I think they are a different competition also. So if the lads are u17 in 2014 they are eligible. I remember around 10yrs ago St Brigids lodged an appeal that Mark Vaughan was in eligible to play in a championship match as he had to serve a one match suspension after being sent off in the previous All Ireland Club semi final and received a one match championship ban. Vaughan played the match destroying Brigids and Crokes won by a point. An appeal was lodged and it was stated that both were different competitions and instead Vaughan would serve his ban the next time Crokes got to an All Ireland semi final which years after he served.

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 22/02/2014 12:52:06    1549936

I don't like when posters use sour grapes as an excuse for a loss. They are well within their rights to seek clarity if the rules are unclear. If ballysaggart had done the same I would think creggan would also b objecting. Let the people who make the rules decide whether or not they were broken.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 22/02/2014 12:53:51    1549937

There was a large amount of 'bad-sportmanship' - to blame the referee for a loss is a great example of the blame game!!!!!

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1688 - 22/02/2014 16:15:33    1550003

Win at all costs lads. Its a far fairer way to win a game than deliberately fouling an opponent.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 22/02/2014 18:33:37    1550054

(Part 1)
Very divisive issue. Crossfieldball on page 2 had his say, and the very next two posts said "Crossfieldball Rubbish" and "crossfieldball you are spot on".

Right, a lot of people have been of the opinion that Ballysaggart are guilty of sour grapes, that they had two attempts to win it, and they couldn't beat a team that had to rely on a couple of 16-year-olds, and they followed up their defeat by lambasting the referee, then they mocked their opponents by calling them a football team (pity I missed those comments, they sounded like good craic!!!), and finally they decided to nail Creggan cos they had under-age players. Now, while the whole thing does stink of sour grapes, rules are rules at the same time, and a team is entitled to make an objection based on the ineligibility, for whatever reason, of a player on the opposition. Just because the players are young fellas, that doesn't matter. If the latest hurling prodigy was 9 years old (or even 89, it doesn't matter) and played on the game and was as good as 10 Christy Rings plus 10 Henry Shefflins, then he'd be good enough to play on the team, not considering the rules about age. So you can't bring that into it, i.e. saying that Ballysaggart are throwing a tantrum cos they couldn't beat a team with two gossons (or OAPs; again, it doesn't matter). If you're good enough you're good enough.

And there's our dilemma. I wrote something about this somewhere else as well but I can't find it. I'm not able to see any of the comments any more that appear at the bottom of any of the articles about the saga.

Rule 6.13 of the (pardon my spelling) Treoir Oifigiúil (TO) 2013 states eligibility for Inter-Club Junior Grade, and begins "Subject to Age Restrictions set out in Rule 6.16" before going on to say who's ineligible based on grade and stuff. Rule 6.16 then deals with a player's age and sets out that for a player to be eligible for the Adult grade, he/she must "be over 16 years". Also: "To be 'Over' an age shall mean that the player shall have celebrated the Lower Limit birthday (e.g. 16th. to participate in Senior/Under 21 Grades) prior to the 1st. January of the Championship Year. Adult shall include Senior, Intermediate and Junior Grades."

Rule 6.24 of the TO 2013 states: "The County, Provincial and All-Ireland Stages of the respective Club Senior, Intermediate and Junior Football and Hurling Championships constitute the one Competition." That's interesting (and it seems to contradict what some posters here have said). Whether that has the knock-on effect of making 2014 the Championship Year as defined in Rule 6.16 is another thing. Maybe it's the same championship but because the All-Ireland part of it is in 2014 it's a different championship year, I dunno. There's logic for either argument in my opinion (i.e. it's the same championship year because it's the same championship vs. it's a different championship year cos it's a different year), so it comes down to what is actually set out in the rules, or if not, what the precedent is, if there is one.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1198 - 22/02/2014 21:49:43    1550135

(Part 2)
Now, precedent is a big thing, but I would be worried if similar or identical cases in the past have been decided at odds with the Official Guide (i.e. TO). I don't know anything about the other cases of player ineligibility that have been mentioned on this topic. Bredaghman mentions such a case at the top of page 3. Game.on.now.ger provides the link to another case at the bottom of page 3, which I can only assume was dealt with by Limerick's CCCC as opposed to any national committee, but the national rule would appear to apply. Dubshurling7 provides another example at the top of page 5.

All in all, it's rather unfortunate, especially considering the penalty: "On a Proven Objection - Award of Game to Opposing Team." If the objection is successful and the letter of the law is followed, Ballysaggart will get the title. And by the way, did these young guys play in the drawn game? Why wasn't an objection raised then? Stuff like that only serves to heighten the idea of sour grapes.

By the way, when is the appeal being held? Or has it already? What was the result?

Responses to other posts
TyrGael09 (page 3), no-one is ridiculing two 16-year-olds for being talented. And no-one is trying to forbid them from showing their talent on the greatest stage, at least not like that; I'm pretty sure the rule is there to prevent player burnout. The last thing anyone wants is a youngster from somewhere like Cork or Galway being made to play for the club's football AND hurling teams at U-16, Minor, U-21 and Senior level... and the county's football AND hurling teams at U-16, Minor, U-21 and Senior level.

Offside_Rule (page 4), you ask about appeals. From what I can see, an objection gets lodged and sets out the grounds for the objection with reference to the rules and/or bye-laws broken. Whether or not then it's frivolous is another thing, although I can't imagine that being the case as there's a €100 fee for a club objection (refunded if successful).

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1198 - 22/02/2014 21:50:03    1550136

So Ballysaggart mentor Pat Bennett has apologised for his outrageous comments after the Creggan defeat.....big deal! In my opinion it is far too little too late and the damage has already been done. Ballysaggart should go a step further and withdraw their objection to Creggan's victory. I only hope this is not a preface, or deal, for Croke Park taking Creggan's title off them by some grey rule.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9819 - 25/02/2014 16:45:46    1551229

So when does an illegal player become "OK" then?

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 25/02/2014 16:57:31    1551236

Bennett a week late with that apology,any word on is the final to be replayed?

HandyMoran (Roscommon) - Posts: 327 - 25/02/2014 17:34:58    1551257

I thought this would've been dealt with by now. What's the delay? Either the players were eligible or not!

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 25/02/2014 18:43:09    1551291

Ulsterman why should they withdraw their objection?

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 25/02/2014 19:40:52    1551335

ulsterman ive read all comments but keep coming back to yours. what has this got to do with the county board, waterford gaa in general? im not from the ballysaggart parrish but i do see why they would lodge an appeal, not saying im in suppport of it, but i can see why they did, just cant see what the county board has to do with it? telling waterford hang their heads in shame and all this rubbish??? ye werent so rude when waterford gaa took care of jude mccrudy when he had a serious neck injury in minor game v waterford in ashbourne last year afterwhich he personally thanked waterford medics and team for everything they did for him. just because b'saggart are from the county why should i be ashamed?? im dont follow them, i follow my own parrish and my county team.

juniorjudge (Waterford) - Posts: 383 - 25/02/2014 19:47:20    1551338

LINK to similar issue

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5522 - 25/02/2014 20:25:40    1551362

s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 2648

1551362
LINK to similar issue

Thats very unclear as to when the lad was u-16 though so it cant really be compared. Also to respond to I think Naysayer, the player in my example was u16 in 2012 and therefore u17 in 2013, when he was part of the match day squad. he didnt end up playing a role but easily could have. Once he was named in the squad that's the precedent set.

square_ball_69 (Westmeath) - Posts: 826 - 25/02/2014 20:35:33    1551367

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 6671

1551229
So Ballysaggart mentor Pat Bennett has apologised for his outrageous comments after the Creggan defeat.....big deal! In my opinion it is far too little too late and the damage has already been done...

Try Christian philosophy sometime Ulsterman. You'll live a longer and happier life!

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 26/02/2014 16:50:39    1551655

Any conclusion to this yet

kikfada (Louth) - Posts: 2091 - 27/02/2014 09:39:13    1551821

the amount of hurlers on the ditch here is laughable. The Ulster brigade as usual think it is some vendetta against them when in fact its the Antrim team broke the rules. Ballysaggart didn't break any rules yet they are the ones being ridiculed. If you played for a small rural club like Ballysaggart (a population of 250 people)and your once in a lifetime chance at All Ireland glory was gone only for you to find out after the game that the opposition fielded 2 illegal players, are you all telling me yed just roll over and 'take your beating'

deisebhoy (Waterford) - Posts: 416 - 27/02/2014 10:21:49    1551834

How many people live in ballysaggert again, ive forgotten already!!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 27/02/2014 10:33:25    1551843

By the way Creggan are also a small rural club if this is one of the criteria for deciding right and wrong!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 27/02/2014 10:34:50    1551846

deisebhoy
County: Waterford
Posts: 384

"are you all telling me yed just roll over and 'take your beating"

if I was beat by a team with 2 kids then I'd "take my beating" as obviously Ballysaggart weren't the better team on the day. I'd understand the objection it it was a junvenile/minor game or something but the have grown men beat by a team with 2 kids on it, and then whinge about an injustice is pathetic. Grow some, and accept the beating.

yes rules were possibly broken, but by 2 kids, not even adults!

freddy2 (Wexford) - Posts: 215 - 27/02/2014 10:42:02    1551852