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football and hurling are very very different games though. firstly even just to look onto the pitch it would be far easier to notice the "extra man" in hurling than football, because 90% of the time hurling is 15 on 15 man to man whereas in football there is so much interchanging of position and movement of player all over the field you wouldn't notice just to look as easily. thing is in football it is far easier to keep possession by use of the hand pass so overlapping runs and working back can cover for the man less. with hurling the way the game has developed it is very hard for a team to win with a man less unless there is a gulf in class between the teams. in the modern era the team with one player less will nearly always get caught out as it is played at such a high pace an intensity. then if a team has an extra man he will be played in the middle of the defense and if the correct type of player is used as cork did with conor o'sullivan its very hard to play against. hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 22/01/2014 17:53:31 1535321 Link 0 |
disillusiondfan ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 22/01/2014 17:58:08 1535325 Link 0 |
RebelCork.... JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 22/01/2014 18:45:27 1535346 Link 0 |
Ritchie we were well of the pace against Clare. My point was we can all come on here n say well if this was different or if that was different then sure this or that could happen. Nonsense. We won Munster n got badly beaten in semi. Both are facts but if someone says ah ye wouldn't have won Munster if this or that had happened is nonsense. We played semi after 6 week lay off. To say we would or could have played better if we had a quarter final is entirely as valid in my view as trying to say we could have lost Munster only for sending off. We all have to play cards we are dealt n accept results. I didn't start this Mealy mouthed attempts at demeaning teams or their achievements. disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 22/01/2014 18:45:53 1535347 Link 0 |
No excuse what so ever. It was probably the dirtiest thing that happened in the championship and how you can say the ref was anyway bias after leaving him on the field i don't know. Everyone knows O'Dywer should have stayed on but it was a mistake the same way it was a mistake not to send Rushe off. I'm a big fan of Rush but himself and Dublin were done a huge favour. RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 22/01/2014 21:44:23 1535420 Link 0 |
I might be going against the grain, but I thought all 3 high profile sendings off lst year were correct. Horgan made contact with the back of the head, maybe he was blinded by the sun or was awkward but I think it was correct sending off. Shefflin tapped McLoughlin on the elbow with his hurley - an old Kilkenny trick - deserved yellow.His second yellow was a little more borderline, but he did catch Coughlan around the neck.I know both of these were rescinded but I honestly don't think they should have been. O'Dwyer's sending off was the most clearcut of the three- two blatant frontal body charges, he knew exactly what he was doing both times. But how did the most obvious dirty stroke all year get away with only a yellow and Liam Rushe stay on the pitch? Eddie Keher has been bladdering on about red and yellow cards "destroying hurling" - but we had the best hurling championship in living memory last year and was far removed from the pulling and dragging rugbyleague-with-sticks that the game ha developed in to. KeyserSoze (Cork) - Posts: 363 - 23/01/2014 10:30:51 1535489 Link 0 |
i do struggle to see you ryan o dwyer should have stayed on rebel cork.if He had picked up a booking soft or not he still had it and drew blood on the reckless challenge in the second half. Iv played and been involved in coaching for many years and everyone knows who ever put on a jersey knows if your on a yellow you must watch your self hell we have heard it enough but the commentary on big matches about players who pick up and early yellow. ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 23/01/2014 10:36:55 1535491 Link 0 |
Ritchie Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 23/01/2014 11:29:02 1535530 Link 0 |
Fair enough Ritchie. Good points on Ryan O'Dwyer and Liam Rushe but go one further on Shane O'Neill. There is absolutely no question that he deserved to be given a straight red card against Kilkenny. He might have been going for the ball but came nowhere near it and got all man with a dangerous strike. The same player against Clare in the first match deserved a straight red for a dangerous strike on Darach Honan's head (who I would also have booked as he was not without blame either) and to my mind Patrick Horgan's red card was deserved as well and should have been a red...the rule book does not account for accidents, being blinded by the sun etc (all of which they were and Horgan is a clean player and it can be frustrating that an inoccous tap carries a harder punishment than what say, Liam Rushe or Shane O Neill but the refs were told to clamp down, they did, but in typical GAA fashion players don't accept the rules, the question everything and as a result, after the Limerick game, players were getting away with all sorts..) bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 23/01/2014 11:50:07 1535548 Link 0 |
Oldtour man i suppose the reasoning why the sheflin didnt really receive all that much attention is basically because that was it in the championship for Kilkenny. I firmly believe that had sheflin not been sent off that cork would have won anyway and probably with a point or two more Cork were really on their game that day and this is illustrated by where sheflin was at the time of his sending off.And as iv stated in the previous post the player brought it on himself t was his decision and neglect that cost him his place on the field that day ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 23/01/2014 12:56:26 1535593 Link 0 |
oldtourman ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 23/01/2014 13:13:58 1535615 Link 0 |
Yeah, must agree with the bulk of posts on here. The sendings off were harsh (as they almost always are) but that doesn't mean they weren't deserved. If you were at a club game (without the ability to analyse in detail), you'd expect that players who committed those offences would stand a very good chance of being sent off, and if they stayed on the field you'd say they were lucky. Decisions aren't always consistent, that's part of the game. But none of those sendings off were inexplicable and all three players would have known they were on thin ice as soon as they committed the offence. Shane O Neill also deserved to go against KK. There was a bit of gamesmanship (cuteness) from KK at midfield which nearly resulted in a goal, but it didn't excuse what O'Neill did. You cannot lash out like that and expect to stay on the field. Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 799 - 23/01/2014 13:18:42 1535617 Link 0 |
I agree that cork would have beaten kk if shefflin wasn't sent off. I agree that Shane o neill should have seen a straight red for his tackle on Honan. I was slow to say that I think ref made right decision on Horgan be ause no one else was sayin so and I thought I must have been wrong. I think he is a clean player but was being totally outplayed and a little frustration set in. He simply went for a ball he shouldn't have gone for in my view. I agree with the comment about the sec general. I think if limerick had lost a player in similar citcumstances to Horgan ( or any team outside top three) it is unlikely in my view the decision would have been revoked. As for rushe is it possible that ref wasn't sure he got it right with o Dwyer and then made an allowance( which analysts always urge them to do). Tough job being a ref I think either rushe or Dwyer woulda gone n cork woulda win either way. Dublin will be better for the e pertinence and are one of my 4 picks. disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 23/01/2014 13:40:58 1535626 Link 0 |
Ritchie bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 23/01/2014 14:11:02 1535644 Link 0 |
Fair point though I spose he will say he woulda caught it n pointed it if he hadnot got the belt. Something similar happened to me long time ago u always need ready made excise disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 23/01/2014 14:11:46 1535645 Link 0 |
before i say this i just want to point out that limerick deserved to win munster. hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 23/01/2014 15:28:26 1535723 Link 0 |
Went for a ball he shouldn't have gone for because he wasn't gonna get it n was in danger of committing a foul which he did. 4 or 5 poster (not only old tourman) think it was a red. I can confirm at least one of us has played the game and disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 23/01/2014 16:15:08 1535755 Link 0 |
Did this also deserve a red because as far as i know he didn't get one? Then again i suppose he was only smashing his hurley off his faceguard, not even in the same league as Horgan's scandalous tap on the back of the helmet. RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 23/01/2014 16:42:09 1535772 Link 0 |
paudie o'brien went for it and he didnt get it either because it hit him on the head! does that mean everyone should run away from the ball because there is a chance they might not get it. every time a player goes for a ball there is a danger of committing a foul, but no player at any level goes out and says "well i might concede a foul if i go for this ball so i'll just let my opponent have this 1" because if someone did say that it would be a long time before they play again. as i said by the strict letter of the law it was a red card, but if the rules are always applied like that we would have 4 or 5 red cards per game. hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 23/01/2014 16:56:00 1535784 Link 0 |
Team to play UCC in challenge cup. RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 23/01/2014 17:04:46 1535794 Link 0 |