I think both O'Shea's were sick, the ref robbed them, Hawkeye malfunctioned and Mayo curse all struck at once.

Two years in a row like...what are the chances hurlingdub!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 01/11/2013 15:41:08    1508156

I'll give you an example, Free Third Level fees getting introduced gave people who didn't have money a chance to go to third level. Everybody got in for free......even those who had the money to pay. All that done was create imbalance one step back, as all those who could afford third level began sending their kids to private second level schools, which actually made it harder for the poorer kids as these grind schools appeared and those with money could go to schools with smaller class sizes and enhancing their ability to get points. Everything being equal wasn't fair. But it seemed fair, and kept the status quo where only people from certain backgrounds could get certain courses. What should have happened was targeting poorer areas and giving free passes to third level, to create an even playing field. Equity over equality.

The example has very different parameters. But I will address the parts that have some relevance. The system was fair as far as the remit of the system could go, but the gaa has actually gone further. You refer to private schools etc but that is down to personal wealth. What relevance does that have? The only similarity I can see is dublin gaa being the private schoolers with wealth of their own, and them getting free college on top of it(a handout), while those without wealth still have to pay their way (no handout). Does that seem far to you? Isnt that even more unfair? That is the current system in the gaa, the wealthy were made wealthier when dispite their wealth they couldnt match the rest performances-wise. So your example of unfair treatment, is actually not as bad as the one you are arguing in support of.


If Croke Park had 32 million, to equally give out to 32 counties a million would that be fair. Yeah they all got an equal sum. But the dual counties are shortchanged straight away? Being a dual county doubles your expenses straight away. Is your county scarcely populated, if it is you have less expenses. If it isn't you have more expenses. Are there further problems, demographics that will eat the one million away quickly!? So if you have a big population, strange demographics, varied socioeconomic regions and compete in two codes your one million will disappear really fast.

Yes that is true. But you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater do you? You work out a fair system, and set a spending cap on a team across the board. Even with these flaws, the above would still be fairer than just giving 1 county, who are already raking in money, more money on top of it, is it not? You talk like this is hypothetical, but we can see the effects of the spending dublin can carry out here today. People are disingenuously talking about mayo spending 500,000, dublin actually spent more

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 01/11/2013 15:49:54    1508162

The Master I simply do not understand your problem with Dublin. But let me make a few points:

a. The GAA and the Irish Government did NOT give the DCB money!!! The DCB ASKED for this money.

Obviously behind this ASKING was a very clear, well thought out, detailed and goal orientated strategic plan!! The DCB have executed on this plan and are therefore to be congratulated, including all those at club level.

b. Would I give this money to other counties? At this moment NO!

Why? Well till they have an all inclusive strategic long term plan like the DCB it would be just a waste of money. And when I say inclusive I don't just mean Football and Hurling but also Ladies Football and Camogie!! Such are the structures that have been put in place I have seen the dormant Camogie section of our club turn in a vibrant juvenile section (winning County League and Shield titles this year). This also means a vibrant Ladies Football section! This will mean a vibrant Adult ladies section in 10 years, like how everything the DCB and the clubs has been built.

Huge resources (not just financial) have been ploughed into the game by the DCB. The basic philosophy is build great structures for kids (boys and girls) get them in, have them play football one week and hurling next week! Also using indoor facilities etc to keep this going all winter long.

This massive strategic push, mapped out with clear objectives on paper to get the youth of Dublin playing GAA (all codes and sexes) has been the reason the DCB gets money. IT FOCUSES ON KIDS!!!

This is why for example Dublin County teams have NO Centre of Excellence or fixed Training ground/gym.....we didn't waste any money on the County teams!!! ...as they were not the future.

Till other Counties come out with the same type of 10~20 year plans, focused on the youth, both girls and boys and both football and hurling then why should the GAA invest more in them than they already do?

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 01/11/2013 16:09:52    1508176

Actually TheMaster, if you read my post properly with my 32 counties and 32 million post properly you'd have taken two messages.

The story on fee-paying was to highlight targeting of funds, and you brought up Dublin being wealthy and are like those availing of fee paying schools. That isn't the case, Im just saying equality hasn't always lead to making things fairer. I knew you'd try twist that! My message was about targeting funds towards people who need them.

Mayo have made two all Ireland finals in a row, they are doing something right. But have they a strategic plan in place!?

And the 32 counties story highlights how distributing funds equally is not fair. You are saying throwing money at Dublin because they have healthy looking finances is wrong. See here's what you never address. There is a cost attached to strategic planning. But there's a payoff in terms of success. Success is relative to numerous things; size, structure demographics and socioeconomic conditions. Your spend is relative to what factors affect you the most

You ignore Dublin have a bigger social issue, widespread demographics that create financial constraints. Why do Dublin have no dedicated centre of excellence!? They use DCU' s facilities, yes, but they don't get them for free! Dublin spend those finances on infrastructure, coaching and development. Even with good sponsorship they don't have the money to develop a centre of excellence. Dublin are not Mr Burns from the Simpsons!!! All monies acquired get spent on infrastructure. It cost money to build and maintain. Bigger population......bigger cost.

Simples

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 01/11/2013 16:13:46    1508178

Snap withnof!

No centre of excellence as monies acquired get spent on coaching and development of underage with the payoff at the elite end if its done properly at underage.

Was it fair giving Dublin the money, yeah. They asked for it and had a plan!

Very good withnof :-)

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 01/11/2013 16:27:02    1508188

Master just looking for a another excuse for Mayo loosing

HandyMoran (Roscommon) - Posts: 327 - 01/11/2013 19:56:59    1508270

A good example of the fact that the GAA has lost its soul is
the pay for play aspect of the GAA season ticket.How can the
GAA in all fairness charge people who cant make it to
a championship game?What if they had a wedding etc to attend?
I think anyone who would defend the GAA on that is defending
the indefensible.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 12:00:46    1508975

04/11/2013 12:00:46
REDANDBLACK30
A good example of the fact that the GAA has lost its soul is the pay for play aspect of the GAA season ticket.How can the GAA in all fairness charge people who cant make it to a championship game?What if they had a wedding etc to attend? I think anyone who would defend the GAA on that is defending the indefensible.
The GAA hasnt lost its soul. If it had the GAA would be very much struggling and as I mainly support other sports that are in the main in competition with the GAA i cannot in any way say the GAA is struggling/
The season ticket has the right idea. It pays for all league games and your first championship game. The cost is very good as it covers all league games and the first championship game for a very fair price(some could argue too fair a price - €85 for 6/7 matches minimum)Even if you do not attend all league games or the championship game you are getting good value for the season ticket
So what if somebody cant get to a game. They knew that by purchasing the ticket they may run the risk of missing some games due to other commitments. How can the GAA do otherwise a nd make this fair?
Your reasoning is strange redandblack30

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/11/2013 14:47:14    1509077

The season ticket would be one of the fairer schemes of the
GAA until I read the bit about paying for a championship
game even if u cant attend.If you have paid 85 euro already
do they really need to do this? U could be taken ill in ur
sick bed and the GAA would still charge u? Ormond Bannerman
that is unethical? Why defend that?

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 14:57:35    1509080

04/11/2013 14:57:35 REDANDBLACK30
The season ticket would be one of the fairer schemes of the GAA until I read the bit about paying for a championship game even if u cant attend.If you have paid 85 euro already do they really need to do this? U could be taken ill in ur sick bed and the GAA would still charge u? Ormond Bannerman that is unethical? Why defend that?
The season ticket is not unetical at all.
Do you have any issue with paying for a season ticket and not being able to attend a league game as thats the same as the championship game which you are taking umbrage with
You could be ill in bed and are still charged but thats the way the tickets work. You pay in advance for tickets usually at a discount.
You dont seem to understand the system behind how season tickets work.
Thats is not unethical and can easily be defended. By paying in advance for a season ticket you are getting tickets cheaper than if you paid for each game individually. You are gauranteed a ticket for opening championship game. You cant be guaranteed any more championship games due to nature of the championship and how it is a knockout competition.
The season ticket system is fair and while not perfect is better than most other systems that could be put in place

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/11/2013 15:12:32    1509087

Thats my point OrmondBannerman why ruin a good
initative by putting in a terrible stipulation
that u can be charged for a match u dont watch.
Not too many sports would do that.The season
ticket has also been increased by 10 euro.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 15:17:57    1509092

Not the league games as I said a tenner a game is fair
enough.Im not happy with the championship stipulation
though.I cant drive so im trying to see if i can get
to/ home from enough games to make the season ticket
worthwhile.I think I can get to 6 of the 7.Ill have
to get a bus to dublin and then navan for one of the
matches.its costs a lot of money to travel the GAA
should bear this in mind when they are pricing matches?

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 15:23:26    1509098

If u buy a season ticket why are you not credited with
attending all national league games even if u cant
attend when you haye paid?Whereas u can be charged for attending a match
u cant attend?

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 15:29:37    1509102

R&B...can I have whatever your having?? It must be good stuff, goes straight to the head!!

You either buy a season ticket or pay match by match. Your choice.

So were is the problem?

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 04/11/2013 15:54:55    1509123

LOL its cod liver oil thats why I am a genius!! ha ha.

If u pay match by match u might not get to go to the
All Ireland final if your county got there.Why is there
no system that if you pay at the gate, tickets for all Ireland
semis and finals are distrubuted according to the number
of marches attended all year? someone who hasnt been
to a match all year should be last in line when
the scramble for tickets begins.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 16:02:07    1509132

04/11/2013 15:17:57
REDANDBLACK30
Thats my point OrmondBannerman why ruin a good initative by putting in a terrible stipulation that u can be charged for a match u dont watch. Not too many sports would do that.The season ticket has also been increased by 10 euro.
Not the league games as I said a tenner a game is fair enough.Im not happy with the championship stipulation though.I cant drive so im trying to see if i can get to/ home from enough games to make the season ticket worthwhile.I think I can get to 6 of the 7.Ill have to get a bus to dublin and then navan for one of the matches.its costs a lot of money to travel the GAA should bear this in mind when they are pricing matches?
If u buy a season ticket why are you not credited with attending all national league games even if u cant attend when you haye paid?Whereas u can be charged for attending a match u cant attend?
Do you know how wide the page is for you to type. Much easier if you type the whole way across the page
Do you understand how the season ticket scheme works????
You either pay for each match seperately or you pay for a season ticket which you pay upfront
All sports work like that with regard to season tickets.
If i purchase a top of the range season ticket(Category A stand ticket in Musgrave and Thomond) for Munster for this season it would cost €500. it costs €500 whether i decide to go to 1 of Munsters 14 games or all of them. All sports are similar
Why should the GAA ultimately put the price of people travelling to games into consideration. what organisations do that?
What do you mean by crdedited with attending all of the national league games even if you cant attend one?
You pay upfront for season tickets and get tickets at a cheaper rate

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/11/2013 16:02:50    1509133

A few times when I typed right across it put one word on a line and it looked worse OrmondBannerman.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 16:05:39    1509134

If u buy a season ticket u should be credited for attending 8 games whether you attend 8 or not.If you can be charged for attending a
match u havent gone too that is only fair? If ur county got to All Ireland final and you couldnt go you would be charged 80 euro?What
organisations would do that?Heartless ones.Thats my point its the GAAs prerogative to charge what they want I dont care.What I do
care about is saying that they care about fans when money comes first as that is hypocritical?

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 16:13:39    1509137

If you attend all of your countys matches to an All Ireland including the pre season tournaments ,it would cost mckenna/o byrne cup 50 euro,season ticket 85 euro,provincial semi final 20 euro, provincial final 30 euro,all ireland quarter final 30 euro, all ireland semi final 50 euro, all ireland final 80 euro. Anyone got a calculator?? The coffers at Croke Park must be full to bursting??

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1702 - 04/11/2013 16:22:52    1509143

04/11/2013 16:05:39
REDANDBLACK30
A few times when I typed right across it put one word on a line and it looked worse OrmondBannerman.
just call me ormond. Much easier to read and better looking when you type across the whole line

04/11/2013 16:13:39
REDANDBLACK30
If u buy a season ticket u should be credited for attending 8 games whether you attend 8 or not.If you can be charged for attending a
match u havent gone too that is only fair? If ur county got to All Ireland final and you couldnt go you would be charged 80 euro?What
organisations would do that?Heartless ones.Thats my point its the GAAs prerogative to charge what they want I dont care.What I do
care about is saying that they care about fans when money comes first as that is hypocritical? some teams do that and announce attendance as tickets sold not the actual attendance. See it often with a lot of teams that have plenty of season ticket folders.
But season ticket holders dont get all ireland final tickets.
The GAA are not being heartless at all.
You still dont seem to understand how the ticketing system works.
Money first is not hypocritical and anyway without money the GAA cant be run properly.
The season ticket system doesnt work in the way you are implying ie you dont get charged 80 quid if your county gets to an all ireland final.

04/11/2013 16:22:52
REDANDBLACK30
If you attend all of your countys matches to an All Ireland including the pre season tournaments ,it would cost mckenna/o byrne cup 50 euro,season ticket 85 euro,provincial semi final 20 euro, provincial final 30 euro,all ireland quarter final 30 euro, all ireland semi final 50 euro, all ireland final 80 euro. Anyone got a calculator?? The coffers at Croke Park must be full to bursting??
Thats under €400 quid which is not a lot over the course of a year even with other assorted costs it isnt huge especially as this is your interest and its your choice to pay for tickets etc to attend games
Coffers are not bursting at any rate and virtually all money goes back into the sports the GAA runs at all levels

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 04/11/2013 17:10:10    1509160