mod
County: Mayo
Posts: 669

1554266
Back to the facts Since Jan30th Rugby related programming on rte now stands at 46h:55min (courtesy of @rtewatch) Gaa related sports programming stands at 5hrs in the same period. So that is 46h:55min in roughly one month. Much of that is not 6 Nations. It includes at least 6h of Rabo (3 matches)U20 Internationals Women's International; and a number of programmes such as "Grand Slam year" or "The 2009 season" (not sure of exact titles). Even the quality of the programmes such as Against The Head where clearly money is no object is miles ahead of League Sunday with its on the pitch location for interviews analysis etc. If there is that much money to spend on sport should it not be shared out more equitably.


The reason Rugby dominates this time of year is that it is the peak of the national team's interest - apart from in a world cup year. This has a knock-on effect on underage, womens games etc.

But compare the amount of coverage Rugby is currently getting to that which the GAA will receive throughout the Summer - i.e. its peak time of year! You also have to take into account that only 50k people can attent a rugby match live in this country and a fraction of that can travel to away games. It is moreso in the GAA's interest to encourage more to attend by not showing these games than it is for the IRFU to deprive hundreds of thousands from seeing a televised match.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5244 - 04/03/2014 13:47:52    1554545

Just to stir the pot...last June 16th, RTÉ had a domestic AND an Australian-based rugby correspondent covering the Lions. The Lions, not Ireland. There was an interview about a game the Lions had played (against NSW), or were going to play (against ACT), being done on the 6 o clock news. Simultaneously, the All Ireland hurling finalists and Leinster champions were having the bejaysus scared out of them in Port Laoise. RTÉ did not have even a camera present for the Leinster semi final. Bear in mind, this was a full week before any of the matches against Australia.

The autumn internationals are matches which are free-standing and not part of a competition. Therefore they are non-competitive matches. Whether this renders them challenge matches or not can be debated until the cows come home. It is rather disingenuous, however, to pooh-pooh Ireland's non-competitive soccer matches in comparison, when it is apparent to any neutral observer that the field of rugby playing nations, being so incestuously small that England welcomed a stolen Samoan back to the panel today, naturally throws up repeat, eh, 'free-standing non-competitive matches' very frequently, because who else are we gonna play? Turn to the truly global world of soccer, however, and said world is your oyster- tens of nations at a similiar level, so literally decades can pass before we face the same team again.

I avidly watch rugby and soccer. There are some great games, some awful games. However, the idea that rugby is global rather than confined to regional pockets cannot be taken seriously, and it doesn't mean one is any less of a fan by acknowledging it.

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 04/03/2014 14:08:08    1554560

KeyserSoze

no your whole point was geared at tv stations only put on things they think will make money for them
hence why you suggested they show dublin footballers on setanta all the time
then stated there is no interest in showing dublin hurlers
yet they have been on twice on sunday on tv
the same deferred coverage that the footballers got when they too played on a sunday
if theres no interest then why where they on twice?

haha your presuming alot there without knowing anything
im not into soccer at all pal haha
oh come off it you sound like ormond here
heavily influenced by this whole marketing gimic of calling them a fancy name
instead of challenge match
its the exact same thing as they are one off games with nothing at stake
so you must think the dublin decider between liverpool and celtic wasnt a challenge game either
on the basis it had a fancy name too
yes for new zealand it was a challenege match entirely
ireland have never beat them so it was a chance to try do that but with nothing at stake
do you think nugent would let sky take the rugby rights if they offered the money
im sure he would pull the cheque book out to ensure they didnt

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/03/2014 14:14:41    1554564

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 6782

They are not "challenge matches".
They are international test matches of a higher standard than most other games. The standard of the New Zealand game was higher than anything else the irish players played last season. They were shown on RTE because of the interest from the public in the games.
The friendlies were sold to Sky as RTE probably did have an interest but simply couldnt outbid Sky for them

they are challenege matches
soccer call them friendlys
rugby call them test matches
gaa call them challenge matches
they are all the exact same thing
yeah exactly new zealand are top 3 team
where as they play as you call it one of the worlds best sporting competitions against
no side who would be considered a top 3 team so of course the standard be better against new zealand b team
do you think if the same thing happened the rugby friendlys
that sky came looking would rte not up their money to keep them?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/03/2014 14:18:52    1554569

hill16no1man



"Friendlies" in soccer are deserving of the term as there are less FIFA ranking points available and they do not hold knock-on effects for upcoming competitions (World Cup/Euros, etc.)

In rugby, Autumn Internationals carry ranking points which (as was the case for Ireland in 2012) directly effects your seeding in a World Cup.

So there is a clear and very important difference.

Incidentally, your League position or "Ranking" in GAA has no bearing on your Championship seeding. . .

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5244 - 04/03/2014 14:26:07    1554578

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 6782

There would be more especially for a national side over 2 individual counties. More people will care about how a national side of a fairly strong sport will do and they will watch that over 2 countys.
You havent a clue if you think nearly all the games have second teams out and that rugby players could play mid week like they do in soccer. It physically isnt possible to play saturday or sunday then tuesday or wednesday then saturday or sunday again for a few weeks in a row. There would be way too many injuries and it would be putting peoples health at risk to be playing that many games.
The provinces would get the crowds but the players wouldnt be physically capable of playing that much

you think because its a national team it means everybody watches it?
do you think because only two countys are represented if dublin play meath
that means only two countys watch it haha
you not think gaa people all over the country
turn in every sunday when the championship is on to watch the sunday game
so people from kerry or cork or tyrone or donegal dont watch any matches only there own?
no they wont if somebody rathers gaa they will watch it over a sport they dont like as much
i for one watched kildare v mayo and cork v westmeath two football games the same day ireland were playing rugby last month
then why do I hear time and time again on the news that leinster or munster make 10 or 11 changes
for this weeks heniken cup team to the one who played in the rabo last week?
oh come off it physicaly not possible
thats because they are not conditioned right in that case
its an athletic sport supposed to be
they dont work they get paid to train
if you cannot work two days a week on a building site you would be fired
gaa players a lot of them play saturday night for dublin and then play sunday for the club during the league

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/03/2014 14:28:55    1554579

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 6782

You dont hear me complaining about minor hurling/football being shown on tv. Those games are the equivalent of the irish under 20 games.
You are pathetically anti rugby it is hilarious how deludedly anti rugby you are....
There is more than one top team in the world in the 6Nations and that is a fact

how often do rte show minor football or hurling tell me?
in fact they dont even have the all ireland minor finals tv3 has
they dont show a single under 21 match
im not atni rugby at all im just stating how ryle nugent is rugby only
and you are too afraid to admit it because you ar rugby only
who is the top team in the six nations ?
the three top teams are new zealand , south africa and australia
and the last time i checked they dont play in the six nations

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/03/2014 14:32:49    1554584

04/03/2014 14:08:08 an tseabhac
Just to stir the pot...last June 16th, RTÉ had a domestic AND an Australian-based rugby correspondent covering the Lions. The Lions, not Ireland. There was an interview about a game the Lions had played (against NSW), or were going to play (against ACT), being done on the 6 o clock news. Simultaneously, the All Ireland hurling finalists and Leinster champions were having the bejaysus scared out of them in Port Laoise. RTÉ did not have even a camera present for the Leinster semi final. Bear in mind, this was a full week before any of the matches against Australia.
The autumn internationals are matches which are free-standing and not part of a competition. Therefore they are non-competitive matches. Whether this renders them challenge matches or not can be debated until the cows come home. It is rather disingenuous, however, to pooh-pooh Ireland's non-competitive soccer matches in comparison, when it is apparent to any neutral observer that the field of rugby playing nations, being so incestuously small that England welcomed a stolen Samoan back to the panel today, naturally throws up repeat, eh, 'free-standing non-competitive matches' very frequently, because who else are we gonna play? Turn to the truly global world of soccer, however, and said world is your oyster- tens of nations at a similiar level, so literally decades can pass before we face the same team again.
I avidly watch rugby and soccer. There are some great games, some awful games. However, the idea that rugby is global rather than confined to regional pockets cannot be taken seriously, and it doesn't mean one is any less of a fan by acknowledging it. RTE cant cover everything, they already had cameras out in Oz so were always going to cover that.
England didnt steal any somoan or anyone else. Tuilagi has spent the majority of his life in England. He has as much right as anyone else to play for England. He has been schooled in england, played all rugby in england.
Rugby is global. Their is a very indepth competition with numerous divisions in europe(check FIRA-AER website for more info).
The Asian and African and american cup competitions are very competitive

04/03/2014 14:14:41
hill16no1man
oh come off it you sound like ormond here
heavily influenced by this whole marketing gimic of calling them a fancy name
instead of challenge match
its the exact same thing as they are one off games with nothing at stake
so you must think the dublin decider between liverpool and celtic wasnt a challenge game either
on the basis it had a fancy name too
yes for new zealand it was a challenege match entirely
ireland have never beat them so it was a chance to try do that but with nothing at stake
do you think nugent would let sky take the rugby rights if they offered the money
im sure he would pull the cheque book out to ensure they didnt
Challenge match implies players dont care and the results are meaningless. Bad performances in these games affects world rankings which affects future world cup draws which affects money in the sport which affects the sport at every level from under 8 up.
They are neither one off games nor have nothing at stake.
It wouldnt be Nugents decision. Nugent doesnt have the deep pockets Sky have and if RTE got in a bidding war with Sky they would always lose out

04/03/2014 14:18:52
hill16no1man
they are challenege matches
soccer call them friendlys
rugby call them test matches
gaa call them challenge matches
they are all the exact same thing
yeah exactly new zealand are top 3 team
where as they play as you call it one of the worlds best sporting competitions against
no side who would be considered a top 3 team so of course the standard be better against new zealand b team
do you think if the same thing happened the rugby friendlys
that sky came looking would rte not up their money to keep them?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/03/2014 14:48:39    1554609

ormond

they are challenge games end of man
there is no points at stake no place in the next round
your scraping the barrel saying ranking points come on like

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/03/2014 16:26:20    1554724

ormondbannerman,

That is no defence of RTÉ- why didn't they have the camera, being used to talk to Michael Corcoran (IIRC) in what appeared to be the Montrose back garden, down in Port Laoise? You have addressed the WHAT, but not the WHY. It was an interview in between 2 games by a multinational team of nebulous and ineffable identity against club sides. The Leinster champions were defending their title in Port Laoise, yet there wasn't even a camera to record a match report.

It's not right or wrong, but I think it is very hard to deny that when a sideshow- nay, a conversation about a sideshow- in international rugby terms, of questionable national interest, is prioritized ahead of a live senior championship hurling match, that RTÉ may have increased its emphasis on rugby vis-a-vis GAA compared to when, say Brendan Reilly was working there.

PS Tuilagi's 5 elder brothers played for Samoa; he was born and spent his childhood there. I've spent most of my life outside Ciarraí at this stage but I'd still consider that's where my allegiance lies. Go ahead and defend Brad Barritt now! Anyway that's beside the point, I was just after reading it and this opportunisitic NZ-style poaching really irritates me, but it has nothing to do with the issue.

PPS I can see you'll never be moved from the old rugby-is-global mantra (though nice to see you abandoned the no-challenge-games one). Once again in the absence of clear definitions this is an argument that cannot be proved or disproved. However, one may as well claim that GAA is global, given the fact that it is played on four continents. Go ahead and disprove me! What's it gonna be, "there is no international competition", so? Does that define it?!? You'll have to hurry though, I'm giving up the forum for Lent!

PPPS The bits in bold basically summarize my argument :)

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 04/03/2014 16:36:26    1554736

04/03/2014 14:26:07
cavanman47
County: Cavan
Posts: 795
"Friendlies" in soccer are deserving of the term as there are less FIFA ranking points available...

In rugby, Autumn Internationals carry ranking points...

So what's the tipping point (if you'll pardon the pun)? At what number of ranking points does the arbiter say "Stop! Any more and it's not a 'friendly'?
Seriously dude.

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 04/03/2014 16:39:58    1554741

an tseabhac
County: Kerry
Posts: 310

1554741
04/03/2014 14:26:07
cavanman47
County: Cavan
Posts: 795
"Friendlies" in soccer are deserving of the term as there are less FIFA ranking points available...

In rugby, Autumn Internationals carry ranking points...

So what's the tipping point (if you'll pardon the pun)? At what number of ranking points does the arbiter say "Stop! Any more and it's not a 'friendly'?
Seriously dude.

hahaha love it

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/03/2014 17:05:49    1554766

an tseabhac


the tipping point essentially comes down to how differently the games are approached in either sport.

In rugby, they are an opportunity to move into the top 4, second group of 4, etc. in the world rankings - which carries significant and long-lasting impact on future tournaments, namely the World Cup.

In soccer, they are a chance to blood young players, as qualifiers allow teams to determine their fate with regard to major tournaments.

My overall point still being; In rugby, they are significant, in soccer and gaelic football, they are not - because they are not approached as such.

So it is more likely that you will witness a higher standard of match in Rugby - which has indeed been the case over the past decade or so. (This is not me being biased to Rugby - I am an avid follower of all 3 sports, Gaelic Football moreso than the other 2)

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5244 - 04/03/2014 17:15:32    1554776

Unfortunately Ireland has an awful lot of complainers, and in the current state that the country is in, this is even amplified. But one of the main issues is that RTE and the likes hire these complainers to do the analysis. Joe Brolley, Pat Spillane, Colm O'Rourke, Anthony Tohill, Tony Davis, Kevin McStay, Sligo lad can't think of his name, all complainers!! At times they can be optimistic but more often than not they complain and highlight controversy. Take a look at the rugby commentators, you have only one complainer in Hooke, Pope and O'Shea are generally pretty glass half full kind of guys. RTE should get rid of these guys and bring in better guys. Ciaran Whelan is good, Seanan isn't bad, Darragh is good when Kerry aren't involved. There's plenty guys around that wouldn't be as grumpy as the shower employed at the minute. Praise the games more from the top and hopefully it will filter everywhere. There is constant convos about rule changes, championship format changes, blah blah blah. Enjoy the game for what it is!! If Brolly hadn't gone of such a rant would we have seen the intro of the black card?? Thank god the hurling community had some sense and dropped the "Nash" rule. If you watch any of the "american" sports, there is very little complaining, they will highlight the HIGHLIGHTS, top 10 plays etc. unlike RTE who highlight the off the ball incidents, the cynical tackles.

In regards to RTE's coverage of GAA. It's a non-subscription channel (2 channels), that has to cover the whole countries interests, they can't show GAA constantly, then Rugby fans, soccer fans, cooking show fans, Fair city fans, would be annoyed. If there was real money and interest in the GAA, they should create a GAA channel and take the rights off of RTE, or RTE create a GAA channel. The TV licenses don't cover a whole lot, if you want good tv be prepared to pay for it. Honestly if there was money to be made in this it would probably be done already. It's grand for HS posters to ask for more games to be shown, but how does the rest of the country feel. Of all my friends I'd probably be the only one, or perhaps a very select few who would actually pay a subscription for all the games. I'm living in a city in Calgary where we show the games at the Irish centre, there's a couple of thousand Irish here now at this stage, but still All Ireland day we get max 120 people, early championship games sometimes you're lucky to find 10 in there. I really don't think it's financially viable for TV stations to show as much coverage as you guys are looking for!

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 04/03/2014 17:34:36    1554787

jmk

i agree with you in regards the pundits
if you want apositive pundit they dont come much better then senan connell
the guy only ever talks about phenominal this or outstanding that haha
not bigging him up as great pundit but in terms of positivity
he is really good for the game will always praise things that happened in a match
dont agree with you in regards the tv end of it
you say the league musnt have the interest to show it on rte
but yet they show womens rugby now and underage rugby
there is no interest for that at all
so its not looking for total gaa on tv
its looking for gaa on rte for more then only the summer

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 04/03/2014 19:06:50    1554835

04/03/2014 14:18:52 hill16no1man
they are challenege matches, soccer call them friendlys
rugby call them test matches
gaa call them challenge matches
they are all the exact same thing
yeah exactly new zealand are top 3 team
where as they play as you call it one of the worlds best sporting competitions against no side who would be considered a top 3 team so of course the standard be better against new zealand b team do you think if the same thing happened the rugby friendlys
that sky came looking would rte not up their money to keep them? They are more than friendlies. They are the only chances to play the big 3 nations outside of a world cup. They are not the exact same thing as GAA "Challenge matches". Challenge matches rarely if ever hit the intensity of championship matches in hurling/football while it is often the case that 6 nations games don't get near intensity/pace etc of November internationals.
A rugby test match is very different to a gaa challenge match.

04/03/2014 16:26:20
hill16no1man
ormond, they are challenge games end of man
there is no points at stake no place in the next round
your scraping the barrel saying ranking points come on like there is world ranking points at stake. Not scraping the barrel at all saying they matter as they determine your ranking which affects the world cup draw you get and affects your funding status as if you are higher in rankings its better for pr/marketing purposes. If you have low ranking sponsors less likely to get involved,
ranking points vitally important

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/03/2014 19:35:11    1554855

Ya Hill16 fair enough, I'm out of the loop a bit in regards to what RTE show and don't show. Honestly I wish all the rights were given to TG4 as I can watch that online easily, RTE have restrictions. But there's got to be some reason for them showing rugby over the NFL/NHL. I dunno perhaps it's because of all the airtime GAA gets in the summertime that they try to spread the coverage around. Perhaps there is investment coming from the IRFU to advertise rugby more who knows. But still it is going to be hard to cover 32 counties in hurling and football, and underage as some people are saying, for a country of 6.5 million people. It's just not feasible. Top sports in America etc. keep the number to around 30 teams (franchises), and they have over 300 million people, with worldwide attention on top of that. Rugby has good coverage of Rabopro12 etc. but they only have to deal with 4 teams in that. I just think it's very easy to shout for more coverage of National leagues, but honestly if it was financially viable, i think they would - money drives most things. What I can't understand is how counties don't do a little bit more online stuff. Dr Crokes for awhile used to stream some of their games online, sure it only has the 1 camera angle but sure wouldn't that make people happy. It wouldn't even cost that much really.

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 04/03/2014 19:54:52    1554863

04/03/2014 16:36:26 an tseabhac
ormondbannerman, That is no defence of RTÉ- why didn't they have the camera, being used to talk to Michael Corcoran (IIRC) in what appeared to be the Montrose back garden, down in Port Laoise? You have addressed the WHAT, but not the WHY. It was an interview in between 2 games by a multinational team of nebulous and ineffable identity against club sides. The Leinster champions were defending their title in Port Laoise, yet there wasn't even a camera to record a match report.
It's not right or wrong, but I think it is very hard to deny that when a sideshow- nay, a conversation about a sideshow- in international rugby terms, of questionable national interest, is prioritized ahead of a live senior championship hurling match, that RTÉ may have increased its emphasis on rugby vis-a-vis GAA compared to when, say Brendan Reilly was working there.
PS Tuilagi's 5 elder brothers played for Samoa; he was born and spent his childhood there. I've spent most of my life outside Ciarraí at this stage but I'd still consider that's where my allegiance lies. Go ahead and defend Brad Barritt now! Anyway that's beside the point, I was just after reading it and this opportunisitic NZ-style poaching really irritates me, but it has nothing to do with the issue.
PPS I can see you'll never be moved from the old rugby-is-global mantra (though nice to see you abandoned the no-challenge-games one). Once again in the absence of clear definitions this is an argument that cannot be proved or disproved. However, one may as well claim that GAA is global, given the fact that it is played on four continents. Go ahead and disprove me! What's it gonna be, "there is no international competition", so? Does that define it?!? You'll have to hurry though, I'm giving up the forum for Lent!
PPPS The bits in bold basically summarize my argument :)
Manu Tuilagi who plays for England has been living in England since he was a kid. He went to school in England, grew up in England. Spent large proportion of life especially period where he developed most as a rugby player in England
What is vague about the Lions identity? Fairly clear and obvious. 4 sides normally rivals uniting as one to take on the traditional strongest countries in the sport.
I know that Tuilagi's brothers all have or had played for the country of their birth but they were all in different circumstances to Manusamoa Tuilagi. He clearly identified more with England and chose to play in the country he grew up in than the country of his birth.
NZ don't really poach and its more likely for NZ born players to play with other countries than for players from the islands like Samoa, Fiji, Tonga, Vanuatu etc to play for NZ.
Rugby is global. Just look at FIRA-AER forum for news on all European competitions. Asian 5 Nations is big tournament in Asia with Japanese pro league being a big money league with most teams sponsored by the big companies in Japan
Brad Barritts grandparents were English, his parents had Rhodesian passports which made him eligible for England.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/03/2014 19:55:33    1554865

Hill you're right about Senan

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 04/03/2014 19:57:15    1554866

04/03/2014 19:06:50
hill16no1man
dont agree with you in regards the tv end of it
you say the league musnt have the interest to show it on rte
but yet they show womens rugby now and underage rugby
there is no interest for that at all
so its not looking for total gaa on tv
its looking for gaa on rte for more then only the summer Womens rugby was only covered by RTE due to a social media campaign so there clearly is interest in showing games. RTE press office tweeted that there were 291,900 viewers / 18% share of the women's match on Saturday evening.
So that's decent enough audience.
TG4 show the league they have the rights. Setanta show the league as they have the rights. RTE clearly feel they don't need to show games or were out bid by those channels.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/03/2014 20:01:52    1554873