The one really top forward on the current Mayo team is O'Connor however it was second AI final in a row that he failed to score from play and i think for Mayo to win AI final he will have to deliver from play.


Here is a list of the Mayo starting 6 forwards in each of the seven lost finals and without stating the obvious those forward lines simply haven't been good enough on the big day.

1989
G Maher, WJ Padden (0-1), N Durcan;
M Fitzmaurice (0-7, six frees and a '50'), J Burke, K McStay (0-2).

1996 (replay)
J Horan (0-5), C McManamon, M Sheridan (0-5, four frees); R Dempsey, J Casey (0-1), A Finnerty.

1997
M Sheridan (0-3, two frees), C McManamon (0-1), J Casey; C McDonald (1-1, goal from penalty and a free), L McHale, D Nestor


2004
T Mortimer, C McDonald (0-3, 2 frees), B Maloney (0-1); C Mortimer (0-1), J Gill, A Dillon (1-2, 1 free)


2006
BJ Padden (0-1) , A Dillon, G Brady; C McDonald (0-1, free), C Mortimer (0-3, frees), K O'Neill (2-0).


2012
Kevin McLoughlin (0-2), Jason Doherty, Alan Dillon; Enda Varley (0-2, frees), Cillian O'Connor (0-5, frees), Michael Conroy (0-1).

2013
Kevin McLoughlin, Keith Higgins (0-1), Alan Dillon; Cillian O'Connor (0-8, frees), Alan Freeman, Andy Moran (1-2).

Mr_Pundit (UK) - Posts: 677 - 29/11/2013 20:09:12    1519205

Marquee this , marquee that. The real question is: Did you ever wake up in a marquee??

beal (Mayo) - Posts: 1388 - 29/11/2013 20:49:03    1519219

Kerry will be the biggest threat to Dublin in 14,mayo are finished

but i must applaud horan for keeping feeney on the bench

D5dub (Dublin) - Posts: 283 - 29/11/2013 21:21:53    1519230

Master doesn't matter how easy the scores are, it is no coincidence that the likes of Brogan, McFadden and Murphy are often the finishers of the moves.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8366 - 29/11/2013 21:28:06    1519234

"99% of intercounty forwards would have put away those chances"

McFadden's maybe. But you could hardly call Murphy's goal a routine finish.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9746 - 30/11/2013 09:14:48    1519254

Keeping the hunger there and adding at least one forward could give them a shot, it will be difficult to do though. I'm not sure about what forwards are hanging around to come in but if it was me I'd try get Conroy in the team if he can keep fit. He has genuine pace and direct running which Mayos other forwards don't (Moran did once upon a time but injuries see to have effected that). If Moran could come back to the form of 2 years ago it would be a huge boost as well. Keeping the hunger in the camp could be the big issue though. From 1-9 I still reckon they probably have the best footballers in the country.

CaisleanCnucha (Dublin) - Posts: 1379 - 30/11/2013 10:16:22    1519259

to be honest they dont have the hurlers. they have an outside chance with the football but slight as there not 'natural'

Fishermantom (Limerick) - Posts: 569 - 30/11/2013 10:58:02    1519263

Mayo will be contenders for the next few years.....I think the main reason Mayo lost was Cluxton..he was too clever. As far as the Feeney thing goes I think Horan had his reasons to bench him...Horan is not at fault at all.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1226 - 30/11/2013 12:03:06    1519272

Always contenders ,but can they win it? Question wont be answered until they actually win it. Potential champions in 2014? We wont know until we see the League performances. The key will be ,can the stellar players improve and actually get better?The hod carriers will also need to improve as well. Can the All Stars and those nominated actually get better? Only time will tell. Despite opinions to the contrary on this thread[misguided to say the least],All Ireland winners have forwards who get the necessary scores and other out field players who actually "step up". In this area Mayo have failed the test 8 times since 1951,thats a fact. Mayo have the biggest following in Ireland supplemented by the diaspora who travel home at every opportunity.Among this vast throng are a number who just dont know their football.
People who suggest that Tyrone "had no forwards",need reminding of the following match winners,Dooher,the Mc Guigan brothers,Peter Canavan,and Eoin Mulligan I talked to people before the All Ireland last September who suggested that Dublin would buckle in the physical stakes. Of course they were ignoring the fact that once Heffo[R.I.P.]]took charge of Dublin [1973] no team has "done"Dublin in the physical stakes.
If Mayo do get to a final lets hope that James the manager makes no mistakes on the day.He made one crucial one in 2012,and two daft ones in 2013.

Heres hoping that Mayo do it,and that James and that panel havent already "run their race".

Brinsley Swartz (Mayo) - Posts: 2225 - 30/11/2013 12:07:54    1519275

Fishermantom
County: Limerick
Posts: 388

1519263
to be honest they dont have the hurlers. they have an outside chance with the football but slight as there not 'natural'

Ha ha nice one!

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8366 - 30/11/2013 12:22:29    1519277

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here, Master. Or not ;)

IMO, Alan Dillon was a fine player for Mayo, but he has been dogged by injuries for the past season. Anyone could see that he wasn't entirely match-fit in the latter stages of last season. Ditto Andy Moran. I am not having a go at these players, as they are coming back from long-term injuries, but it does show up a worrying lack of depth in our panel that we had to start three forwards last September who were either carrying injuries or were still short of fitness.

Now, as regards Feeney: the man has been impressive for Castlebar Mitchels this year and almost every time he comes on. Maybe he's more effective from the bench, that's Horan's call and he knows best. But I and a lot of other people are surprised that he doesn't start more games. It's my opinion that even allowing for the likes of McLaughlin, Higgins, SOS and the others you mentioned, our full-forward line suffered from a dearth of ball in the second half. Indeed, I think that they only scored a goal from play, though I am open to correction on that. Feeney's distribution is good, he usually chips in with a score or two, and it's my belief that he would have won more ball than Dillon on the day. Just my two cents.

As for the 'marquee' issue, come on now. Almost every time Mayo have lost a senior final, we have come up against one or more forwards in inspired form. Dave Barry scored five points from play against us in 1989. Trevor Giles was the difference in 1996, as he hardly missed from placed balls. In 1997, Maurice FitzGerald damn near beat us on his own. We were destroyed twice by Gooch and Declan O'Sullivan in 2004 and 2006.

Michael Murphy scored a fantastic goal against us in 2012 and landed some monster frees. Bernard Brogan was well-marshalled by Ger Cafferkey in this year's decider, but he still scored 2-2 off feck-all supply.

In one of the posts above, we can see that Mayo forwards have rarely managed more than two points from play in a final, with James Horan in 1996 being an honourable exception.

But you're insisting that top-class forwards don't make a difference? Mayo lost all of those finals, barring the most recent defeats to Kerry, by margins of one to four points. Having a Padraig Joyce or Peter Canavan would have ended our drought a long time ago.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 30/11/2013 12:35:40    1519283

Mr_Pundit
County: UK
Posts: 267

1519205
The one really top forward on the current Mayo team is O'Connor however it was second AI final in a row that he failed to score from play and i think for Mayo to win AI final he will have to deliver from play.


Here is a list of the Mayo starting 6 forwards in each of the seven lost finals and without stating the obvious those forward lines simply haven't been good enough on the big day.

1989
G Maher, WJ Padden (0-1), N Durcan;
M Fitzmaurice (0-7, six frees and a '50'), J Burke, K McStay (0-2).

1996 (replay)
J Horan (0-5), C McManamon, M Sheridan (0-5, four frees); R Dempsey, J Casey (0-1), A Finnerty.

1997
M Sheridan (0-3, two frees), C McManamon (0-1), J Casey; C McDonald (1-1, goal from penalty and a free), L McHale, D Nestor


2004
T Mortimer, C McDonald (0-3, 2 frees), B Maloney (0-1); C Mortimer (0-1), J Gill, A Dillon (1-2, 1 free

2006
BJ Padden (0-1) , A Dillon, G Brady; C McDonald (0-1, free), C Mortimer (0-3, frees), K O'Neill (2-0).


2012
Kevin McLoughlin (0-2), Jason Doherty, Alan Dillon; Enda Varley (0-2, frees), Cillian O'Connor (0-5, frees), Michael Conroy (0-1).

2013
Kevin McLoughlin, Keith Higgins (0-1), Alan Dillon; Cillian O'Connor (0-8, frees), Alan Freeman, Andy Moran (1-2).

Cheers for that Mr Pundit, very informative. Though I think Anthony Finnerty's goal in the 1989 final is missing.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 30/11/2013 12:39:20    1519285

Having a Padraig Joyce or Peter Canavan would have ended our drought a long time ago.

Somewhere a nail has been hit firmly on the head.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9746 - 30/11/2013 15:28:50    1519300

Yes beal, on a regular basis, how come your innuendos can get through and mine can't? :(

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8744 - 30/11/2013 16:17:40    1519308

30/11/2013 12:39:20
Gleebo
County: Mayo
Posts: 92



Cheers for that Mr Pundit, very informative. Though I think Anthony Finnerty's goal in the 1989 final is missing.


Finnerty wasn't a starting forward came off the bench in the 1989 final to score that goal.

Mr_Pundit (UK) - Posts: 677 - 30/11/2013 16:49:53    1519315

I can't see it. This was their chance in 2013, and the missed it.

To sustain that kind of training regime for another year, and show the same grit and determination is difficult.
Very talented bunch of players, but they are clearly lacking in certain area's still.

No

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3026 - 30/11/2013 17:23:15    1519324

Mayo werent good enough this year. Didnt score enough from play.

Mayos problem is other teams are rebuilding and this team were amazing reaching two finals in succession but theres a lot of mental baggage there losing. They need to unearth forwards. TheMaster tried say Donegal/Dublin were fortunate...the scores were routine. Yeah they were.....but their opposition scored them, because they had good forwards. Kerry have been guilty of fortune too......they have good forwards.

Dublin played poorly.....their quality up top got them over the line.

Think Mayo need to find forwards.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 30/11/2013 19:41:02    1519351

Brogans first goal was anything but routine

Superb ball from Paul Flynn

Sublime flick by Bernard that caught Mayo cold

Many forwards would have simply caught that ball

Bernard showed superb timing while also showing a true footballing mind

Sun in his eyes...

Flick!

A very cunning goal from a very talented player against one of the best defenders in the country

He left two men flapping...

Routine?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 30/11/2013 20:06:08    1519359

Jimbodub agree that brogans first goal was not routine he punished a defensive error very well it was a great finish. However Paul Flynns "super ball in"?? Come on now be honest it was a Hail Mary effort in the general direction of the goal and we both know that. Credit to brogan for the finish though

Mayostar (Mayo) - Posts: 40 - 01/12/2013 11:53:45    1519431

Do mayo have a sports psychologist. If not then they really need one. Each final there is a huge amount of bravado from players and management e.g. Smiles n winks at camera etc. then they proceed to choke n bottle it. I would love to see mayo win one but unless they become ruthless n mentally aggressive. No more bravado focused ruthless approach or mayo will never see Sam. Nice guys come second.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 01/12/2013 12:23:33    1519444