Thomas Clarke
County: Tyrone
Posts: 596

Any side who beats Dublin will need not only to be able to score heavily for 70+ minutes, but also have plenty of quality midfield/forward replacements to see out the last 10-15 minutes.

I don't agree Thomas. Trying to beat Dublin by being better at their game than they are is suicide. Nobody else has the forwards.

No, for me, the way to beat Dublin is to make them play the game on your terms, like Donegal tried to do in 2011.
Flood the midfield on Cluxton's kickouts & swarm for 70 minutes. The temprament of some Dublin players is, shall we say, suspect & once the head goes all things are possible. It might not be pretty & the sky might fall in on top of you but for Donegal in particular, with their backs, it would be the way to go.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 19/02/2014 11:12:20    1548405

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 2130

I don't agree Thomas. Trying to beat Dublin by being better at their game than they are is suicide. Nobody else has the forwards.

No, for me, the way to beat Dublin is to make them play the game on your terms, like Donegal tried to do in 2011.
Flood the midfield on Cluxton's kickouts & swarm for 70 minutes. The temprament of some Dublin players is, shall we say, suspect & once the head goes all things are possible. It might not be pretty & the sky might fall in on top of you but for Donegal in particular, with their backs, it would be the way to go.
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As I see it, the sides who came closest to beating Dublin last year were Kerry, and Tyrone twice in the league. On all three occasions those sides went man for man, played at a very high tempo and pushed up on the Dublin defence. All 3 games were high scoring, and in the two that Dublin won their bench was decisive. Push up high, keep a fast tempo, try to pressurise the defence into mistakes, and kick your scores. I'll admit that it's much easier said than done, but if Donegal (or anyone else) invites the Dubs onto them, I think you are asking for a tanking, especially with the new rules.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 19/02/2014 11:26:07    1548412

That is the reason why so few people want to see Donegal winning Muckrosshead. In any event their is little prospect of they winning Sam this year, based on their performances last year.

fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 602 - 19/02/2014 11:28:36    1548414

Tyrone are the only side to beat Dublin in a competitive match last year. They are on the mix, big time. Wouldn't put someone else's money on Kildare. Just don't like the look of their set up at all. No chance. Between Dubs, Tyrone, Mayo.

gaelantrim (Antrim) - Posts: 1616 - 19/02/2014 11:30:08    1548418

Tyrone are the only side to beat Dublin in a competitive match last year. They are on the mix, big time. Wouldn't put someone else's money on Kildare. Just don't like the look of their set up at all. No chance. Between Dubs, Tyrone, Mayo. I would add Donegal to that as a maybe.

gaelantrim (Antrim) - Posts: 1616 - 19/02/2014 11:32:20    1548420

Muckross, in theory that sounds plausible, but there is a gaping hole there. Say you do get a McGee or a Lacey etc to man mark or swarm Dublisn better forwards and say it works for 60 mins. Ye dont have the backs on the bench to bring on when that defender tires. If a Donegal back has been terrierlike all thru the game holding Bernard scoreless or Connolly scoreless, by the 60 min mark he will be as tired as the forward he is marking, but then Dublin spring a Dean Rock, a Kevin McManaman, a Paul Hudson, an Eogan O'Gara and he is fresh being taken on by a back who has 60 mins of running after Bernard Brogan in his legs. Unless ye spring a fresh man to counter act that who is of the same quality as the man he will replace, it just wont work.
To beat Dublin a team will neataly have to copy our policy of keeping potential starters on the bench to make winning impacts. Donegal would nearly want to keep 2 potential starters on the bench to come on after 50 mins to deal with whatever Dublin throw at them for the last 15/20 off the bench
Danger there is do you want sub standard defenders trying to keep the Brogans, Paul Mannion, Paul Flynn, Ciaran Kilkenny and Diarmuid Connolly quiet until this happens?

I know how arrogant this sounds but i shouldnt have to watch my words just cos they are the team i love, but the depth of the Dublin subs is pretty ridiculous!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8167 - 19/02/2014 11:33:04    1548423

gaelantrim
County: Antrim
Posts: 1536

1548420
Tyrone are the only side to beat Dublin in a competitive match last year. They are on the mix, big time. Wouldn't put someone else's money on Kildare. Just don't like the look of their set up at all. No chance. Between Dubs, Tyrone, Mayo. I would add Donegal to that as a maybe.
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A fairly experimental Dublin side... by a point...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 19/02/2014 11:38:04    1548428

Liamwalkinstown
County: Dublin
Posts: 5228

I know how arrogant this sounds but i shouldnt have to watch my words just cos they are the team i love, but the depth of the Dublin subs is pretty ridiculous!

Yes the subs are ridiculously good - It's a fair point, not being cocky if you can back it up and when Dublin do empty the bench, it more often than not, works.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 19/02/2014 11:41:12    1548430

Liam

If Donegal can hold Connolly et al scoreless after 60 minutes then the last 10 minutes won't matter a damn because We'll be out of sight!!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 19/02/2014 12:34:21    1548473

Fainleog
I would not be too worried about who wants or does not want to see Donegal win the All Ireland As j McG said after all the slagging Donegal got over 2011 semi final::: when we go training next winter we won't be trying to please P Spillane or anybody else for that matter, it only concerns the Donegal team,management and the Donegal supporters So I say the same ::: WE the Donegal supporters want to SEE Donegal win SAM ,WE won't be too worried what anybody else thinks as long as SAM sits on ERRIGLE

Don't forget Donegal Drew with Dublin last year in the leauge with appoint in the last minute giving Dubs a draw. Now Liam things don't always pan out the way you talk, some day these fresh men coming off the bench won't work and let's face it Dublin really needs a fit B Brogan He is really your top score getter and I'd credit Him and S Cluxon with getting Dublin over the line last year
As regards Donegal and their squad I think this might be a stronger squad than 2012 We have the six backs two Mc gees, McGlynn,Lacy ,Leo,Antony plus P McGrath coming back from injury We also have UTILITY players (blanket men/defenders or call them what you like )MarkMcHugh,young boy Ryan David welsh and Declan Welsh,another good defender So we can pick from 11defenders without Murphy or CMcFadden dropping back to Defend. Midfield we have Big Neil(just play like you did against Cork in 2012 all season), Rory MartinMcElhinney and C Toye can also play midfield. Attack(the question is will we) M MURPHY CMCFADDEN PmcBrearty D Molly newcomers like ORDAN McNellis (also can play midfield)HMcFadden And Young DO COnnor son of the famous Roscommon footballer Jinky. Now staying injury free is a big ask, I hope we do and same applies to all the other teams With a bit of luck we might stare down this Dublin team yet and if we don't win we won't be good enough Would love to see DONEGAL holding Dublin to EIGHT points again ::: that would be a job well done Don't take this too serious Dublin people but we could come after ye

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 19/02/2014 12:45:42    1548481

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 2130

I don't agree Thomas. Trying to beat Dublin by being better at their game than they are is suicide. Nobody else has the forwards.

No, for me, the way to beat Dublin is to make them play the game on your terms, like Donegal tried to do in 2011.
Flood the midfield on Cluxton's kickouts & swarm for 70 minutes. The temprament of some Dublin players is, shall we say, suspect & once the head goes all things are possible. It might not be pretty & the sky might fall in on top of you but for Donegal in particular, with their backs, it would be the way to go.

Totally disagree.

One of the hallmarks of this Dublin team for the last few years is their incredible mental toughness and winning temprament. In three years Dublin have lost one Championship match and have showed incredible mental strength to grind out some improbable wins. Gimme one example of Dublin losing a Championship match without going back too far back because of "heads going". How far back you going to go for it? We lost to Mayo in 2012 because they were much the better team on the day (much like yourselves last year) but we didn't throw in the towell at least.

Your assertion may have been true 4/5 years ago but is defo outdated. It'd be like me coming on here and saying Donegal won't win because their players will be out on the lash too much. It is an outdated idea tha may have been true once but certainly isn't anymore.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13833 - 19/02/2014 12:46:30    1548484

fainleog
County: Limerick
Posts: 66

1548414
That is the reason why so few people want to see Donegal winning Muckrosshead. In any event their is little prospect of they winning Sam this year, based on their performances last year.

Take it from me fainleog, we couldn't give a rat's ass what anyone else thinks if we win.
As for basing 2014 on 2013, you haven't been keeping up!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 19/02/2014 12:46:40    1548486

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 2132


No, for me, the way to beat Dublin is to make them play the game on your terms, like Donegal tried to do in 2011.
Flood the midfield on Cluxton's kickouts & swarm for 70 minutes. The temprament of some Dublin players is, shall we say, suspect & once the head goes all things are possible. It might not be pretty & the sky might fall in on top of you but for Donegal in particular, with their backs, it would be the way to go.

ha how did you come up with that assumption?? Explain please!!

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 19/02/2014 12:49:36    1548490

Liamwalkinstown
County: Dublin
Posts: 5230

1548423
Muckross, in theory that sounds plausible, but there is a gaping hole there. Say you do get a McGee or a Lacey etc to man mark or swarm Dublisn better forwards and say it works for 60 mins. Ye dont have the backs on the bench to bring on when that defender tires. If a Donegal back has been terrierlike all thru the game holding Bernard scoreless or Connolly scoreless, by the 60 min mark he will be as tired as the forward he is marking, but then Dublin spring a Dean Rock, a Kevin McManaman, a Paul Hudson, an Eogan O'Gara and he is fresh being taken on by a back who has 60 mins of running after Bernard Brogan in his legs. Unless ye spring a fresh man to counter act that who is of the same quality as the man he will replace, it just wont work.
To beat Dublin a team will neataly have to copy our policy of keeping potential starters on the bench to make winning impacts. Donegal would nearly want to keep 2 potential starters on the bench to come on after 50 mins to deal with whatever Dublin throw at them for the last 15/20 off the bench
Danger there is do you want sub standard defenders trying to keep the Brogans, Paul Mannion, Paul Flynn, Ciaran Kilkenny and Diarmuid Connolly quiet until this happens?

I know how arrogant this sounds but i shouldnt have to watch my words just cos they are the team i love, but the depth of the Dublin subs is pretty ridiculous!

What you say is not in the slightest bit arrogant, but it has holes in it as well.

If Donegal, and I concede that it is a big if, park the bus successfully, & do well on the counter attack then the adrenalin will be flowing & tiredness will be less of a factor. Neither are we that bare on the bench!! Wheras Dublin have options in attack, Donegal have them in defence. I would love to see us getting together at some stage in 2014.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 19/02/2014 12:56:44    1548491

Mayo might have something to say about it,but everyone does seem to be looking at the unstoppable force in Dublin meeting the immoveable object of Donegal. Would be a great battle.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 19/02/2014 13:02:18    1548498

Dublin are a way better side than '11 and yes Tyrone beat us in the league last year but come on beating us in an empty Croker with half a team in the middle of winter is hardly the same as beating us in the middle of summer fully strength championship side. If we played Tyrone last summer it would have been a cricket score win for us.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 19/02/2014 13:08:22    1548507

All in all boys we want to slow down a bit ,we're talking about August /September but don't forget we have a tough one in CELTIC park( battle of the Bogside) and if that was over we should know how we are shaping up The dream games for me this year are ::: meet Monaghan in the Ulster Final ( if they get there ) quarter final :::anybody(would rather skip Tyrone for a year,nothing to prove))then the big ONE v Dublin in the semi final (Ulster v Leinster I think is the pairings for this year) But first this Derry outfit has to be beaten ,won't be no easy job but at least it's a game that will help both of us further down the line ::nothing like a good tough line.
Muckross you really are going to defend well against :::Dublin scoreless after 60 minutes play. At least I was thinking of a score like Donegal 1-1 Dublin 0-1 at half time. At sixty minutes play it might be Donegal 1-3 Dublin0-5 and all the Dublin scores coming from 45 metre frees kicked by The Dublin goalkeeper. The final would be 1-5Donegal 0-7 Dublin

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 19/02/2014 13:24:11    1548517

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 4561

1548507
Dublin are a way better side than '11 and yes Tyrone beat us in the league last year but come on beating us in an empty Croker with half a team in the middle of winter is hardly the same as beating us in the middle of summer fully strength championship side. If we played Tyrone last summer it would have been a cricket score win for us.

Clondalkin,

A great post, I fully agree with you that what happened in 2013, 2012, 2011 or 1846 has nothing at all to do with 2014.

Teams were in different stages of development, had injury problems, suspensions, different managers etc etc.

2014 is a clean sheet & the only thing we have to go on is current form.

Donegal are a shoe in!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 19/02/2014 13:27:36    1548521

No, for me, the way to beat Dublin is to make them play the game on your terms, like Donegal tried to do in 2011.


Nooooooo, please, we can't go through that again :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8812 - 19/02/2014 13:44:35    1548534

Since the game in 2010 (which Dublin won incidentally) we have added the following players to our team/match day squad

Cooper, McCaffrey, Kilkenny, Mannion, Hudson, Rock, Andrews
I think we can all agree thats a HUGE improvement ?
Have Donegal done likewise lads?
Far as I can tell ye have lost Rory, lost Cassidy, given McHugh junior his go but not much else?

Thoughts?

Cheers (am glad this discussion is staying above board and seems legit, lets keep it that way)

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8167 - 19/02/2014 13:45:38    1548536