Gleebo
Agree with you about Richie Feeney though, can never understand why he doesn't start more games for Mayo than he does, particularly given his versatility.

Therein lies your answer for me. What is his position? There are more specialised players in the mayo squad than him. Wingback? Not over keegan and boyle, and just doesnt have the athleticism and/or physicality for centre-back. Linkman at wingforward? McLoughlin is a superior option. Creative forward, dillon is a superior option. So where then?
The only job I could potentially see for him is if they went with 2 inside, start him at corner-forward and let him out the field. But then you have even less all-out forward on the pitch. It isnt straightforward to fit him in and keep the team balanced. However, he is useful to introduce when the gamegoes a certain way, and that is what was done with him last year. Anyway, maybe we should leave him out of this one, he has probably has enough written about him on these boards, all of which was inaccurate to boot.

As regards this thing about 'marquee forwards', is there a whole lot of substance to it? Not for me there isnt. McFadden's input in the final was down to a mistake from a mayo player, you didnt need to be a marquee forward to put that away. Brogan this year got 2 goals, 1 was a tap in and the other had a touch of fortune about it where it could have dropped over just as easily as under the bar. Fair play to them, they put them away, but my point is, had it anything to do with 'marquee' status? Not for me. Of course it helps to have a very good forward or two, but again, there is more than 1 way. What people really mean, I believe, is that you need an outlet, a ballwinner to take pressure off. Well we have in freeman, and hopefully will again in moran and if they pop it over or win a foul trying we have the tools to make use of that. So collectively mayo can fulfill the function of a marquee forward, they just dont have the big name.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 28/11/2013 17:10:03    1518868

What mayo need next year is their supporters to get behind them by putting their already mentally fragile players under severe pressure by penning 'God Bless us and Save Us' "open letters" and lots of songs for the team!

Only then can they win SAM!.....oh wait!!!

Regards,

Snufalufagus....Laochra Gael

Snufalufagus (Dublin) - Posts: 8100 - 28/11/2013 17:50:02    1518902

Short answer is no.

Andy Morans point in the first half was their last point in open play in this years final which really tells its own tale. Dublin produced probably their worst display of the year in the final played the final 10 mins with 13 fit players and only needed one of their marquee forward to fire.

The best hope for Mayo in the years ahead is looking after their minor forwards from this year and try to develop them into senior scoring forwards but by the time they become established senior players James Horan will have moved on.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3602 - 28/11/2013 18:02:00    1518909

They have Connacht.
Thats a quarter final spot.

I think as much a people would love to see Mayo winning. Any team will expliot their short comings. In 2014. There or there abouts yet again

Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 789 - 28/11/2013 20:34:49    1518960

We don't have a Murphy or a McFadden Master, when nobody is playing that well like this year in the final you need a player who can get a big score. You are analysing Brogans scores and play in general that doesn't matter, he stepped up. We unfortunately haven't had that as of yet.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8366 - 28/11/2013 20:59:28    1518969

Why are people constantly obsessing over whether or not Mayo will win Sam in, insert year here ....?

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 29/11/2013 09:25:02    1518999

Fair point brend, I was wondering the same thing myself. It's not mayo lads that start the threads either, which might have been a bit more understandable. It is a strange trend.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 29/11/2013 09:36:15    1519007

Along with Kerry, Cork, Donegal, Dublin and Tyrone, Mayo are the only side that can win the 2014 All Ireland. Perhaps a new challenger will surface in the league and challenge but im doubtful. The team to watch in 2014 under new management will be Cork imo!

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 29/11/2013 11:42:47    1519057

Of course they can. They are almost certain to win Connaught and be back in a quarter final next August. However unless they find a couple of scoring forwards they will come up short again. Hard to see the winner not coming from Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and maybe Donegal. Cork have lost too many senior players to be serious contenders next year IMO.

fingalman (Dublin) - Posts: 233 - 29/11/2013 12:17:17    1519067

fingalman
County: Dublin
Posts: 73

1519067 Of course they can. They are almost certain to win Connaught and be back in a quarter final next August. However unless they find a couple of scoring forwards they will come up short again. Hard to see the winner not coming from Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and maybe Donegal. Cork have lost too many senior players to be serious contenders next year IMO.

I agree howvern I would class Kildare in an outside contender..

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 29/11/2013 13:36:46    1519099

I honestly can't see Dublin being stopped next year, I think will be even better than this year so no I can't see Mayo winning Sam next year.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 29/11/2013 14:52:58    1519124

flack
County: Dublin
Posts: 139

1518862
Yes, bad as it losing an all Ireland by a point, it's way more encouraging than the hammerings they were prone to getting

I always feel that people over-do the 'Mayo get hammered in finals' line. The only senior finals they've been walloped in were against Kerry in 2004 and 2006; all the other finals were lost by margins of one to four points. Not exactly an enviable record, I grant you, but we certainly don't get hammered in most of the finals we play in.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 29/11/2013 15:09:48    1519129

SO the general feeling seems to be, we could but we wont....well that's cleared it all up :) - waste of a thread. Too early anyway. Do people think we should go all out to win the league? I think we should.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11549 - 29/11/2013 15:17:37    1519130

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 9610

1518868
Gleebo
Agree with you about Richie Feeney though, can never understand why he doesn't start more games for Mayo than he does, particularly given his versatility.

Therein lies your answer for me. What is his position? There are more specialised players in the mayo squad than him. Wingback? Not over keegan and boyle, and just doesnt have the athleticism and/or physicality for centre-back. Linkman at wingforward? McLoughlin is a superior option. Creative forward, dillon is a superior option. So where then?
The only job I could potentially see for him is if they went with 2 inside, start him at corner-forward and let him out the field. But then you have even less all-out forward on the pitch. It isnt straightforward to fit him in and keep the team balanced. However, he is useful to introduce when the gamegoes a certain way, and that is what was done with him last year. Anyway, maybe we should leave him out of this one, he has probably has enough written about him on these boards, all of which was inaccurate to boot.

As regards this thing about 'marquee forwards', is there a whole lot of substance to it? Not for me there isnt. McFadden's input in the final was down to a mistake from a mayo player, you didnt need to be a marquee forward to put that away. Brogan this year got 2 goals, 1 was a tap in and the other had a touch of fortune about it where it could have dropped over just as easily as under the bar. Fair play to them, they put them away, but my point is, had it anything to do with 'marquee' status? Not for me. Of course it helps to have a very good forward or two, but again, there is more than 1 way. What people really mean, I believe, is that you need an outlet, a ballwinner to take pressure off. Well we have in freeman, and hopefully will again in moran and if they pop it over or win a foul trying we have the tools to make use of that. So collectively mayo can fulfill the function of a marquee forward, they just dont have the big name.

While I agree that he wouldn't get past any of our half-back line (serious pace there), I respectfully disagree on the half-forward positions. Alan Dillon has been a fantastic servant to Mayo, but he has been suffering from injuries for a while now and hasn't really shone in the last two All-Ireland finals. I think Feeney's ball-winning ability would be useful on the 40 in order to feed our full-forward line, who were starved of any decent ball for 20 mins of the second half against the Dubs. He also usually sets up a few scores or chips in with one or two himself, so he can create.

I would differ on the 'marquee forward' issue too. Every one of the other All-Ireland contenders have one or two forwards who can nearly win games on their own, if they get any supply of ball. Recall Cooper's performance against Dublin or Bernard Brogan against us in the final. The fact that Brogan got 2-2 off practically no ball (thought Cafferkey did very well on him, in general) made a huge difference to the game, dribbly goals or not.

The nearest thing we have is probably Cillian O'Connor, but he typically contributes most from frees (yeah, I know he got six goals against London and Donegal, but they were pretty lopsided and unusual games, unlikely to be seen again for a while).

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 29/11/2013 15:21:32    1519131

Be no harm yew-tree, Janes Horan said that's what he wants, the down side of stating that is that you don't win it, have you showed your hand, will it have a negative effect on the players ?

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8744 - 29/11/2013 15:22:08    1519133

realdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 2426
the down side of stating that is that you don't win it, have you showed your hand, will it have a negative effect on the players ?

I know what your saying but players will only be at a certain fitness early in the year too. I don't believe any team goes out in a league game and say's "oh we will only play 70% today"

I wonder is the motion to play the League finals in NYC dead in the water? Imagine Mayo getting to the League final and having to travel to NY again 2 weeks later for the first round of championship.....would create a major headache.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11549 - 29/11/2013 15:32:38    1519138

As 2013 went on I became very confident of lifting Sam. Really believed we could do it this year and indeed should have. I believe we left it after us in Sept for a variety of reasons which have been examined ad nauseam here and elsewhere. However if management can get things right and steer a steady course it is very do-able next year. But these things are in the lap of the gods and are settled by the smallest margins. So I could predict with equal confidence that Dublin will retain Sam or Kerry might win another. Its early days yet and championship football is a long way off. We are like meteorologists who can only give short range forecasts. How many years is it now? Sixty three!!! How many of the '51 team are still around?? May the best team win, I think they usually do.

pcworld (Mayo) - Posts: 549 - 29/11/2013 15:46:06    1519140

pcworld - What is so annoying about it is Dublin didn't play awful well at all by their standards. That said if Dublin had hit top form in the final I think they would have beat us anyway.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11549 - 29/11/2013 15:54:26    1519145

Mayo will have an easy passage to the 1/4 final.
Then they usually have at least one good performance in them in Croke Park. Depending who they get they could find themselves in an AI Semi Final and who knows after that.

See can they unearth some new talent in the league.
They should plan their year for the 1/4 final. if fellas have been injured or unfit they should not be rushed its the 1/4 final onwards they will need these players.

But overall NO I think they will fall short again especially if they meet Kerry or Dublin

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 29/11/2013 17:07:07    1519167

Its alright saying it in hindsight gleebo, but coming into the match nobody was saying start feeney for dillon. In fact carolan was ahead of feeney in the pecking order. As regards going forward, well dillon has gone under the knife, if he returns fit then I would start him every time. You mention feeney's ball-winning, well kevin mcloughlin, higgins, sos and the halfback line have that covered. Do we need another ball winner? Who is going to be the creative force though? You have to look at the overall picture of the balance of the team. People dont realise that he was playing hurt and it was a chance to play him. That didnt work out but I still say he was right to keep faith in him and give him the opportunity, particularly after what he did to dublin the year before. My own belief is that the cunniffe injury threw a spanner in the works. It upset the gameplan and we went down between two stools after that, much of it owed in no small part to cluxton's performance and to a lesser extent the dublin bench it must also be said. Let's not forget they are a good side who had a good gameplan. It cant be all down to our doing.

As regards the marquee player, well I have just given you exactly what won the games for both donegal and dublin, neither example had anything 'marquee' about it. 99% of intercounty forwards would have put away those chances, and the brogan fisted goal, although he done well to get to it, the biggest hand involved there was the hand of lady luck that A)the keeper came out and B) it dipped under the bar at the last second. So unless lady luck is a marquee forward then really that argument doesnt stand up for me. I know it sound good and it seems to fit our situation, but on closer inspection I dont think it has any foundation in what actually occured. There was little 'marquee' in the winning of those games.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 29/11/2013 17:40:07    1519176