But RebelCork,you did. You said "Cork hurling gets robbed by rugby." and then specifically namechecked those two. And unless you want to go back to the days of The Ban ,like Frank's spokesman Awbeg Rover wants to, it's a fact of life and shouldn't be proferred as an excuse. Admittedly, the Dubs on this board seem to think we have nothing but GAA "down the country" but others on this board can see that there are competing sports everywhere. Shane Long might have turned into a Tipp hurler, Kevin Doyle might have become a Wexford footballer, Conor Murray might have turned out for Limerick etc. etc. But it's all conjecture and it's not something that only Cork have to deal with.

KeyserSoze (Cork) - Posts: 363 - 18/01/2014 15:45:17    1533380

@KeyserSoze: Tomás O'Leary and Darren Sweetnam were primarily rugby players first who happened to play hurling also, not vice versa as some people would like to imagine, so they were not "robbed" as you try make out.

Can't comment on Sweetnam but Tomas O'Leary was most definitely a hurler first!! He only started playing rugby when he went to secondary school (at which point he already had an u12 hurling county medal in his pocket), and only really started taking it seriously after his Junior cert, all of his friends are hurlers (they made up the backbone of the Erins Own county winning teams in '06 and '07) and i'd be pretty certain that if rugby hadnt gone professional a few years beforehand he'd still be playing hurling now, quite possibly with Cork, so please stop talking through your bottom!!!

And if you don't believe me, have a read of this
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/tomas-oleary-hurling-has-always-been-my-passion

Whoknows79 (Meath) - Posts: 8 - 18/01/2014 15:58:16    1533385

Whoknows79, That's a nice headline in that article, and every rugby player from Brian O'Driscoll to John Muldoon to John Hayes to Tommy Bowe has given press releases and soundbites to journalists on their GAA background and how much they love it. O'Leary did indeed play hurling underage before he ever played rugby in secondary school, but in his formative years from 12 -18 he would have played far,far more rugby (between for CBC, Munster schools and Ireland schools) than he did hurling. You may not realise how seriosuly schools rugby is taken, it's taken even more seriously than schools GAA (schools players don't play with rugby clubs, for instance, the level of commitment prevents it). As for saying that "all his friends are hurlers", well they might be or you might be talking through your bottom. I don't know what it's like in Meath, but around Cork city , a youngfella's freinds are more likeley to be his schoolmates than his GAA clubmates. And I never said he wouldn't have opted for rugby if it wasn't professional, so please get that straight.

KeyserSoze (Cork) - Posts: 363 - 18/01/2014 16:26:36    1533397

Shur didn't O'Leary captain Cork's last All-Ireland winning minor hurling team??? His Da is the great Seanie O'Leary for God's sake!!!

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 18/01/2014 17:42:59    1533427

jesus lads it hardly matters what sport they played first, they are playing rugby now so get over it and work with the future and what ye can control

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 18/01/2014 18:16:21    1533439

Hang on a second, i was trying to say Cork do have to deal with it, not that they're the only one's that have to deal with it. Don't even bother turning this in to a county board opinions thread i have nothing against rugby (it's my third sport) i was just stating that Cork lose talent(not players) to rugby. I gave the two most obvious examples i could think of and did not say they were robed from Cork or any one else for that matter. The examples you gave were just a couple of underage stars that probably wouldn't have even played for there county, not even in the same league as O'Leary and Sweetnam.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 18/01/2014 18:42:54    1533447

Getting back to Cork Hurlers 2014...the league game between Cork & limerick in Pairc ui Rinn on feb 15 is almost a winner take all tie with no final in 1B this year.

hurler32 (Limerick) - Posts: 871 - 18/01/2014 20:51:30    1533525

Yes it is hurler32.

The key game is the first round game and unfortunately for Limerick they will be down a few players while Cork will have added a few. Cork also have the advantage of the injustice done to them in the Munster Final last year. Whoever, wins is 95% certain for promotion as I cannot see any of the other teams beating Limerick or Cork. Wexford would be best placed to do it I guess, but I cant see it happening.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2697 - 22/01/2014 08:47:44    1534979

Rebel
Cian Lynch is now being spoken of as a possible recruit to professional soccer. There is no doubt that he is just as exciting a prospect as Sweetman or O'Leary ever were and has the Carey pedigree in his background to boot. However if he goes we just have to wish him well and get on with it. Your comment that Conor Murray was more or less no loss bears no substance in reality as this was not just a fine hurler but the manner in which he eased himself onto the international rugby scene, something O'Leary and Sweetman have done less successfully, displays he had the physical, temperamental and skillful attributes to succeed as well in hurling if he had gone that route. However he chose rugby and again we have just to get on with it.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 22/01/2014 10:04:07    1535001

Lrh
You are on again about the famous 'injustice' Cork suffered against Limerick in the Munster Final. Let us put this to bed once and for all. Cork played with a strong wind and sun into the city goal that day and were still only level at H/T when Pat Horgan was put off. I am fifty years attending games in the Gaelic Grounds and generally if you are not up five or six lead playing with the wind into city goal the game is lost as it would have been that day whether Horgan stayed on or not. I might observe that you never comment that one of Henry Sheefflin's cards got in the quarter final was subsequently rescinded so he was wrongly off for three quarters of a game which Cork only won by a few points and not nine as our crowd did. However where is your highly developed sense of injustice in the latter case?

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 22/01/2014 10:40:25    1535016

Oltourman I think we gonna have to get used to fact that for some reason our neighbours want to devalue our Munster success. Only clare ppl plus one guy from tipp have said that Cork would have won were it not for sending off. I really don't recall any Cork poster saying it. In fact quite the opposite. It is also interesting that no journalist or tv analyst suggested that Limerick were lucky. That sending off in fact probably cost us. It would have been far better to have won the final by a point or two and to have been pushed all the way. Indeed losing that day could well have proved even more beneficial but like those who want to demean us we will never know now.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 22/01/2014 12:06:03    1535055

the point IS we will never know. i dont think anyone has said cork would have have won (i didnt anyway) what i said was that we will never know who would have won. limerick clearly were lucky that horgan was sent off as it made the task easier when the opposition lost their best player, its not that limerick were lucky to win limerick deserved to win going by their performance over the game, which was as i said obviously made easier by the fact that they were playing against 14 men which i honestly think makes it less of a significant achievement. it was an injustice in the sense that cork were wrongfully denied the opportunity to play man for man 15 on 15 for half the game. as we saw in three games last year - red cards had massive implication on the eventual result. in terms of the limerick cork game i think it was perfectly poised as half time and the red card swung the game in limericks favour. anyone who says limerick were always going to win is talking nonsense, any thing can happen at any stage when the game is so evenly matched.
in conclusion: we will never know who would have won but what we do know is the red card was the most significant factor in the result of the game. no one is trying to devalue or demean limericks success. i dont think i can possibly make this point any clearer

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 22/01/2014 15:34:02    1535211

Oldtourman
County: Limerick
Posts: 185

Hang on a second i never said he wasn't a loss. You're saying he'd be a good player based on an underage (with his club) and his rugby career where as i'm giving two examples of county hurlers. How far they've got in rugby is a complete different matter, it's very obvious Sweetnam and O'Learey were better hurlers .I'm well aware Limerick suffers the worst in terms of players been taken i was just saying Cork have it a lot worse then Dublin do.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 22/01/2014 15:59:59    1535228

As I said oldtourman they will persist in trying to demean out victory. If we had lost to cork we would havevhad an extra game before semis which in my view was a v significant factor in us turning up cold aug 18. We could have won all ireland if we lost Munster but we will never know now blah blah blah

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 22/01/2014 16:34:05    1535259

H E
As a former wexford player said who could say Pat Horgan's loss for half the game playing against the wind was worth nine points. You are the lad who is talking nonsense I think. Incidentally you never picked up on my reference to the real influence Shefflin's wrongful sending off might have on the Kilkenny Cork where the margin was closer and he was off for a much longer.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 22/01/2014 16:46:25    1535271

horgan was probably not worth 9 points in the second half. but thats not a fair comment to make its the fact the it was 15 against 14 was the issue. the way the game panned out it suited john allens substitution method perfectly, fresh legs came on against a tiring team and limerick powered on to victory which i did said above was deserved. i also said no one is trying to demean anything. as i said i dont think i can make it any clearer for ye, its pretty basic stuff to understand.
i said that 3 red cards this year were very important in the outcome of the games. i'm sorry for not mentioning who the 3 were i just thought that everyone was aware that i was talking about horgan, shefflin and o'dwyer. other than saying that they were the most important factors in the outcome of those games im not sure what else you want me to say

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 22/01/2014 17:08:54    1535286

Interesting, Cork overachieved in many ways. They beat a Kilkenny team in need of new faces/regeneration/lack of pace and got some fierce handy decisions against Dublin that wouldn't have been given in any other game.

That's not saying they weren't good, they were. But it was more of a surprising good. Add the football lads coming back and they wont be too far away with one or two more new faces.

Cork will be there or thereabouts come August.

They probably wont need handy decisions this year, the experience of last year will stand to them. Last year the overachieved, an All Ireland Final probs wouldn't have been expected until this year in reality. If they are there again this year you'd fancy them to win.

Dubs overachieved and missed the boat last year, the big fear is can Kilkenny rebuild in such a short period of time? And will that old enigma Galway choose to be Jekyll or Hyde this year?

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 22/01/2014 17:22:24    1535300

Was Liam Rushe trying to take the hand off Horgan and then getting a yellow 'handy'?

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 22/01/2014 17:25:51    1535304

Well as we are in the area of speculation I have to say that teams who are reduced to 14 men usually get fairly soft treatment from referees and in this context some of the frees which Jamie Coughlan got off Tom Condon early in the second half might never have given, if Cork had a full compliment, as they seemed very soft indeed. Just a little footnote that might take of the the wind out of the sails of those who might make a big deal of the loss of players through dismissals of this nature. Meath and Cork played each other with two fairly evenly matched teams in 1988 and 1990. In each case a player was put off in the early minutes of the game. IN EACH CASE THE TEAM REDUCED TO 14 MEN WON.In a newspaper article after the 1996 final Con Houlihan listed no less than 11 different games where the same thing happened.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 22/01/2014 17:26:53    1535306

H.E.
You surely hit the nail when you said 'fresh legs' came on. The fact is Cork have had a fairly moderate substitute bench all year unlike your own county which would now appear to have a bottomless pit of good subs.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4517 - 22/01/2014 17:30:41    1535309