Ringo,

I've also read other reports that the young Bennett's were subject to a lot of physical treatment and abuse from Creggan - one story of one of them getting hit by three men when attepting to come out and take a free, being floored by the third attempt.


wherever you read or heard this ringo is a totally innacurate series of events. Ballysaggart had won a sideline ball from young Bennett putting pressure on a creggan man. On his way back to his position he went out of his way to shoulder, hit with a hurl and push three of the opposition. he finally met his match when he reached his marker who braced himself for the shoulder and sent him flying, for which the creggan man got sent off. Bennett also felt the need to hit a shoulder to a creggan man leaving the field after being substituted. I could go on but will leave it at that. There is a player in that match who was very lucky to remain on the field and only did so as a linesman decided to turn a blind eye to his antics.

The problem here is the written or online media and the bias that it can contain.

frankbhoy77 (Antrim) - Posts: 1300 - 17/02/2014 14:13:03    1547377

It's also like when a southern ref does a game in the ulster championship and doesn't let lads hang out of eachother or nail eachother.

We then hear about how a southern ref shouldn't be allowed to do those games. However the rules are the same no matter what part of the country your in.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 17/02/2014 14:13:05    1547378

good god;

Big hurling matches should be left to referees who know hurling. Lets be honest the referee in Clare will know the finer detail alot better than a ref from a weaker hurling county and like wise with football.

So, every single hurling referee in Galway will be better at refereeing that say someone from Westmeath, Laois or some other non-tradition hurling county?

I have the lad that let Johnny Maher of Loughrea away with blue murder in a Galway county final a few years back in mind!!

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 17/02/2014 14:50:48    1547408

"Big hurling matches should be left to referees who know hurling. Lets be honest the referee in Clare will know the finer detail alot better than a ref from a weaker hurling county and like wise with football."

A direct strike across a man's hand whilst in mid air catching the sliothar with no attempt to play the ball is a yellow card (at least) whether you are form Clare, Galway, Wicklow or Timbuktu

A shoulder charge to a mans face is a yellow card regardless of where you hail.

The finer detail is that these two fouls were indeed fouls and so the sending off was accurate and the father's personal attack against the referee is totally wrong and he should maybe have a closer read of the rule book before his team's next day out!

skillstar93 (Antrim) - Posts: 41 - 17/02/2014 15:11:33    1547427

Firstly I never used the term "non traditional" and secondly Laois and Westmeath are very much up there in hurling as far as i'm concerned.

I was simply making the point that there is a huge difference between a club game here in Galway and a club game in Wicklow in terms of Standard, speed, skill set, intensity and quality. That is a fact! The referring is also at a different level, not in terms of quality but in terms common sense.

Take a hurling man and tell him to referee football and he'll do it exactly as the book tells him too. take a football man and tell him to referee a hurling game and he'll do it exactly as the book tells him too. Common sense is the greatest tool available to a referee and all im saying is that differs from county to county.

In particular with hurling the refereeing differs from county to county. Example: A few years back I was at the Feile Na Gael at my local pitch where a longford and Louth team were playing. The rules of the game were taken literally. A young lad took 5 steps there was uproar a shoulder to shoulder when one lad hit the deck almost caused world war 3. Mostly stemming from the mentors Why?? Because in charge that day was a very good referee who had done numerous big matches and applied his common sense.

All im saying is use a referee who has referred at that intensity and knows and has experience of how to use common sense.

crossfieldball (Galway) - Posts: 650 - 17/02/2014 15:47:37    1547467

"A few years back I was at the Feile Na Gael at my local pitch where a longford and Louth team were playing. The rules of the game were taken literally. A young lad took 5 steps there was uproar a shoulder to shoulder when one lad hit the deck almost caused world war 3. Mostly stemming from the mentors Why?? Because in charge that day was a very good referee who had done numerous big matches and applied his common sense."

Where & when exactly was that & which club from Longford???

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4105 - 17/02/2014 16:47:45    1547539

the standard of hurling refereeing in general is a joke...example, james mcgrath (westmeath) sent of Horgan in last years munster final which he shouldnt have and was eventually over ruled, may have cost cork the game, same referee a week ago didnt send off Joe Canning when he clearly should have, may have cost na piarsaigh the game, so tell me where the consistancy is?? its very frustrating for players when obvious decisions go against them because of poor refereeeing, a years training down the toilet due to poor decisions and weak refereeing.
kilkenny are masters of playing for frees, the old grab the opponents hurley under their arm and make it look as if they are being held, oldest trick in the book yet our referees cant even spot this...refereeing is a joke and it needs to be sorted out.
pat bennetts comments should be taken in the heat of the moment, but he has a point, football referees refereeing hurling matches...do you see kilkenny referees refereeing football all ireland finals??

willywonka (USA) - Posts: 50 - 17/02/2014 17:15:04    1547565

Willywonka
I was at the Na Piarsaigh/Portumna and the Galway team were just better and would probably have won even if Joe was sent off as the damage was done by then as Portumna were going in level with the gael force wind advantage to come. It could be said that the dismissal of Graeme Mulcahy last Saturday night gave the kick up the backside Limerick needed to throw themselves more wholeheartedly into that game and possibly caused Cork to relax 'safe in the knowledge that they now had the game won'.I am not convinced Cork would have won last years Munster final if Pat Horgan had stayed on either. If that team could not be motivated to make a more substantial effort that they did in the second half especially due to the nature of Pat's dismissal then they were not up to winning the title anyway, in my humble opinion.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4540 - 17/02/2014 20:41:23    1547696

Willwonka, from where I was standing the referee knew exactly what was a yellow card and unfortunately two players managed to pick up two of them, and no matter which code you ref two yellows makes a red.

frankbhoy77 (Antrim) - Posts: 1300 - 18/02/2014 12:00:28    1547878

Inconsistent Referring I can put up with, the two teams playing should be able to adapt to the fussy ref or the ref that lets the game flow. Mentors should be happy as long as the ref is not bias which I have seen so often ruin a game. I don't go to matches now if the ref is going to be your guys from Laois or Galway (not going to mention their names) but both seem to have a problem with Antrim. Mark my word a bias ref can win or loose you a game an inconsistent ref will not.

Brian_Coyote (Antrim) - Posts: 346 - 18/02/2014 12:21:04    1547889

Brian_Coyote - surely an inconsistent referee can lose you a game as much as a bias ref? Or more to the point how do you distinguish between the two? I don't mind a bad referee as long as he is bad for both teams (and consistently bad) but all too often in recent times (in Antrim leagues anyway) I have witnessed referees blowing for a foul one minute then letting the same thing go the next. If you are the team getting frees for example when the ref is deciding the incident is worthy of one you have probably more chance of winning the game than the other team who are not getting the decisions. But again, where do you draw the line between a ref who is just bad, leading to a lot of inconsistent decisions, against a ref who is inconsistent due to perhaps a bias towards or against one of the teams. Whatever the answer I hope that the whistle blowers in Antrim this year improve on their showing (for the most part) over the last couple of seasons.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 18/02/2014 12:49:21    1547916

crossfieldball
County: Galway
Posts: 504

1547467
Firstly I never used the term "non traditional" and secondly Laois and Westmeath are very much up there in hurling as far as i'm concerned.

I was simply making the point that there is a huge difference between a club game here in Galway and a club game in Wicklow in terms of Standard, speed, skill set, intensity and quality. That is a fact! The referring is also at a different level, not in terms of quality but in terms common sense.

Take a hurling man and tell him to referee football and he'll do it exactly as the book tells him too. take a football man and tell him to referee a hurling game and he'll do it exactly as the book tells him too. Common sense is the greatest tool available to a referee and all im saying is that differs from county to county.

In particular with hurling the refereeing differs from county to county. Example: A few years back I was at the Feile Na Gael at my local pitch where a longford and Louth team were playing. The rules of the game were taken literally. A young lad took 5 steps there was uproar a shoulder to shoulder when one lad hit the deck almost caused world war 3. Mostly stemming from the mentors Why?? Because in charge that day was a very good referee who had done numerous big matches and applied his common sense.

All im saying is use a referee who has referred at that intensity and knows and has experience of how to use common sense.



In my view, you have inadvertently described everything that is wrong with refereeing. A referees job should not be to apply common sense. Common sense is not a black and white idea when it comes to refereeing. Its not like an idea such as 'look both ways before you cross the road'. Referees interpretations will differ under a common sense approach as their subjectivity of particular incidents naturally cannot be expected to be consistent.

The only way to eliminate uncertainty in sport is by applying rules on an utterly consistent basis. Only then will players understand how they may act and what they may come to expect in relation to their actions. Of course this implies that the rules must make sense, be universally understood and cover all angles of uncertainty.

In hurling and football we do not have that at the moment; but if the game is to move forward in terms of an officiating capacity the common sense approach must make way to a complete and understood codification of how the games are to be played. Its a hangover of amateurism in an age where the championship in particular is generally viewed as anything but amateur.

All of the problems in our game, with the possible exception of diving and feigning injury are a result of the rules not keeping up with modern tactics and developments. Applying common sense on a match by match basis cannot solve these issues, only re-examining the rules will.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1663 - 18/02/2014 13:20:53    1547935

for two counties so close i thought the rules of hurling would be the same in Wicklow and Waterford. great win for Wicklow at the weekend with a ten point 'shock' win over Meath. How did Waterford do? Its not that long since Waterford were in Division 3 and been beaten by 'non hurling counties' like Kerry in the Munster... and conceeding 6-36 in Munster finals against Cork... Laois Carlow and Westmeath are all knocking at the top 12 door.... look at last years AI semis... no Kilkenny Galway or Tipp the three most fancied teams. Westmeath have provided the top referees over the last 5 years or so ... so these comments should be hit with a substantial fine or at least an apology. I'm surprised a newspaper like the examiner printed them in the first place.So good luck to referee John Keenan in his future career...and as for whingers and bad losers i've no time whatsoever for them.

onceaponatime (Louth) - Posts: 210 - 18/02/2014 13:35:23    1547945

Brin Cody referees all the kilkenny training games so i'm told...great intense hard hitting games i hear and Brian is a brilliant referee ...so good he never even blows his whistle until its over???

onceaponatime (Louth) - Posts: 210 - 18/02/2014 13:46:57    1547952

Typical hurling bs. Burn the firewood and play football. Disgraceful comments , but not surprising , let's be honest "hurling men" wouldn't exactly be members of Mensa. We all know the type, that modern film the quite man is a great film.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 18/02/2014 15:18:05    1548020

Looks like Creggan might be in a spot of bother. Seems a bit unfortunate, but I think Ballysaggart have a case here for a replay.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/ballysaggart-seeking-final-replay-259263.html#.UwRpNa1vbgk.twitter

ringo (Wexford) - Posts: 384 - 19/02/2014 09:46:01    1548353

"Hurling men wouldn't exactly be members of mensa" Royaldunne? Silly, childish comment.
There are plenty of rugby and soccer heads who'd say the same about gaelic football people.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 19/02/2014 09:52:02    1548357

Embarassing actions by the Waterford club now, up there with Cavan Gaels in the Ulster Minor Club a few years ago. But what was the title that Creggan won? Was it the All Ireland Junior Club Hurling Championship 2014 or 2013? Surely there is no case to answer here as it is a new year and if new rules are brought into football/hurling at the beginning of January and are enforced, then this contradicts the policy of playing to last years regulations.

geoff (Tyrone) - Posts: 377 - 19/02/2014 10:51:38    1548381

Was just wondering the same myself Geoff regarding what years competition is the AI Club classed as? The competitions which get you to the AI stages are the previous seasons County and Provincial championships but the AI competition is techically 2014 competition (in this scenario). Given that it is reported that Creggan didn't play him in last seasons competitions but did in the 2014 AI Club championship then to me that would say that they were aware of the rule and if they played him they must have been advised they could. If they didn't seek advice and went on ahead on the assumption that it is a new seasons competition then thats a bit of a risk to be taking.

FrankBhoy - any inside info on this one?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 19/02/2014 11:01:05    1548394

Somewhere in the last 'Examiner' report reference in made to the Drom-Broadford/Sean Finn Rathkeale game in Limerick. Though Sean Finns were initially thrown out of this competition for playing a player who was too young the final concerned was subsequently replayed and Sean Finns won it.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4540 - 19/02/2014 11:06:18    1548400