Part & parcel of our great games.

Every county at some stage in the past 20 years has had an issue by where a referee decision may have had a final say on the outcome.

Its only human we all blow a fuse after a game where we see errors but look the bulk of us understand as some posters put already not an easy job than it seems.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 06/05/2014 17:23:14    1584744